A thread for "Howard Dean goes nuts" remixes

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You knew this was coming - hell, it's even a tradition. Here come the "Howard Dean goes nuts" remix tracks:

untitled from barlowfarms.com and another from Right magazine

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The ACDC vs. Dean ones on Stern this morning were cute.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha:

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― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone should do a Dean vs. Monkey Boy (aka Balmer) remix.

― Colin Saunders (csaunders), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Developers developers developers

― B61 (calstars), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Unleash a f#$@-ing fury!

― Colin Saunders (csaunders), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Adrenalin + open mike = hilarity TS: Howard Dean vs. Mark Madsen

― Jeff Wright, Wednesday, 21 January 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I know I shouldn't really laugh at Dean - he's a good man and all - but my god if that Barlow Farms remix is not the funniest thing I've heard since, well, ever.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 05:53 (twenty-two years ago)

ditto what nate said.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.kaiju.net/dean-hardcore2.jpg

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 07:11 (twenty-two years ago)

http://users.rcn.com/jaimeboust/dean/

― Colin Saunders (csaunders), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong and this does render him unelectable, but once again it's, whether or not intentional, a genius move to get the attention of people who otherwise would not pay it.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the notion that a yelping sound could render a candidate unelectable is both absurd and a sad commentary on what passes for political thought in our times. The fact that Howard's yelp made the cover of the NY Post today is mind-boggling. I mean the yelp wasn't even really that weird. Conan O'Brien makes much weirder noises on a regular basis, though admittedly he is a comedian.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

http://shampoo-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/kotei/pict/photo/skeksis_1.jpg

― Nemo (JND), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently, the people bitching have no awareness of grassroots or populist-style campaigning. C'mon, the so-called 'yelping' is a great American tradition!

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Um yeah but not at concession speeches!

CCCCCRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWWWWW!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not a 'concession speech' - he's still campaigning and wanted to keep his people's spirits up.

The whole thing is a bunch of transparent media whore nonsense.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Troma presents Howard Dean Goes Nutzoid

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

this is paul wellstone's funeral, v.2.0.

folks -- even if yer NOT a deaniac -- DON'T FALL FOR THIS BULLSHIT!! laugh up yer sleeve if you must, but DON'T contribute to the media pile-on. today it's dean ... tomorrow it may be kerry, or edwards, or clark, or (if for some god-unknown reason he wins) even lieberman. think about it.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

tad totally otm. Actually, I found Dean's "Star-Spangled Banner" a little more bizarre. It seemed so calculated yet simultaneously awful.

― Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 22 January 2004 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Tomorrow night, Judy and "Howie" will sit down with Diane Sawyer. Brilliant. I like her even better than him.

My favorite response from a Freeper...

"...and we're gonna talk to Diane and then we're gonna talk to Katie Couric and then we're gonna chat with Matt Lauer, and then we're gonna schmooze with Ted Koppel, and after that we're gonna have tea with Dan Rather...and then, we're gonna go to Washington D.C. and smoke crack with Marion Barry!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW!!!"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 22 January 2004 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

gabbneb, do you lurk on the Free Republic?

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4021146/

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 22 January 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a huge Dean fan, but all this seems like kicking a guy when he's down. It's funny but it's not THAT funny.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Who's kicking? I think it's great!

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly, I've never heard a politician so excited before - it makes me like him more.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I would think it would endear him to people actually. It reminds me of the thing Steve Ballmer did a couple years ago where he romped around a stage whooping it up, trying to "raise morale" or whatever. No big deal.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

No no, it's a right-wing conspiracy. Obviously the press has never jumped on any Bush gaffes. (The siren in that first mix sounds like Escape Velocity.)

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a huge Dean fan, but all this seems like kicking a guy when he's down

Well, this is a presidential campaign. You have to expect that the media is going to seize on any sign of weakness - and I think that they should. They owe it to voters to be merciless in their coverage. I'm much more worried about the media being too nice to candidates than being too harsh. I just wish they would find more substantive criticisms, rather than making a big deal because a guy's voice went a little falsetto during a speech.

(xpost)

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

If this was all that was at stake, I'd rather have a president that whooped and hollered every once in a while than one like George Bush, always has this thin residual deer-in-the-headlights quality about him no matter what he does. (It's like he got to be president because he fit the suit.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(Mind you, I feel the same way about Fitty, but whatever.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Good quote from a mailing list:
'such authenticity and spontaneity suggest a lack of submission to elite handlers'

BNW - the problem is, in many people's eyes, it wasn't a 'gaffe', and we're being told that it is 'self-evident' that it was.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Kerry makes a good point. Before I heard the clip of Dean's speech - when I had only read the coverage - I assumed that he had done something really embarrassing - because otherwise why would the media be making such a big deal about it? Only after I actually heard the clip could I see that what had happened was pretty meaningless. But it's difficult to reach that conclusion when all of the media voices are telling you it was a gaffe. After all, psychologically we pick up a lot of clues about what is acceptable from the reactions of others, and if we are led to believe that everyone thinks this was a gaffe, we're more likely to think it was too.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Anything coming through the press is coming through a filter. That's a given. I can't help but wonder if Dean were a right-wing candidate, how many of you would be upset at the press coverage?

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Dean is evidently all the media is talking about today. He's beating Jacko. Brilliant. The media is going to start treating him better because they know they have a good thing on their hands.

Tonight, he hits the trifecta - the NH Debate (MSNBC, 8), Diane Sawyer (ABC, 10), and then Letterman.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I must be some sort of naive news-ign'ant knob, because I can't believe supposedly unbiased media outlets are actually CRITICIZING Dean for his outburst. Media w/ a right-wing bias, sure, but are the Big 3 & CNN & all the rest actually presenting his "YEAAAAAARGH" as a unbelievable gaffe?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't stop listening to that barlowfarms remix.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, bnw, but I personally thought the Rush Limbaugh 'drug addict' stuff was irrelevant.

What prompts you to 'wonder' this?

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Better than being damned with faint praise, or nothing at all. (Bill Bradley '2000 anyone?)

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, it's not so much about 'right-wing', although the right-wing pundits are seizing it. Lots of people are jumping on it whether they're conservative or not.

Frankly, it's the snobbery of it that bothers me.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Howard Dean vs Bubb Rubb: FITE!!!

YEEAAAAAGGGGH vs WOOO WOOOO!

― phil-two (phil-two), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, yeah, I'm glad to see some people here describing him as 'excited' or saying it's endearing, because I was starting to think this was just another symptom of me being totally socially retarded and unable to read people. I was talking about this with a conservative friend (who really wants to see Dean get the nom because he thinks Bush will flatten him), and he was describing the speech as 'angry' and out of control. o.nate is OTM above. Also I don't mind the press being hard on the candidates, I just want it to be equal; thinking here of oh every time Bush has opened his mouth ever.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

contrary to what some seem to think, the press was hardly overly harsh to dubya when he was a candidate in 2000. c.f. how tim russert treated him vs. how russert treated dean. not to mention that this issue kinda ignores the entire panoply of professional shit-slingers on the right.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

This shit really makes me angry. Hopefully it might increase publicity for Dean and be forgotten about a few weeks later. But please, even for the American press this is a new low.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

More mixes: "Yeagh! (Lileks mix)"

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It's interesting to see how the media kind of laughs off Bush's innumerable gaffes and mangled syntax as kind of a quirky foible but nothing serious, but somehow Dean's yelp is rendered as a fatal character flaw. Personally, I'd rather have a president who can at least speak grammatical English even if they do reach into a soprano register when they get excited.

Also, I think that people are projecting anger onto Dean's speech, when it could just as easily be interpreted as determination and resolve. It's important to remember the context of that speech. He wasn't talking to a roomful of undecided voters - it was basically a pep rally for his supporters. I think Dean's response to this incident makes the whole thing a lot more understandable:

"There were 3,500 screaming kids in that room who'd worked their hearts out for me in Iowa, all of them waving an American flag," he said. "I thought I owed it to them to buck up their spirits and I was pleased that I did."

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Luster mix"

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

o. nate o. tm

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I think it would be a mistake to see the media response to this incident as purely being driven by the conservative punditocracy. There are plenty of establishment Democrats (and establishment Democratic media organs) who would be just as happy to see Dean stumble at this point in the campaign.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe I'm hitting the wrong sites, but I've checked cnn.com and the local sites here, and zero coverage of Dean's outburts. Where are you guys reading this from?

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Try Google news. It will give you a good cross-section of the media coverage. Search for "Howard Dean".

http://news.google.com

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The MLK Day incident was a lot more damning I thought. If Dean is going to attack the media when he screws up, then there's probably no hope for him. I mean, I sort of a gree with Tad, except that I think Dean has partly brought this on himself.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

well you can't hear it in print, can you? It's been on TV a good bit.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on! It's funny! News programs will play anything they think will keep people watching. This is not, for the most part, some anti-Dean conspiracy.

Instead of bitching about the media, Dean and his supporters should be trying to turn this to their advantage: make "Yearggh!" T-shirts, run a Dean Scream Remix contest on their Web site, and Dean should make a self-deprecating joke about it on Letterman, say that he had been watching "Network" and got a little carried away. Otherwise it really will turn into a Dukakis-in-the-tank moment. I mean, if the whole problem with the screaming is that it makes Dean seem angry and humorless, trying to deny that it was funny and hinting at dark conspiracies just reinforce that negative perception.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Dean already had the label of a hot-head before he hulked out. Why does uncocached excitement that looks an awful lot like a flash of anger scare people? Easy, think big red button.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a complete asinine comment.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on! It's funny! News programs will play anything they think will keep people watching. This is not, for the most part, some anti-Dean conspiracy.

I would agree with you if the media was presenting it that way: as something funny. But they're not. They're presenting it as a damning character flaw. The big question in all the news articles I've read is not "Was it funny?" but "Does it render Dean unelectable?" That is an absurd spin to put on the incident, and I'm not above suspecting the motives of some of the people putting that spin on it.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Any publicity is good publicity.

― if i'm to believe what i've been told (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Nemo, they're already doing that.

And bnw, you are just so coy.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

― cut bait yall (James Blount), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

oh man they're playing the soundbite on 'indie103' now as one of their IDs.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I would agree with you if the media was presenting it that way: as something funny. But they're not. They're presenting it as a damning character flaw.

Edmund Muskie to thread!

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Correction: Debate is on Fox News Channel (with excerpts on Nightline, maybe?)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

that's right.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

also, just got my email from ABC nightly news: In New Hampshire, one-time frontrunner Howard Dean is struggling to get his campaign back on track. One question seems to plague his campaign lately: What happened during Monday night's concession speech? Howard Dean and his wife sat down with Diane Sawyer today, to discuss his campaign and where it might be headed.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't understand how that's asinine or coy. Why do you think people worry about a cndidate's temper or ability to control their emotions? I mean if Dean wants to run with the unpolished outside image, then he's gonna have to take the hang-ups that come along with it. And one of them is, uncoached can be seen as unsupervised or roguish which can be seen as dangerous.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

again, though, I didn't see that as anger or a lack of control. It was enthusiastic and determined. And he had the flu and was wearing his voice out; he pushed his voice to the max and it went somewhere it didn't expect.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

There was something kind of desperate seeming about it, in my opinion. But I hadn't seen much footage of him before this, so maybe he always acts like that?

Maybe it just seemed weird to me because it came after a loss, and that's when candidates usually act subdued.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

And one of them is, uncoached can be seen as unsupervised or roguish which can be seen as dangerous.

Sure it can. The question is: by whom?? Because this way of thinking is unfamiliar to me, personally.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

If it was JUST the "We're going to New Hampshire! we're going to Michigan! etc., etc." would people even care? Or is it just the "Yeeeah!" that's problematic? And if it's the "Yeeeah!"? Would matter if it was just a shouted "Yeah!" or is the voice crack at the beginning that makes it problematic? Cuz don't politicians yell "yeah!" to their supporters quite often?

Christ I can't believe this is being dissected this much.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

diamond you GOTTA hear the "howard dean vs. 'sloppy' joe namath" mashup they're playing on the radio down here.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, that DOES sound great. "I want to kiss you!"

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ALSO: if (BIIIIIIIIG IF) the panthers win the super bowl and edwards gets the nod (hoping praying kerry doesn't get juggernaut status after new hampshire)(where dean's sinking like a rock - if he ain't got some clinton voodoo 60 minutes charisma to right the ship on gma/letterman/etc. he's toast)(and frankly asking dean to pull a clinton is like asking jake del homme to pull an elway)(mind you i'm still voting for dean) and the red-blue borders ain't shifted too much, maybe tom brady can be the dems' willie horton = dems' pick up TWO states in the south (people from south carolina refer to them as the 'south carolina panthers' - it's cute in a way)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

WELCOME BACK CINNIBLOUNT!!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

there's nothing on tv!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, six parentheses and four in a row -- you're making up for lost time!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

pti's on so l8er sk8ers

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

A brief mirage, a sudden vision!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

they just asked Dean about the whoop on the debate!

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

he mostly side stepped the question, said he had a cold, and talked about tax issues instead (after Kerry got a tax question; everyone else is getting tax questions, so it wasn't out of line)

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

pti's on so l8er sk8ers

noooooooooo!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

he's out of his mind. now he's pulling a gore and saying he's gonna start to show who he really is. hmmm...who is it that all of the "progressives" have been supporting? he's not acting like a grown-up, he's spent his campaign trying to be a bully and the bully just got his butt kicked by a girly man and he couldn't handle it. i'd be mad too, if i had blown such a huge lead. the democrats know he is unelectable. I am sure there are behind the scenes shenanigans going on to keep him out of the picture but then a third party candidacy still isn't out of the question.

― keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the bigger story should have been kerry's impersonation of a zombie when he gave his victory speech.

― keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

where you been Blount? I've been able to lay out a lot of political bullshit without your watchful eye on me.

― don weiner, Friday, 23 January 2004 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Tomorrow has an OTM point:

Just my two cents but if I were in the Dean camp right now, I'd be trying to pull a little ju jitsu--turn that "yeaarrggh" thing around, make it a joke, embrace it. Open campaign rallies with thatremix that's floating around the 'net. Hand out t-shirts to volunteers which just say "YEEAAARRRGGH" across the front. Maybe have Dean open speeches with some mildly self-deprecating joke: "I've taken a lot of kidding for my speech in Iowa--but if you think *I* was hollering then, wait till *you* get the bill for Bush's spending spree!"
You can't make it go away, but you can turn it around.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Flip it; reverse it, etc.

― ModJ (ModJ), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

The top ten list on Letterman last night was "ten ways I can save my campaign" read by Howard Dean. My favorites were:

"switch to decaf"

and

"less crazy red-faced rants"

He smiled at the end. I think he's doing well enough to deal with this and maintain both humor & dignity.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, Tom Tomorrow and I had a mind-meld!

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf. http://www.deangoesnuts.com/

― Colin Saunders (csaunders), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Pft. I doubt Bush could even properly pronounce "YEARRRRRGH". He'd probably wind up stammering a bit before muttering "yogurt".

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah fuck the more I think about this the more it pisses me off that they're making a big deal about it, if you watch the whole speach it makes sense. What the hell, people aren't supposed to get excited any more? At least dean seems jazzed up at the prospect of becoming president, Leiberman and Kerry look like they couldn't care less.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I AM A WEREWORLF HOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLLYEEAAAAAGGGGH!

― howard deanly, Saturday, 24 January 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

This site has video streams of the complete speech and it's pretty amazing to see what really happened compared with how the media is spinning this into "Dean Goes Nutzor"

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 24 January 2004 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The speech sounds pretty darn good actually when you view it in the context of rallying the demoralized Dean supporting crowd, noticeably less 'nuts' than the remixes come across as.

Having said that it would fit in just nicely with the KLF's America what times is love?(uncensored), anyone care to do a mash up?

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Saturday, 24 January 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I really wish Steinski and Mass Media would come out with "It's Up to You '04"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Saturday, 24 January 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Howard Dean Amputates Hand To Show He's Serious:
http://www.thespoof.com/picstore/thespoof/armlessdean.jpg
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i1794

― Ernest P. (ernestp), Sunday, 25 January 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

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