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Va. Seeks To Leave Bush Law Behind
Republicans Fight School Mandates
By Jo Becker and Rosalind S. Helderman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, January 24, 2004; Page A01
RICHMOND, Jan. 23 -- The Republican-controlled Virginia House of Delegates sharply criticized President Bush's signature education program Friday, calling the No Child Left Behind Act an unfunded mandate that threatens to undermine the state's own efforts to improve students' performance.
[...]
As a result of a Republican legislative initiative in Ohio, the state commissioned a study released this month that found the federal government had significantly underfunded No Child Left Behind.
In North Dakota, a resolution sponsored by Democrats that stated the "cost to states of implementing the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 is as yet unclear" was passed by both the Republican-controlled House and Senate. And the Republican legislature in Utah is considering legislation to forgo the federal money and opt out of the program entirely.
[...]
No Child Left Behind requires that every student be proficient in reading and math by the 2013-14 school year. If schools don't make "adequate yearly progress" toward that goal, they risk expensive consequences. Some might be forced to pay for their students to attend higher-performing schools elsewhere, while others would be forced to draw up detailed plans to improve.
The problem, some educators say, is that the No Child Left Behind Act has introduced a different way of judging whether schools are succeeding. It is not enough for 70 percent of students to pass the test. The federal law requires that everyone -- including minorities, students from low-income homes and those with special needs -- meet the same annual goals...

let's see how much either side campaigns on this Act later this year...

― Huggy Dork (Kingfish), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

There's backlash from both sides over potential costs.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, a permanent, illiterate underclass is a LOT cheaper!

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't understand your point, Orbit.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, a permanent, illiterate underclass is a LOT cheaper!

I'm not sure I understand your 'comeback' Orbit, I was just saying that there are big concerns about this project's feasibility - I've heard politicians (and teachers) on both sides criticize it in different ways. I certainly wasn't taking a side or advocating a "permanent, illiterate underclass".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

some have said that if you wanted to limit class mobility, you would slowly erode economic support away from public schooling, using programs like these, f'rinstance.

― Huggy Dork (Kingfish), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

saying that finding a way to implement NCLB is too expensive,(btw NCLB is the 1st educational reform law with any teeth in it to come along in long time) is de facto accepting that the costs involved in dropping the ball are lower. instead of throwing up both hands and saying "we can't do this", we should reformulate our bedgetary structure.

There are also several red herrings in the argument. The bit about Special Education assessments being used is misleading. Special Education has separate assessments and the ability to opt of out of testing in cases of developmental disability (eg mentally retarded/can't do academics). The laws and measurements are far more varied and complex than presented here AND each state writes its own regulations regarding HOW NCLB (Fed legislation) is interpreted and implemented, so there is a LOT of room to figure out ways to improve education.

The costs of NOT figuring it out are social, and long term, AND very expensive.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The bit about annual goals is not true. Lawyers are STILL debating how NCLB meshes with IDEA (under recent re-authorization); and the California regulations have not been written yet

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The Damn Law is Ludicrous

The damn status quo is ludicrous

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, and I just have to say this. A couple of months ago I was in a meeting in a school district in a VERY AFFLUENT area of south Orange County CA. When I pointed out that the student we were discussing couldn't read a grade level, the District person said "well that's not bad, over half of our students can't read at grade level" and delivered this in a very matter-of-fact "what's wring with you why can't you accept this as reality" way. We're talking a white, rich district and they simply DO NOT CARE. The only way reform will be a priority for them is IF the gov't ties it to funding and shoves it down their throats.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

oops that is supposed to be "at grade level"

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Orbit, you still have addressed my main concern: that you were being a jerk.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

what about typing at grade level? Its an utter disgrace!

[I double checked that one!]

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the comeback was justified Spencer because you reduced the whole issue to cost (and I'm sure you weren't talking about social cost!)

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Those are typos. Sorry.

Spencer, wotta wanker.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

The main point of my first statement was to let add some information (that Democrats are also having a hard time with this issue) - there was no side-taking or reductionism.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Also Orbit, to my knowledge you have never apologized for, or even addressed, your outrageous behavior on this board from a while back - so keep your name-calling to yourself.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

you can get conservative democrats too. The fact that you get Democrat and Republican conservatives doesn't mean there's no side-taking going on. This very line of inquiry which halts spending in favour of the poor in order to protect the wealth of the rich has to be side-taking. It is taking sides against the least advantaged.

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

At the outset I wasn't criticizing you Spencer, I was pointing out the flaws in the legislator's reasoning, which contains outright factual errors. My comment on your summary of the facts was OTM. Your summary is that the main objection is too expensive. I say the overall social costs are even MORE expensive, and I guess that makes me a JERK.

and xpost "my behavior'? i don't know what your trip is, but my behavior isn't any different from the behavior of anyone else on this board, and for the record YOU are being a petty high-schoolish wanker.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

What about the criticisms raised by people like Greg Palast , who aren't interested in protecting the wealth of the rich? (Okay this article is pretty over-the-top, but I've seen others to that effect).

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

That article has some nice personal zingers against The Shrub, but it doesn't really have any real information about educational policy.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

criticisms like this You know and I know the testing is a con. There is no "better option" at the other end. are not criticisms at all are they, because he's not arguing with the policy, he just doubts that what the policy calls for will be delivered. Its up to the government and the education authorities to make sure it is delivered.

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

For those curious about the issues:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/nclb/law.htm

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

The Chicago Tribune has had good coverage of it.

7,300 city kids still wait for tutoring
Another No Child mandate not met

7,300 city kids still wait for tutoring (Tribune photos by Milbert O. Brown)
January 21, 2004

By Ana Beatriz Cholo
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 21, 2004

More than 7,300 of Chicago's lowest-performing public school students who were supposed to receive extra help with their studies as required under the federal No Child Left Behind Act have yet to meet with a tutor.

Tutoring should have begun in October for most of these students, who in two months will take the Illinois Standards Achievement Tests, the state's most important accountability measure.

[....]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0401210294jan21,1,6906284.story

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The federal law requires that everyone -- including minorities, students from low-income homes and those with special needs...

...and just plain stupid children...

― ModJ (ModJ), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Orbit "Where'sMyGun@", I guess you've forgotten a few (hundred) of your choicest posts from August, but some of us have good memories and notice that you've never owned up to your behavior. I overreacted to your first post; chalk it up to thinking you'd gone back overboard.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

and in California, where schools have you and your child's best interest in mind:
(from: http://www.sacramentolda.org/observer/obs12/enemies.htm)
(and http://www.sacramentolda.org/observer/obs14/retaliat.htm)
(and http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/Enemies_List.html)

Welcome to my world!

School Administrators Develop "Enemies List"

The Association of California School Administrators (ACSA) represents over 14,000 California school administrators. This group surveyed their membership to identify groups and parents who had been critical of schools.

The School Administrators Association organized the survey responses into a secret Enemies List. This document included the name of the group, and names of parents who were identified with the groups, and name of superintendant. There was a section for comments about the parents' subversive activities - what actions they took that earned them a place on the Enemies List.

Someone leaked the Enemies List to the press.

The Association of California School Administrators was confronted with their Enemies List,. The Association said they were just trying to identify "disruptive" individuals and groups.

A copy that was circulated shows that the report is organized by district, with columns for the name of the superintendent, the name of the group, followed by names of the parents involved in the group. There was also a section for comments describing the activities of the groups and what they did to earn a place on the list.

Targeted parents were guilty of "disruptive" acts that included questioning special education placements, filing complaints with the Office of Civil Rights, and objecting to the way Parent Advisory Groups were set up.

"The existence of such a list confirms the worst fears of many parents - that schools single out parents who advocate for their children. It further suggests an adversarial and repressive attitude towards these parents - a precursor to the retaliation reported by many."

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer, get over it

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

we need Sam in here to comment on this

― Huggy Dork (Kingfish), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yes we do. i've been lamenting the lack of Sam.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, if you know what we're talking about then thanks for the tip, if not, well then mind your own business.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

God, Spencer will you just get over yourself? If you have some inexplicable need to harrass me, take it to email and stop clogging up the board with whatever stupidness this is! This would be a decent thread without you insisting on derailing it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Interesting words coming from YOU. I'm over it and will not reappear on your nice thread. bye.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

you're having this one-sided-tiff right here. It is my business.

― run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

true. that's why I'm stopping. pardon me.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

this is getting really funny.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

So. Education.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Smeducation! (kidding - ok, really gone this time).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Neducation, then.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

spencer otm

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Blount! God save us!

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

what we need is adult education < / daryl hall >

― cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Neducation, then.

HUZZAH!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, now that he's *gone*, tell us, Orbit, what's his beef?

― run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Dunno. He'll have to email me and tell me.
I'm here because the thread was about Education!

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

you don't even know!

― run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:12 (twenty-two years ago)

de-railment complete!

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

she knows

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

(ur, well I took the "yeah, a permanent, illiterate underclass is a LOT cheaper!" line as just being a universally cynical statement, not being directed at anybody, Spencer. Then again, that's just me)

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

choo! choo!

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

no Blount I really don't and I never did.
i told him that many times.
if he cares to shed light on it, he can email me.
or you can email me.
whatever.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it seems to be this

Dan, Orbit's "Good Night Spencer" remark put me in an awkward position. I have tried to stay out of this, but that out-of-the-blue lovey-doviness really made me queasy. I had to say something. Is that ok?
-- Spencer Chow

from this thread

― run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

and i say now what i said then.
i'm no different from any other poster. get over it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

more info on the actual subject:
http://www.ed.gov/nclb/overview/importance/edlite-index.html

http://www.detnews.com/2004/schools/0401/10/schools-31658.htm
(Millions of dollars returned to Fed govt instead of using it on education!)

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 30 January 2004 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Are Dave and Orbit the same person? This thread reads too much like one of Doomie's old tag-team efforts.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 30 January 2004 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are people always accusing me of being someone else?!!!
And Dave who? There is no Dave on this thread!

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 30 January 2004 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

oh wait, I see the run it off guy.
er, no duh.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 30 January 2004 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway orbit won't standized testing mainly just fuck the poorer schools over anyway? as the richer ones are the ones that need less federal aid and get more from property taxes? and probably have students doing at least *somewhat* better to begin with?

and do you really think most schoolteachers (administrators i dunno) are that fucking CYNICAL?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 30 January 2004 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

huh?
just reporting the facts Sterling. Click on the links and read for yourself. i'm not here to fight with you about it.
in California, education isn't tied to property taxes thanks for Proposition 13 back in then 70s.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 30 January 2004 08:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Uh - not everyone lives in California.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 30 January 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

No Child Left Behind requires that every student be proficient in reading and math

Even the spazzes?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 30 January 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

dude Orbit in california educationis MORE TIED to property taxes thanks to motherfucking reactionary right-wing "taxpayer revolt" (a.k.a. keep the money with those who "earned" it) proposition motherfucking assfuck goddamn thirteen.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 30 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

How much Neducation can one possibly get? Is their such thing as an Associates Degree in Applied Raggetology?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Friday, 30 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

LESS FIGHTING MORE APPRECIATION OF MARK'S ZINGER PLZ OK THX

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 30 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

ready, set,

DOGPILE!

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Spazzes need love too.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Kansas City's schools got what they wanted. In the years that followed, the town spent upwards of $11,700 per pupil, more than any other large district in the country, once we adjust for cost-of-living differences. The city's public schools soon enjoyed fatter teachers' salaries and more teachers—the student-teacher ratio fell to 13 to 1, the lowest of any major district in the U.S. Fifteen new schools went up. Everything the teachers' unions could ever ask for, Judge Clark made taxpayers supply, to the tune of $2 billion over the 12 years.
Did students' test scores improve? Did the gap between white and black test scores close? Did integration increase? Much to the discomfiture of the public schools and Judge Clark, the answers are conclusive: no, no, and no. "The results were dismal," Ciotti sums up. The situation in Kansas City, he adds, is a major setback for supporters of increased public school funding.

― keith m (keithmcl), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Spazzes need love too.

Samantha Fox's breakthrough single in the US would have been considerably stranger with this as the chorus.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 31 January 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

it is a deep sentiment, upon reflection.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 31 January 2004 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

haha keith of COURSE more funding doesn't increase integration ya dope.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 31 January 2004 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Samantha Fox's breakthrough single was "Touch Me (I Want Your Body)"! Not that that changes Ned's post...

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh you're right, that was her first hit. Hm. Well, carry on!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone else read School of Dreams?

― ModJ (ModJ), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Samantha Fox in it?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 31 January 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

"The Damn Law is Ludicrous" -- Repub Backlash Against the No Child Left Behind Act

HUZZAH!

DOGPILE!