North Korea claims on "Brink of Nuclear War" with US

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Says here. Mere pre-Cheney-visit posturing?

g@bbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 9 April 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Most disturbing.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 9 April 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

February 26, 2003?

(Jon L), Friday, 9 April 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.canoe.ca/MovieImagesS/starwars4_160.jpg

Quite disturbing

ModJ (ModJ), Friday, 9 April 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

April 10, 2004

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.space-debris.com/stwars_guinness_pink.jpg

Most disturbing

ModJ (ModJ), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...
And again.

Maria D. (Maria D.), Monday, 19 June 2006 02:02 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.stjosephsandcalry.ie/images/Saint%20Patrick%20B.jpg

lf (lfam), Monday, 19 June 2006 02:36 (nineteen years ago)

North Korea lies when it opens its eyes in the morning. It lies whenever it breathes. It even lies when it tells the truth. It is the lyingest country this side of all the other lying liars in every other country, plus Antarctica.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 19 June 2006 03:48 (nineteen years ago)

They have no oil = Executive office could not give one shit

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 19 June 2006 03:52 (nineteen years ago)

they also have nukes = they ain't gettin' invaded

kingfish du lac (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 19 June 2006 04:19 (nineteen years ago)

http://mishami.image.pbase.com/u41/itj12345/large/33247324.185_8581.jpg

Up, uh, DUDE. North Korea has, like, NO guards guarding the border right now... GET IN DERE!

aDOring NUTbians (donut), Monday, 19 June 2006 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

NY Times
North Koreans Are Reported Closer to a Missile Test
WASHINGTON, June 18 — North Korea appears to have completed fueling a long-range ballistic missile, American officials said Sunday, a move that greatly increases the probability that it will go ahead with its first important test launching in eight years.

A senior American official said that intelligence from satellite photographs suggested that booster rockets had been loaded onto a launching pad, and liquid-fuel tanks fitted to a missile at a site on North Korea's remote east coast.

While there have been steady reports in recent days about preparations for a test, fueling is regarded as a critical step as well as a probable bellwether of North Korea's intentions. Siphoning the liquid fuel out of a missile is a complex undertaking.

"Yes, looks like all systems are 'go' and fueling appears to be done," said the official who discussed the matter only after being promised anonymity because he was addressing delicate diplomatic and intelligence issues. A second senior official, who declined to speak on the record for similar reasons, also indicated that the United States believed the missile had been fueled.

A launching would be a milestone in the North's missile capacity and effectively scrap a moratorium on such tests declared by the North Koreans after their last test in 1998. Moreover, a launching would have enormous importance for American security because it would be North Korea's first flight test of a new long-range missile that might eventually have the capacity to strike the United States.

A launching could also ignite a political chain reaction in Japan, the United States and China, which have been trying to re-engage North Korea in stalled talks about its nuclear weapons program. The Bush administration might step up financing for missile defense; Japan might increase its missile defense efforts as well, while militant Japanese politicians might push to reconsider the nation's nuclear weapons options. Such moves would most likely alienate China.

The reported fueling of the missile has set off a flurry of diplomatic activity, as officials from the United States, Japan and China worked furiously to try to forestall a launching. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke to her Japanese and Chinese counterparts this weekend, urging the Chinese, in particular, to try to press North Korea. Officials at the State Department recently telephoned North Korean diplomats at that country's permanent mission to the United Nations in New York, warning them directly against going ahead with a launching. Such direct contact is highly unusual, since American officials limit their direct talks with their North Korean counterparts. But "we needed to make sure there was no misunderstanding," a senior American official said.

American intelligence officials say they believe that the system is a Taepodong 2 missile and that a three-stage version could strike all of the United States. One administration official said the missile at the launching pad was a two-stage version.

While North Korea claims to have developed nuclear weapons, it has never allowed outsiders to see them. American experts believe that North Korea has enough plutonium for at least half a dozen nuclear weapons and has produced a small but growing nuclear arsenal. It is not known if the North Koreans can build a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on a missile, but experts say it seems plausible that they could do so.

"Assuming the missile is a Taepodong 2 and assuming the missile test is successful, North Korea would demonstrate that they have made important progress toward the ability to hit targets in the continental United States with a missile large enough to carry a nuclear weapon," said Gary Samore, a former senior aide on the National Security Council and a vice president of the MacArthur Foundation.

It remained unclear late on Sunday how long North Korea might wait before launching a fueled missile, what the diplomatic prospects were for averting a launching, or what the missile's intended landing spot or projected range might be.

In Japan, Foreign Minister Taro Aso warned that a miscalculation could result in the missile landing on Japanese territory. "If it is dropped on Japan, it will complicate the story," he told Japanese TV on Sunday. "It will be regarded as an attack." Mr. Aso later toned down his language, saying, "We will not right away view it as a military act," but adding that Japan would seek an immediate meeting of the Security Council if the missile were launched.

In its last test of a long-range missile, in 1998, North Korea fired a Taepodong 1 missile over Japan — a launching that the Clinton administration had warned against to no avail. American intelligence was surprised to learn when the missile was launched that it had three stages, although the solid-fueled third stage exploded in flight. That led Congress to step up its push for deployment of antimissile defenses. In 1999, North Korea agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile testing, and has not fired one since.

But five weeks ago American officials received satellite images that showed North Korea preparing to test a multiple-stage Taepodong 2 missile. Some Bush administration officials suspected that the moves were a grab for attention while Washington's focus was primarily on Iran's nuclear intentions, and a way to press the United States to agree to direct talks. But since then, diplomats have become increasingly concerned that North Korea indeed planned to conduct a launching.

"Why they are doing this, you will have to ask them," one senior Bush administration official said Sunday. "It is not in anyone's interest; certainly not theirs. For our part, we will not be derailed by their temper tantrums, nor have any of our own."

Referring to the deadlocked six-party talks about North Korea's nuclear program, the official said: "We'll continue to be guided by our policy of protecting our people and of working closely, very closely with our partners in the six parties. It is important in times like this not to give any mixed signals and to be firm and clear. We support the six-party process as the best means to solve what should be clear to all is a multilateral problem."

American knowledge about the Taepodong 2 is limited. In 2001, a National Intelligence Estimate forecast that a three-stage version of it could reach North America with a sizable payload. The first stage of the Taepodong 2 is thought to consist of a cluster of Nodong missiles, which are single-stage, shorter-range rockets; the second stage is believed to be a Nodong missile. A third stage would probably be a solid-fueled system.

There was no mention of a missile in a report from North Korea's official media on a national meeting on Sunday, according to news service reports from the region. At the meeting, officials talked about increasing the North's "military deterrent" — a phrase used by the country to refer to its nuclear program. North Korea contends it needs the program for a defense against a possible American attack; the United States says it has no intention of invading.

American analysts say that if a missile launching occurs it is possible that North Korea will describe it as part of a peaceful program to put satellites in orbit. North Korea is a secretive Stalinist state, and figuring out the motives of its leader, Kim Jong Il, has stymied diplomats for years. "It may well be that Kim Jong Il is getting a lot of pressure from his generals to verify the design" of the Taepodong 2 missile, said Robert J. Einhorn, a former assistant secretary of state for nonproliferation under President Bill Clinton.

But, he added, "Whenever the North Koreans act up, one has to assume in part at least that they are trying to get the world's attention."

Just two weeks ago — a day after the United States offered to hold direct talks with Iran over its nuclear program — North Korea invited Christopher R. Hill, an assistant secretary of state and chief negotiator on the North's nuclear weapons program, for direct talks in Pyongyang. That offer was rebuffed by the White House, which insisted that the North return to the long-deadlocked six-nation talks. The other nations involved in the talks are China, South Korea, Japan and Russia.

North Korea has boycotted the talks in recent months after the United States cracked down on financial institutions that dealt with the government in Pyongyang, and with North Korean companies suspected of counterfeiting American dollars and laundering money. If North Korea goes ahead with a launching, the already floundering talks would go into the deep freeze.

Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 19 June 2006 09:32 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks, Maria. I wanted to post that myself. I'm feeling pretty queasy, like, um, cold war queasy.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 19 June 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

In fact, I wanted to post the article and ask the pertinent question: what the hell is a "test" in this context? Maybe I'm an idiot, and need to read more about nuclear missile testing, but I just don't get it.
Educate me.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 19 June 2006 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

They're just testing the launch system.

lord pooperton (ex machina), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

tl; dr, is it important?

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:36 (nineteen years ago)

Do they launch something? or does the computer tell them that the launch is successful? Really, truly, I want to know!
Does our government know if they've "launched" something, testwise? Does anybody know what sort of tests the US is "launching"?
There are plenty of big, smart brains on ILX to give me a crash course (no pun intended) on this stuff.
So tell me!

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 19 June 2006 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

They launch an unarmed but nuclear-capable missile at some uninhabited island that is sufficiently far away that successfully hitting it sends the signal to some other country "see, if this had been armed and aimed at one of your major population centers, you'd be out a few million people."

Matt LC (flightsatdusk), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.funkyzilla.com/acatalog/Water-Rocket.jpg

Jimmy Mod: NOIZE BOARD GRIL COMPARISON ANALYST (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Reading that article, I almost feel like the best possible outcome here would be a missile landing on Japan (obviously not on a population center). A test is one thing and will make everyone nervous, but hardly enough to do anything. But if something goes wrong like that, then there's more hope that China, Russia, South Korea, (and the US) will finally realize that North Korea is getting a little too dangerous.

pleased to mitya (mitya), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

Then "testing" and "launching" are major acts of aggression, correct?
How often does the US do this within the borders? Who else has done it? When?
I'm googling info as well - but sometimes ILX is more reliable and quick.

aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

Or, to look at it another way, that kind of screw-up is likely to shake things up inside North Korea itself. Somebody in the country will have to be walking around, thinking, "WTF are we doing?"

pleased to mitya (mitya), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

US and other countries usually do it by sending it over the Pacific Ocean from Vandenburg Air Force Base I think. The problem with the last N Korean one was that they shot it over Japan.

svend (svend), Monday, 19 June 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

You think there's going to be any dissent within NK?

S- (sgh), Monday, 19 June 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

(Thanks for that link. Lebedev effing rocks! I love his stuff.)

Not really. But if all we have is diplomatic back-and-forth, then nothing will happen. Except perhaps North Korea building more nukes, more and better missiles, etc. I'd like to think the world just could wait out Kim Jong Il, but somehow I don't think we have that much time, one way or another.

Anyway, my thinking was pretty broad on that "somebody" up above. My first thought envisioned thousands of North Koreans learning that they had hit Japan with a missile and finally deciding enough was enough. But even as I was typing, I realized that was too unlikely. But perhaps there'd be enough people within the ruling class.

pleased to mitya (mitya), Monday, 19 June 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

You've got to look at the context. N. Korea uses missile tests and the like to blackmail the international community and develop missile systems for export. It's all aimed at survival of the regime.

In the past, N. Korea was able to win aid agreements by acting up. That pattern has seized to exist, but the N. Koreans aren't so in touch with reality. They hope that everyone will freak out and offer aid as a bribe for N. Korea to halt its weapons programs. That's not going to happen anymore though.

The reason for testing is to develop their missile program. They can sell the technology to lovelies like Iran and turn a nice profit.

Basically, I think the N. Korean government is absolute survival mode, but the leadership lacks the vision or courage to get out of this desire situation. The real danger is a desperate regime that is falling apart. In that case, the N. Koreans may attack S. Korea or Japan in a misguided attempt to unify the country, or the collapse of the government could create a humanitarian catastrophe.

Super Cub (Debito), Monday, 19 June 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

seized = ceased

Super Cub (Debito), Monday, 19 June 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

I think they pull half this stuff so they can get the rest of the world to give them some food and heating oil. Other than rogue nuclear technology, what the hell else does NK have to sell to the rest of the world for cold hard cash?

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 19 June 2006 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

Super Cub OTM.

Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Monday, 19 June 2006 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

Super Cub basically ended the thread, because everything he said is true. North Korea has been prepped for a war with the South for 50 years. If they hit the brink of collapse, you can expect a full fledged attack.

North Korea's main export is weaponry. Especially missile technology.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Monday, 19 June 2006 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

America and Japan have only one soldier to rely on throughout all of this...one man to infiltrate Kim Jong's palace and single-handedly defuse the bomb...all this and with the Patriots on his back the entire way there.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/150/solidsnakesmall0bb.jpg

Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 19 June 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

Based on the pictures from the link above, it seems NK's other main export is broken asphalt.

Just.. depressing. I think it was the picture of the beaches fences off by barbed wire.

I'm surprised they allow people to cross into the country from China.

San Diva Gyna (and a Masala DOsaNUT on the side) (donut), Tuesday, 20 June 2006 03:06 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/21/AR2006062101518.html

Persecuted Decals (ex machina), Friday, 23 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know what to think after reading that Washington Post article. They make it seem easy to just take the missile out without much loss of life if any. But you gotta figure that with the crazy leadership of both the US and NK, this would somehow backfire or escalate.

Maria :D (Maria D.), Friday, 23 June 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

I'd say 40% chance of war on Korean Peninsula.

Werner Herzog Netflix Quine (ex machina), Friday, 23 June 2006 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.mathdaily.com/lessons/upload/9/97/20-sided_dice_250.jpg

San Diva Gyna (and a Masala DOsaNUT on the side) (donut), Friday, 23 June 2006 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

"North Korea tested at least two missiles early Wednesday but has not fired the long-range Taepodong-2 rocket Western observers suspect has been readied for launch..."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/07/04/korea.missile/index.html

Rev. PappaWheelie, The Good Doctor (PappaWheelie 2), Tuesday, 4 July 2006 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

He's putting on the biggest fireworks display ever! Good to see he's salutin' the good old US of A on it's birthday!

Richard Baez (Johnny Logic), Wednesday, 5 July 2006 01:31 (nineteen years ago)

fun fun fun

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 5 July 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

till her daddy takes the warheads away?

the splash of latebloomer's napkin falling onto an ego in the sea (latebloomer), Wednesday, 5 July 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

US takes North Korea off the list

blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

So we can focus on Iran, perhaps?

Hurting 2, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)


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