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is it really going to be dismantled?

D Aziz (esquire1983), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:03 (sixteen years ago) link

Fox is buying it, I think.

andy, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:05 (sixteen years ago) link

finally a FAIR and BALANCED view

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Both the BBC and Freaky Trigger websites have been unavailable for the last hour. I think this is clearly ominous.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:37 (sixteen years ago) link

that's not true

run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:43 (sixteen years ago) link

OK, it's back now.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:51 (sixteen years ago) link

is any of this true?

run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:52 (sixteen years ago) link

What - you mean is the BBC being dismantled or have I been unable to access the BBC and FT for the last hour?

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:54 (sixteen years ago) link

the BBC being dismantled...

run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, they're probably making changes to the corporate governance. I don't really equate that with dismantling, so no.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:01 (sixteen years ago) link


run it off (run it off), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:03 (sixteen years ago) link

Well that's the impression I've got. I don't think many people think the current system of governors is that great. Maybe I'm wrong - I haven't been following it that closely - you probably know as much as me. I'll shut up now.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Sheffield people will be familiar with the term

Blades Business Crew

Serious sheffield united hooligans

.....................strike me down..............

dddfdanon, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:07 (sixteen years ago) link

Ipswich people will be familair with the term

Ipswich Total Violence

(OK, I made that up and in fact when we supposedly had a "firm" they decided to call themselves The Spanners, why they did is anyone's guess)

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:51 (sixteen years ago) link

four years pass...

BBC blamed for attacks on Poles

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:01 (eleven years ago) link

wtf @ that guy

Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:04 (eleven years ago) link

Tories, eh?

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:04 (eleven years ago) link

Sub-Passantino at best

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:06 (eleven years ago) link

At 6 feet 8½ inches (204 cm), Kawczynski is believed to be the tallest MP ever to sit in the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:19 (eleven years ago) link

But the average height of doors in Westminster is six feet eight and now he wants ministers to take account of an increasingly tall UK population.

"Being officially a giant myself... you want to raise things which pertain to yourself and people like you," he said.


Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:22 (eleven years ago) link

Also I'm sure he said all this a couple of months ago somewhere else. Why has it come up again now?

Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:57 (eleven years ago) link

Oh, yes, in the Independent.

Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:58 (eleven years ago) link

He'll be blaming the BBC for attacks on giants next

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 12:00 (eleven years ago) link

I'd guess he has a point if he's talking about Tory voters mouthing off on the mid-morning phone-ins on local stations like BBC Radio Shropshire etc.

James Mitchell, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:42 (eleven years ago) link

Conservative Friends of Poland

Like Neville Chamberlain, he means?

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:46 (eleven years ago) link

Pretty sure it's mostly Channel 4 running the anti-Polish stuff. But it is tricky spotting the difference between Panorama and the Völkischer Beobachter most weeks.

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:53 (eleven years ago) link

EXCLUSIVE: Max Mosley confirmed as new Panorama presenter.

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:57 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

A step too far, this is causing as much kerfuffle as when the moved women's hour.

Mornington Crescent (Ed), Friday, 12 June 2009 02:58 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

the bbc does seem amazingly inept at covering its arse. it is kind of a symptom of a wider elite-class self-aggrandizement that the likes of byford and thompson think they deserve mad money, but it's still going to come back to bite them.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 14 July 2009 09:31 (ten years ago) link

beeb has kind of an impossible job in dealing with its critics, since they simultaneously claim the licence fee isn't justified because the bbc isn't populist enough and that it isn't justified because it doesn't provide enough specialised content that the commercial sector won't touch. i can't see that sharing the licence fee does anything to help except spreading it thinner.

agree that bbc bosses don't help the cause though.

joe, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 09:42 (ten years ago) link

three months pass...

is it really going to be dismantled?
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:03 (5 years ago)

Possibly, if - when - the Tories get in.

DavidM, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:07 (ten years ago) link

Has to be a troll:

Pay per view BBC news would allow the lefties to view their own biased news reports while the rest of us could choose ITV news for more impartial reporting.

James Mitchell, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:13 (ten years ago) link

this business about "damaging commercial competitors" really pisses me off. we should be celebrating the fact that the BBC creates quality products and services for "free", not requiring it to dumb down its offerings so that something inferior and expensive can maintain market share.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:25 (ten years ago) link

Whenever that comment is made, it is usually voiced by someone with vested interests eg. Murdoch. In America, Murdoch goes after Obama but here he goes after impartial news media. This should be a good compass for anyone wishing to locate the centre of power in any given country. Who does Murdoch go after in, say, China?

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 10:29 (ten years ago) link

yeah, you do wonder whether this is the quid for the quo of The Sun's support.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:34 (ten years ago) link

tories don't need any outside encouragement to go after the bbc, tbh.

joe, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:37 (ten years ago) link

So is the Mail anti-Beeb purely because of DMGT's regional newspapers? Or is there something else, aside from Jonathan Ross and the telly tax?

James Mitchell, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:44 (ten years ago) link

it's ideological - the bbc is full of lefties.

joe, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:47 (ten years ago) link

not only that, the whole concept of the BBC is lefty.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:54 (ten years ago) link

and yet they've employed Jeremy Clarkson, Carol Thatcher, Michael Burke, Patrick Moore (latter two mentioned just due to sexist comments made in past)...

modescalator (blueski), Monday, 19 October 2009 10:58 (ten years ago) link

Patrick Moore is very right-wing on immigration too, unfortunately.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:05 (ten years ago) link

and yet they've employed Jeremy Clarkson, Carol Thatcher, Michael Burke, Patrick Moore (latter two mentioned just due to sexist comments made in past)...

... and Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo and Nick Robinson and Quentin Letts ad nauseum

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:08 (ten years ago) link

Michael Buerk is a Conservative?

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:11 (ten years ago) link

Only when it comes to the BBC employing women, I think... women who get jobs he wants, that is

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:12 (ten years ago) link

sexist, conservative, racist - all the same

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:16 (ten years ago) link

Regardless of how many sexist conservative racist rightwingers are employed there, the very existence of the BBC as a huge part of the media landscape is a slap in the face to Tory free market ideals, so obviously they want to pare it back. I don't think it's all about Murdoch.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:20 (ten years ago) link

In my own experience, sexism is not limited to conservative men!

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:20 (ten years ago) link

LOL, far from it!

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:22 (ten years ago) link

LMAO. Stoya come to Athens, the means-tested defence of the status quo is happening.

— herd immunity for our time (@misslucyp) April 1, 2020

calzino, Wednesday, 1 April 2020 19:54 (one month ago) link


bam! Free bees! (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 1 April 2020 20:04 (one month ago) link

How Adonis never made it to the last 16 of the world cup I'll never know

A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 1 April 2020 20:09 (one month ago) link

fuckin adonis

Fizzles, Wednesday, 1 April 2020 20:15 (one month ago) link

Very normal retweet from Maitlis

crisp, Wednesday, 1 April 2020 23:21 (one month ago) link

Claire Fox?

A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 1 April 2020 23:44 (one month ago) link

Nah keep scrolling... Dave Rich

crisp, Thursday, 2 April 2020 00:00 (one month ago) link

They’re absolutely not letting up with this:

500,000 people could have died, by August, in the UK if no action was taken

Now it's hoped social distancing will limit deaths to 20,000

But that doesn't mean 480,000 lives are being saved, many people who die from Covid-19 would have died anyway

— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) April 2, 2020

ShariVari, Thursday, 2 April 2020 22:31 (one month ago) link

And headlines saying people died "with" coronavirus, not "of" or "from". It's a weird look tbh

a passing spacecadet, Thursday, 2 April 2020 22:41 (one month ago) link

I can't remember bbc doing death graphs at the peak of "nothing is done" or herd immunity as they labelled it at the time. All the info was there to see from countries weeks behind us. Just no half decent journalists or editorial leadership. And now they are in the embarrassing position of being bigger fucking tory boot-lickers than both The Mail and the Torygraph. Their politics department needs burning to the ground.

calzino, Thursday, 2 April 2020 22:59 (one month ago) link

Yeah they would have died anyway, so what

— Je téléphone à la police (@je_police) April 2, 2020

calzino, Thursday, 2 April 2020 23:08 (one month ago) link

BBC News 2020, The Day Today 1994

— Graham (@onalifeglug) April 3, 2020

calzino, Friday, 3 April 2020 17:07 (one month ago) link

Unsurprisingly, Boris Johnson's move to intensive care leads all the UK newspapers' front pages.

Have a quick canter through what they're all saying in our paper review, here.

Seems a bit off, given the context.

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Monday, 6 April 2020 23:50 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

weirdly good

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 14:06 (three weeks ago) link

bah but of course tiktok got there first -

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 14:07 (three weeks ago) link

Hah, I love that.

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 28 April 2020 18:41 (three weeks ago) link

BBC adaptation of Sally Rooney's NORMAL PEOPLE.

I'm afraid I haven't yet read the novel.

12 parts, 6 hours -- this is as much as they would give MIDDLEMARCH. Excessive?

It seems like it from 2 episodes, in which little happened. Not much drama, not much at stake, not much interesting said.

The two virtues or points of interest, to my mind:

1: intimate / sex scenes presented with a kind of tender realism

2: the odd tendencies of the heroine - it might be intended as 'autistic' to some degree, I'm unsure - to say very direct things and ask abrupt, literal questions.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:11 (three weeks ago) link

Re: 2, that was the experience I got from the book, from both the characters - the directness, plus a difficulty dealing with emotions, an inability to come out and say what they really, simply, feel towards each other. It ended up being quite frustrating.

a slice of greater pastry (ledge), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:23 (three weeks ago) link

Loved the book. The show is highly watchable (don’t think it’s overlong, most dramas are six one-hour parters anyway) but it’s missing a lot of the comedy, and the lack of interior monologue makes the characters seems a lot more vacant.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:28 (three weeks ago) link

I liked the book a lot but I completely see how someone could find it weak, I was a bit surprised at the universal acclaim. The paralysis in action and emotion caused by always overthinking everything was something I strongly related to.

Haven't watched the show yet.

coptic feels (seandalai), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:31 (three weeks ago) link

I think Marianne's pathology is down to an unnamed/unnameable systematic abuse as opposed to anything ASD-related. She seeks out cold, overpowering men as part of her compulsion to repeat. That's how I read it, anyway. There's something to be said about Rooney's politics and how we function under late capitalism but I think it's a bit undercoded in the text.

I watched the first episode of this. It was fine but it's too close to my reading of the text and all the power of literature to be nebulous and slippery is lost in the exactness of the screen.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:36 (three weeks ago) link

I agree that 6 hours is quite normal for a chunky, meaty adaptation - say of Dickens.

His books are, say, 700 pages long - NORMAL PEOPLE is 266.

Length isn't everything, to be sure. You could pack a lot in to a short book that would bear a long adaptation. But the comments above suggest that the TV version is actually leaving out lots of what's interesting in the book (thoughts, etc), while still being unusually long.

A comparison: Alan Hollinghurst's rich, brilliant THE LINE OF BEAUTY is 500pp - the excellent adaptation (2006) was 3 hours.

Take a brilliant, rich book of say 250pp: MRS DALLOWAY, TO THE LIGHTHOUSE. Can I see the BBC stretching those to 6 hours? I can't - in fact I can more easily imagine them as 2 hours over 2 nights.

None of it would matter at all if the length worked well for the adaptation but my sense is that the length is stretching it too thin, with too little happening.

But OK, it can be treated as a formal experiment of its own, an exercise in slower drama.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:46 (three weeks ago) link

I don't think the BBC3 strand is the place for anything formal or experimental.

clap for content-providers (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 09:52 (three weeks ago) link

Been watching a couple of these each night with our tea the past few days and yeah it does feel dragged out a bit but there is somethingcompelling about it. Gf has zero patience for any "arty farty" stuff (her words) but is sufficiently gripped to stick with this. Good low key acting at least, particularly from the lead guy, reminds me of plenty of Irish pals I had at uni

or something, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 10:08 (three weeks ago) link

Feel like Sally Rooney is one of those novelists where any decent adaptation would have to give it plenty of time, so much in her writing is in the gaps between what the characters do and do not say, a good director could do a lot with that, and the onscreen relationship does need to proceed slowly in order to make the subtleties of that work, slower than it does in the book.

6hrs does feel excessive mind, but it's not as if any of us are short on time right now.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 10:24 (three weeks ago) link

Haven't seen any of this yet but looking forward to starting it tonight, even if Conversations With Friends might possibly have made the better adaptation. Does it merit its own thread? Just realised there isn't a Sally Rooney thread at all.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 10:26 (three weeks ago) link


Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 10:33 (three weeks ago) link

it's not as if any of us are short on time right now
cough cough lots of people, me included, have far less free time due to the current restrictions. I'm still reading a book I bought before Christmas.

kinder, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 12:02 (three weeks ago) link

I was surprised to find no SR thread on either ILB or ILE.

I agree with Kinder -- puzzled by the very prevalent idea that everyone has more time; my experience is that some people have less time.

What is true for me, though (maybe it's what DC meant), is that with not going anywhere in the evening I am watching more film & TV at that time of the day.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 12:59 (three weeks ago) link

Yes lots of people I know have home schooling constraints piled on top of work issues as well, but I'm not sure that a serialised drama being six hours rather than three is going to make much difference to that. We are going to be at the stage soon enough when broadcasters run out of new drama to show, and potentially months of lockdown ahead.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 13:15 (three weeks ago) link

hopefully we can get a lot more webcam shows of celebrities talking to their celebrity mates about being a celebrity during a lockdown just like the little people

clap for content-providers (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 13:35 (three weeks ago) link

I’ve been watching this during my seven-month-olds lunchtime naps

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 14:09 (three weeks ago) link

> when broadcasters run out of new drama to show

70+ years of archive, there's got to be something worth repeating in that. let people vote for it. but split it into bbc1 / bbc2 / bbc4 so i don't have to watch del-boy fall through the bar again.

koogs, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 16:09 (three weeks ago) link

(have the archers got covid-19 yet?)

koogs, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 16:10 (three weeks ago) link

they’re only showing a couple episodes a week to stretch it out

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 16:24 (three weeks ago) link

I'm not bothered about NORMAL PEOPLE being longer or shorter in relation to the pandemic.

I just think it's long by normal standards, eg cf metrics given above. And this will affect viewing experience - just as if the book were 600pp about the same material it would be a different reading experience.

I agree with Koogs that they should really start showing more good old material. Maybe they're already doing that to a degree. They did show WOLF HALL but I suppose that was in relation to the recent novel. They could go much, much further back. BBC4 in particular could show tons of old PLAYS FOR TODAY and 1960s DR WHO. Or start with BOYS FROM THE BLACKSTUFF.

I agree with Vague that people talking to each other by computer is not making for good TV. Nor is Gary Lineker.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 16:51 (three weeks ago) link

they are advertising new old things on iplayer, comedy box sets. but the comedy is absolutely fabulous and extras. and nighty night, and french and saunders. and 9 series of 2 packets of crisps.

(and some good things too)

koogs, Wednesday, 29 April 2020 19:40 (three weeks ago) link

I watched the first episode last night and it appears to be progressing at about the right pace. Adaptations - especially of big 19th Century novels - tend to truncate scenes and focus on key moments. The average length of a scene in a BBC Dickens adaptation is pretty short, whole chapters are usually condensed into a couple of minutes, and the adaptations themselves don't especially suffer from that.

But that approach would kill Normal People stone dead - without any interior monologue the relationship between the two main characters, the awkwardness and everything unspoken between them, needs time and space to convey itself to the viewer. It felt unhurried rather than padded out, although that may change later in the series. It's based around five or six fairly discrete moments in time IIRC and every one of those could easily get at least an episode.

Not seen either of the two leads before but they were exceptionally well-cast, the guy that plays Connell especially.

Matt DC, Thursday, 30 April 2020 16:36 (three weeks ago) link

My feelings FWIW after 7 episode, 3.5 hours:

First hour rather frustrating, slow, not going anywhere very interesting.

Episode 3-5 then picked up greatly for me - perhaps just because it was Dublin and TCD and I enjoy seeing these familiar places. A little bit of the content of their interests was filled in also, eg: his English seminars.

By episode 7 I can still see the indulgent appeal but I'm starting to find the on-off relationship rather ridiculous as the basis of a drama - it could go on literally forever (like a soap opera I suppose).

There is a very strong sense of a drama about almost nothing - two people who are blessed with success (in episode 7 literally almost the only ones in the prestigious college to get prestigious scholarships) getting alternately moody about how much they like each other. I've perhaps never seen a more 'first world problems' story.

But then, I think part of me likes this, because I'd often like dramas to be more realistic and more about ordinary nuances. There are aspects of the relationship that are very recognizable to me, and thus offer insights. The sex scenes are part of this too. All this connects to the unusual length of the series, ie: I can see the case for making it so long, and maybe other series should be equally stretched out for better effect.

I have found, though, that Marianne has started to irritate me a lot. Connell remains more likeable perhaps. His restraint, refusal to engage, tendency to deflect, is well played and recognizable. I also quite like the fact that he combines being PHYSICALLY STRONG with (apparently) being intelligent - which means he has the best of both worlds (see above re: lack of problems and tensions) but also sort of avoids a stereotype of the sensitive weakling or the insensitive big oaf.

the pinefox, Saturday, 2 May 2020 08:02 (three weeks ago) link

PS: an exception to the 'no real problems': Marianne has a brother who is universally horrible. In episode 7 it's explained that he's horrible because he's jealous of her success. But he was horrible before, when she was consider an oddball. His nastiness adds some 'jeopardy' and tension to the mix, OK - but it's so extreme, inexplicable, absolute, that it's out of kilter to everything else, like the basically realistic TCD crowd; it doesn't fit.

the pinefox, Saturday, 2 May 2020 08:59 (three weeks ago) link

It's not that she is someone with no real problems (far from it) it's that those problems are never ever talked about because the two main characters are completely emotionally inarticulate.

Matt DC, Saturday, 2 May 2020 11:55 (three weeks ago) link

(It may be that the adaptation has changed or dispensed with some key stuff in her past, I'll shut up until I've seen the whole thing)

Matt DC, Saturday, 2 May 2020 12:15 (three weeks ago) link

LOL BBC website...

The increase brings Russia's total number of coronavirus cases to 134,686, the seventh highest tally in the world.

But Russia's mortality rate remains low relative to other countries, such as the US, Italy and Spain.

Though maybe I shouldn't be laughing.

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 19:47 (three weeks ago) link

A week from now that'll be "low relative to, er, the US".

The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 19:48 (three weeks ago) link

One day I heard this rolling WS news report on how the French economy hasn't been fucked this much since '46. Yeah quelle surprise.. I wonder if this is happening anywhere else.

calzino, Sunday, 3 May 2020 20:21 (three weeks ago) link

I've only watched 2 eps of Normal People, I'm assuming things actually happen in this at some point? I do actually like it, I'm mildly confused by how old they're meant to be (took til the end of ep 2 to twig that Dublin Murders cop was his mum not his sister). So far nearly everything Marianne has said has been about how she's not like the other girls too, yet seemingly confident. Perhaps that's less obvious in the book, idk? Anyway I'm sticking with it...

kinder, Sunday, 3 May 2020 20:52 (three weeks ago) link

Yes, similar reactions to you, Kinder. I have 2.5 hours to go in this and will finally be able to get the measure of it after that - maybe end of this week. FWIW I do think that the episodes after the first two are an improvement.

the pinefox, Monday, 4 May 2020 09:33 (three weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...

the 80s tv adaptation of Brideshead Revisited is 11 episodes and runs 12 hours (first and last episodes are over 90 minutes).

the first six and last six episodes of Normal People are directed by different people and the first six seem to me to be much better crafted/ more aesthetically interesting. I really liked the bulk of it but the last few episodes strained my credulity and by the end I had completely soured on it to the extent that when I caught the Italian villa on terrestrial tv I was actually intensely irritated by it's solipsism and, imo, needless cruelty.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 24 May 2020 23:18 (yesterday) link

Italian villa episode, that is.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Sunday, 24 May 2020 23:20 (yesterday) link

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