Philadelphia: Athens on the Delaware or Filthydelphia?

That said, if my company built a hotel there, I'd be so there tomorrow.

However, I have nothing against a city called home by both the Roots & Winterbrief. (Two groups that have next to no common features between each other, mind you - one being an exemplary rap group that features live instrumentation - duh; the other a duo mining the fertile Big Flame / Casio loam for some hyper pop goodness.)

(Sorry).

You know, frankly, the big problem with Philadelphia, to my mind, is the very large screwed up, anti-social, underclass (and yes, the movers and shakers at the top who help perpetuate it, except that they are more invisible to me and they aren't pissing on the sidewalk, generally speaking); people who, probably rightly, have no sense of any investment in the city's overall future or well-being. Our public education system has huge problems, and I think if you look at that, it reflects the overall problems of this city. Where is the tax base to support our educational system? (With a former Philadelphia mayor possibly becoming governor of the state some time soon, that might get resolved.) You can talk about the past which has created the problems we have, but the bottom line is that teachers don't want to teach huge classes with disrespectful, potentially threatening students. We are recruiting teachers from as far aways as India, and apparently many of them are not happy with what they are finding when they get here. I see lots and lots of local education students in my work here as a librarian and it is not a pretty picture. Many of them are completely disoriented by the prospect of the most minimal sort of library research. Some of them seem to think they are going to survive without learning the rudiments of using a computer (e.g., looking something up in a computerized index).

Economics is ugly. On the one hand, I am not enthusiastic about at least certain aspects of capitalism; but that's what we have to deal with now. If the city is unattractive to businesses, there are going to be employment problems; there are going to be problems with the tax-base, etc. I have very mixed feelings about current negotiations at the Convention Center. I would like to side with labor, but I can't help wonder if it is being short-sighted. Organizations are not coming back to the city after having their conventions here once. Great, so where are jobs going to come from? "Fuck you" will get you a dying city.

I'll defer to DeRayMi and Jess for answers re where is affordable to stay. Center City prob. is the most expensive part of town, though it's cheap by Manhattan standards. Perhaps there are some affordable places in Olde City or Manayunk?

Me and the bf (Clarke B.!)are moving -somewhere- in August, after graduation and summer fun. Philly sounds intriguing...any advice on specific areas of the city to live in, or avoid at all costs?

"the people are just so real"
yeah, much more real than NYCers.
The downsides to Philly are that it is fairly large with not to good public transportation and it is a little less art friendly, but it does have a museum that is much better than Boston's and only a little smaller than the Met, and not too many small gallerys

The city is relatively easy to navigate though, I would agree (although I have little to comapre it to). Be careful crossing the street though, since a lot of people drive here as though they are out for blood.

Some of the people are real, some aren't. You can't know for sure until you try unscrewing their heads to see if they are robots.

but till then

ridiculously cheap housing for rent or purchase
great local arts community
incredibly significant activist community
strong crossovers between above 2
big city that still maintains a small town feel (i.e real neighborhoods)
cheesesteaks & yeungling
close to NYC (and if you want DC)

problems - (tho some may have improved - i will bow to judgment of folk still there)
weak city services
evil evil evil cops
re driving: if you don't HAVE to have the car - don't. insane insurance and depending on neighborhood serious parking hassles unless you pay for space. Depends on yr budget.

re where to live Stolenbus (since revival had a specific question) -
I bounced between Center City, South Philly and West Philly all of which have bonuses and negs

Generalizations depending on where you are –

W. Philly is University district and packed with Penn kids. Move up (43rd to 49th from (approx.) Locust to Baltimore) is the artist-politico-anarcho-cultural Philly lifestyle. Big old Victorian houses filled with mixes of above types next door to (mostly black) working-class communities who have been there for years. V. friendly neighborhood.

South Philly - depending on where - close to S. Street, the Philly equivalent of G'Town or Village (always noisy, crowded by ppl you want to go away) also by Italian market (great for grocery shopping)is the Italian neighborhood, also friendly neighborhood.

Center City - prob. most expensive part of town (tho compared to other cities v. cheap) nice apts or lofts, proximity to many bars, upscale restaurants, bookstores, gay ghetto, relatively close to Reading Terminal Market which is overpriced (but nice) permanent farmer’s market in old train terminal - maybe equivalent of downtown in other places.

There are plenty of other nice neighborhoods, depends on car issues, what you're willing to pay & what you want (Gee, just like everywhere else) Hope this is of some help and that folk still living there jump in w/more up to date suggestions.

another philly specialty -- tastycakes! you'd be shocked how hard it is to find tastycakes in NYC. i didn't realize how "regional" a brand it was till i moved to NYC!

Good Philly pop bands over the years: Bella Vista, Jen Turrell (though now AZ-based), Moonlings, Skywriters, Snow Fairies.

words of wisdom from cinnablount

you are indeed correct, mr. appelstein. i just hit up the quickchek for some krimpets!

someone talk me outta this?

http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_209111900.html

Great aerial photos of Philadelphia someone just put up:

http://www.phillyskyline.com/glider/01.htm

I must say, I quite liked Philly.

http://www.philly.com/philly/multimedia/9627897.html

Bloody holiday weekend: 9 dead
By MENSAH M. DEAN & REGINA MEDINA

Man dies two days after shooting
As block parties and barbecues reverberated across Philadelphia over Labor Day weekend, so did something that is growing just as common in many neighborhoods: homicide.
Eight people were slain from Friday through yesterday, while the death of a ninth person, whose remains were found stuffed in a duffel bag in her home, was being investigated, police said yesterday.

A 20-year-old man was shot in the head yesterday morning in an alley adjacent to the M. Hall Stanton Elementary School in North Philadelphia.

The man, whose identity was being withheld until his family was notified, was found at 6:30 a.m. near North Mole and West Sergeant streets. Neighbors reported hearing gunshots between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m., said Homicide Lt. Philip Riehl. Police had established no suspects or motives in the case, he said.

On Sunday at 5:10 p.m., police were called to a home on North DeKalb Street near Aspen in West Philadelphia, where they found the body of Ericka Harvey, 24, stuffed inside a duffel bag in a second-floor bedroom, said Homicide Sgt. Tim Cooney.

The victim, who lived at the address, was discovered by her father, who called police. Her family had last seen her about 11 a.m. Saturday, police said. As of last night, her death has not been ruled a homicide and an autopsy was scheduled.

With six of the homicides taking place on Saturday, it turned out to be one of the deadliest days in recent city history.

At 11:24 p.m., police found Gregory Paige, 18, slumped on a park bench at 33rd and Diamond streets with gunshot wounds in his torso and head. Paige, of the 900 block of Sanger Street near East Summerdale Avenue, was pronounced dead at the scene. Police were investigating whether he was shot during a robbery.

Police said about two hours earlier, Cornine Houston, 28, got into an argument with a woman inside a home on Reed Street, near Broad.

Houston stabbed the other woman numerous times before pushing her out a third-floor window, police said. Houston then went outside and kicked and punched the woman as she lay on the sidewalk, police said.

The victim, who was not identified, died at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital at 9:57 p.m. Houston, of Sansom Street near 47th, was arrested and charged with murder, police said.

At 4:01 a.m., police were called to Callowhill Street near 61st, in West Philadelphia, where they found Walter Divers, 27, sitting in a car with fatal gunshot wounds to his head. Police had no suspects and knew of no motive.

Near 31st and Norris streets in North Philadelphia, police found Julius Pickett, 24, fatally wounded at 3:10 a.m. Pickett had been shot in the face. No arrests had been made.

Minutes earlier, at 3:03 a.m., police found Terrel Davis, 24, on E Street near East Clearfield in North Philadelphia with fatal gunshot wounds to his head and back. No one had been arrested.

At 2:20 a.m. police responded to a double shooting at 38th Street and Haverford Avenue in West Philadelphia. A 17-year-old youth was shot in the hand. Germaine Jackson, 25, of Willow Street near North 39th, however, had been shot multiple times in the torso and died at Jefferson. Police had no suspects or motives.

The bloody holiday weekend got under way at 1:06 a.m. Friday near York and Garnet streets. A man in his 40s was shot numerous times in his chest and died at Temple University Hospital. A 28-year-old man survived a gunshot wound to his leg. Police were still looking for suspects in that case.

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_top/Bloody_holiday_weekend_9_dead.html

Two cops shot in "good areas" in one week:

Shooting outside nightclub leaves 1 dead, two wounded
By Jan Hefler

Inquirer Staff Writer

Police were ready yesterday morning when a gunfight erupted on Ludlow Street in a crowd of about 800 patrons leaving KoKo Bongo, a popular University City nightclub where live music pulsates and the booze flows freely.
A week before, there had been a fistfight and an unruly mob had assembled on Ludlow outside the bar, at 38th and Chestnut Streets, police spokesman Lt. Frank Vanore said.

So 10 officers were assigned to the spot and they responded quickly yesterday when five gunmen began firing, he said.

Before it was over, shortly after 2 a.m., a 21-year-old suspect was killed and a police officer and bystander were wounded. Five men were arrested, and two handguns were recovered; charges are pending.

Police shot Lamar Bembry, of the 5400 block of Race Street, once in the chest after he brandished a gun and fired directly at Patrol Officer Sandra Van Hinkel, Vanore said. Bembry, who was known to police, was later pronounced dead at the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center.

Van Hinkel, a 10-year police veteran, was struck once, in the right leg, and was treated at the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center and released. She was part of the special unit assigned to the nightclub during closing hours.

Vanore said that four men had brandished weapons and that when police tried to move the crowd, the men fired on the officers. Two officers returned fire, he said. A few minutes later, another gunman fired a round, and was captured a block away by police.

A 34-year-old man who was sitting in his car in traffic outside the club was hit in the face and shoulder by stray bullets, according to Homicide Police Sgt. Charles Coan. Police declined to release his name. He was in stable condition at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania.

Coan said there were no reports of an argument or fight inside the bar before the shooting began.

The club had scheduled a Halloween costume party on Saturday night. Formerly known as Brownies, the hotspot is frequented by college students who pay as much as $5 for rum drinks. It is a glitzy place where lights flash, bodies grind and music blasts. There are flat-screen TVs showing sports events, and, on special nights, a live band or DJ.

Vanore said that the nightclub recently had been closed and reopened, and that city officials would be looking into whether it should stay open. He said it was unclear why it was previously shut down.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20071029_Shooting_outside_nightclub_leaves_1_dead__two_wounded.html

Body Pulled from River Where Cop Shooter Jumped In by Jessica Borg, Bob Monek, Alan Miceli
Police tell Action News that the body pulled out of the Schuylkill River early Wednesday morning, matches the description of the suspect who shot four people Tuesday night, including a Philadelphia police officer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also on 6abc:
Report a Typo | Discuss This Story | More Local News | Check Traffic

Get Action E-News| Newslinks and Recalls | See News?| RSS Feeds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When police fished the body out of the river they ended a manhunt that began about 10:30 last night. That's when a man wearing a mask drove up to a parked vehicle at 15th and Sansom Streets, and opened fire on three people inside.

A traffic officer, 44-year-old Mario Santiago, responded to the shooting, spotted the suspect's vehicle and pursued it to 22nd and Sansom Streets.

The suspect then got out of his vehicle, walked over to the officer's patrol car and fired two shots. Santiago was hit in the shoulder, but managed to fire his weapon at least once, according to Johnson. Santiago did not know if he hit the suspect.

Santiago, an 18-year veteran, was listed in stable condition at Jefferson University Hospital. His wife and a daughter were with him at the hospital. Santiago has two other children.

The three other wounded people were also taken to Jefferson. Two men were listed in critical condition, but they are expected to survive. A woman was listed in fair condition with a graze wound.

What sparked the gunfire was not immediately known.

Police say the gunman ran down Sansom Street to the Schuylkill River, where they believe he jumped in. Officers recovered a weapon at 24th and Sansom Streets.

A police helicopter, a police marine unit and the Coast Guard searched the Schuylkill River for the suspect. Police found the body matching the suspect's description at about 3 A.M. on Wednesday.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=5734839

(Obviously this second shooting was not random, but there's still always the issue of getting caught in the crossfire.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also on 6abc:
Report a Typo | Discuss This Story | More Local News | Check Traffic

Get Action E-News| Newslinks and Recalls | See News?| RSS Feeds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry about that.

Nice party, guys: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=70725604

I'm glad all that gangsta imagery is just in fun.

Another cop shot today:

Philadelphia Police Officer Shot
PHILADELPHIA (CBS 3) ― A Philadelphia Police officer has been shot in the East Oak Lane section of the city.

Authorities said the officer was wounded near 66th Avenue and Broad Street just before 10:30 a.m.

Initial reports state the officer was shot in the head and taken to Einstein Hospital where he is reportedly in critical condition.

The suspect fled the scene and it appears the gunman may have the officer's firearm.

It appears the officer was responding to a robbery at a nearby Dunkin' Donuts.

Chopper 3 was over the scene as dozens of officers searched for the suspect throughout the surrounding areas.

The incident happened less than 24 hours after an officer was shot in the shoulder while responding to a shooting in Center City Tuesday night.

http://cbs3.com/topstories/Philadelphia.Police.Shooting.2.479216.html

Yeah, this stuff is getting crazy. I was riding on the vine st. expressway to your heart today, and an incredible multitude of police vehicles were speeding in the other direction...when I saw the first group I thought that it might just be a motorcade escorting some vip(s) associated with the debate last night, but when they kept coming in vast numbers it became apparent that there was another police shooting. I was (sorta) surprised to learn that Baltimore actually has a higher homicide rate this year than Philly, though...

New mayor: Michael Nutter.

(Next mayor, anyway. Not until January. But he's no longer just presumptive next mayor.)

Three gunmen walked into a North Philadelphia grocery store on Tuesday night, to rob it. Only two ended up walking out.

Police say one of the three gunmen who robbed the store, shot and killed one of his fellow gunmen.

Officers say about 7:30 last night, the suspects drew their guns and barged into the store in the 2100 block of York Street.

During the robbery one of the gunmen took aim at the store owner and opened fire, but the bullet hit another gunmen.

The wounded gunman was taken to Temple University Hospital where he died. The store owner managed to escape injury.

After the shooting, the other two suspects bolted out of the store with a small amount of cash. They remain on the loose.

Great subway concourse photos:

http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/philly-photos/48419-subway-concourse-tunnels.html#post648997

hello, philadelphians.

i'm sorry to announce that a bunch of librarians will be descending on your city next week.

also, is there a subway or rail line that would take me from the airport to the downtown convention center area?

i saw Philly on a road trip that also consisted of Boston, New York & Baltimore and I have to say (as i did upthread), i really enjoyed Philadelphia. it doesn't have near the amount of museums and things to see as NY but i found the food to be better the city easier to navigate, cleaner and the people to be nicer. there was not the same charm of boston but was overall really impressed with a city i thought would be much rougher.
and baltimore was just terrible.

Philly has some really good food, some of which is borrowed from NY (but some exported in turn), but there's way less of it and way less diversity compared to NY, from what I've seen.

also, is there a subway or rail line that would take me from the airport to the downtown convention center area?

http://www.septa.org/service/rr_schedules.html

awesome, thanks!

Was there for New Year and Mummer's Parade yesterday. It was great (I hadn't been in over 10 years and hated it last time around). Food was really good everywhere we went, also.

hello, philadelphia.

give me suggestions on where to dine tonight. i'm on walnut and 13th.

http://www.susannafoo.com/chinese-cuisine-menu.html

http://www.forkrestaurant.com/

http://www.ripsneakers.com/monks/

hmm! yes! maybe!

i'm thinking it's going to be a pub, pints and book evening. nothing classier than a lady gettin' tanked by herself.

awesome. thanks. monk's it is!

13th and walnut? budget depending, there are TONS of great places around there.

Foo is good but extra-pricey. Singapore is good vegetarian chinese around that whole chinatown area.

I took my first visit to Jones (7th and walnut) for brunch a few weeks back and enjoyed myself immensely. great for brunch!

otherwise, i pretty much stick with the vietnamese places on washington and the standard tap.

BUT WAIT OH MY GOD.

if anyone EVER gets a chance, try to check out this place called Jovan's on York St. in the port fishington//whatever area. reasons why? 1) the guy (Jovan) has his elderly parents cooking all the food for him, so it's old school. 2) his father grinds the meat fresh for each burger he makes. 3) the roast beef has been marinating/cooking all fucking day and drips with delicious juice. 4) the goulash is the best in the city. 5) Jovan can make his dog talk. seriously-- the dog fucking talks. saw it and heard it with my own eyes and ears.

ooh do get some tasty beer at Monk's. i haven't been there in ages, because i always go overboard and end up with a 50$ tab.

yeah, i'm trying to keep it somewhat on the cheap.

i've had really great food since i've been here. i was pleasantly surprised with a korean place called "giwu" (i think) on sansom and 17th. really delicious bulgogi! i went to dahlak in west philly and the food was pretty darn fantastic.

also, i really like this city! it makes me want to look for jobs here.

http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/pennsylvania/philadelphia/restaurant-detail.html?vid=1154654628377

dude i live near monk's and will meet you there if you want to hang w/freak dell

sure! that sounds great!

are you hungry? want to go in the near future?

Philly is pretty alright, even if crime in the inner city is a pretty bad thing - my uncle works at City College, and has reported that crime is a continuing problem.

That said, both sides of my fam are from there, and I have MUCH love for SE PA.

EXCEPT for Eagles fans. Those motherfuckers can go hang.

Oh, and don't fall for the Pat's/Gino's false dilemma. MUCH better cheesesteaks can be had elsewhere, even really close by.

And there is a shit ton of American History there. Pretty amazing, actually.

YOU WENT TO DAHLAK YOU ARE NOW FROM PHILADELPHIA.

that was the only bar that would serve us when we were in high school. so many shit-faced walks through the wiles of west philly resulted.

cool. to be honest, i have like sixteen dollars to my name until tomorrow, but i can meet you for at least a drink at monk's or elsewhere. i am at 12th right now a couple of blocks from walnut

well, the Pat's/Gino's doesn't matter because everyone knows that Pat's is better, except for dumbo tourists.

http://www.readingterminalmarket.org/merchants/view/54

yeah, i got pretty drunk at dahlak and started playing lots of dolly parton and beyonce on the jukebox. i don't think i can ever go back.

dell, no worries. i've spent way too much on booze during my stay here. librarians drive you to drink, sadly. i think i will go there now, get some food, and if you want to stop by, that will be cool. or, i'm happy to meet up at another place in the area. sadly, i have no suggestions.

also, i have bright red glasses and curly blonde hair.

ok, molly. i will stop by there shortly.

i will be skinny unshaven guy w/grey jacket and fuzzy olive drab hat

succesful two-person phillyfap iz done. I owe molly much, much, much in the way of career advice, beers that my broke ass was too broken for this evening, and general I-can-not-emphasize-enough A+ awesome company.

any other philadelphia ilxors, step up and bring the love. i don't want to have to sop up baby ben franklin's tears for lack of your participation in future events.

i would love to the next time i am visiting the parents for a bit.

where do you live, dell?

i grew up in the city but my parents moved to the main line during middle school. i went to school in the city for high school (yeah, middle school was that bad).

anyway, my best friend lives in the k'n'a area, a block from the intersection of clearfield and frankford. i spend a lot of my time up there.

Hi, the table is the table,

I live in "Washington Square West", I think, technically, if neighborhood-delineation comes down to fisticuffs. Before that I was a denizen of Fishtown.

wau, your middle school set-up for a story. aye.

"k"=kensington? what is "a"?

hello, philadelphia!

i am still hungover. getting my ass to the r1 to the airport with giant suitcase in tow was a misery i never want to know again.

on the plus side, dell is great! a successful fap! he tolerated my stories of insane librarians and didn't seem to mind that i ended up consuming lots of beer. A+++ would love to do again!

kensington and allegheny-- a stop on the L.

sort of in the borderlands b/w kensington, old kensington, and port richmond.

wait but you know that.

i am still hungover. getting my ass to the r1 to the airport with giant suitcase in tow was a misery i never want to know again.

Oh no! I'm sorry Molly...

I'm glad that you (presumably) made it back in one piece, though.

Thanks again for hanging out! I had a blast. I owe ya.

Oh, no worries! It was totally my own doing. It was that Flemish Sour Ale that really did it to me. That stuff was delicious and dangerous. I made it back w/o a problem but sort of passed out before I turned any lights out. Whoops.

I am slowly starting to feel like a human again, and I can safely say it was a grand time!

fuck, Palin gave the Irish Pub cooties

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080927_Palin_grabs_a_seat_at_the_bar.html

Hey, any of you know where I can find Philadelphia Magazine archives? I'm looking for a cover story from around 1987. (Apparently baby-me is on the cover with my parents.)

if i wasn't dedicated to MPLS/STPL, i would move to philly in a heartbeat.

If you're off to Philadelphia in the morning,
You mustn't take my stories for a guide.
There's little left, indeed, of the city you will read of,
And all the folk I write about have died.
Now few will understand if you mention Talleyrand,
Or remember what his cunning and his skill did;
And the cabmen at the wharf do not know Count Zinnendorf,
Nor the Church in Philadelphia he builded.

It is gone, gone, gone with lost Atlantis,
(Never say I didn't give you warning).
In Seventeen Ninety-three 'twas there for all to see,
But it's not in Philadelphia this morning.

YAY

YAY PHILLIES!

ZOH MAI GOD HOLY SHIT

Fox 29 already reporting "celebratory fires"

but, I mean, it's already been like 20 minutes, so duh.

my heart is on broad street, my body is stuck in the san joaquin valley of CA ...

;_; ;_; ;_;

my heart is on broad street, my body is stuck in suburban New Jersey.

But TOMORROW IS PARADE.

I've already celebrated by putting the rest of the apple cider cupcake batter into party balloon cupcake wrappers.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/kevinhartnettPA/gGgz3n

'gorgeous' is going a little far for the penn campus, where i was last at 17 (almost half my life ago), but the foliage almost got it there today

Teh passion