Help language mavens! (I know this board has many)

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I'm a shitty, shitty writer looking for a book that can help me. Do you know of any books that are good for writing/gramma instruction? The ones I have been picking up aren't penetrating my thick skull. Appreciate any kind of direction. Cheers-

― rectal rooter, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

chicago manual of style.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

strunk and white elements of style.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what she said

― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Yep Elements of Style for sure. Also depending where you live there are often local grammar/style books to suit, eg here in Australia the govt have a book called the Style Manual which is a very good standard reference. not the most fun read tho.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Lapsing Into a Comma: A Curmudgeon's Guide to the Many Things That Can Go Wrong in Print--and How to Avoid Them

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't laugh, but in reading ilX, I pick up lots of real ideas. They might not all be proper, but getting your message across is what it's about, and I think there are many good examples. I wish a few of them were mine.

Now you can laugh.

― jim wentworth (wench), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Sam's second post, OTM. I don't know about Chicago, though. Great if you wanna know about the proper way to alphabetize Arabic names or when to use an en dash, but thin on anything about grammar or prose style.

― the krza (krza), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes but if you read that sort of thing it will perhaps help show you what you should be thinking about. Plus it's a great read.

― ...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Turabian/Chicago Manual of Style is a must for academic writing, but Strunk and White lays out the basics of clear prose writing is an efficient and readable manner. Seriously, Strunk and White is what you want.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Strunk and White are fascists!

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 06:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah fuck it. EoS is a good-ass book.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 06:33 (twenty-two years ago)

clear prose writing is an efficient and readable manner

They make no guarantees about typos, though.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 07:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Joseph M. Williams: Style

easy-peasy and enjoyable to read.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

WORDS OF WAR by Joe Royle

http://www.royledogs.co.uk

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

elements of style is a really good autobiography too!

― prima fassy (mwah), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want a sound, non-didactic guide, try the new Cambridge Guide to English Usage. Not out for a couple of weeks - I've got a review copy.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

?? For whom are you reviewing it?

― the wordfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's just a mini review for the Herald.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

You must post it here.

Perhaps I was wrong about you.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I would be scared of you seeing it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that the second nicest thing you've ever said to me?

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I could see how you might interpret it so, but really, I don't think it's a matter of niceness or nastiness.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

sob

― the tearfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know if you're English or American. I like Keith Waterhouse's 'English Our English' as a very sound basic style guide, and of course Fowler's 'Modern English Usage' is an invaluable reference.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

But you wouldn't want to take him too seriously.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

For something on the web, read George Orwell's Politics and the English Language. Even though some parts of it have dated, its central philosophy (to strive for simplicity by avoiding stock phrases and jargon) is as relevant as ever.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Theodore Bernstein's "The Careful Writer" is quite good.

― quincie, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

William Safire’s Fumblerules of Grammar

* Avoid run-on sentences they are hard to read.
* Don’t use no double negatives.
* Use the semicolon properly, always use it where it is approriate; and never where it isn’t.
* Reserve the apostrophe for it’s proper use and omit it when its not needed.
* Do not put statements in the negative form.
* Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
* No sentences fragments.
* Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
* If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is.
* Steer clear of incorrect forms of verbs that have snuck in the language.
* Take the bull by the hand and avoid mixed metaphors.
* Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky.
* Never, ever use repetitive redundancies.
* Everyone should be careful to use a singular pronoun with singular nouns in their writing.
* If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a thousand times, resist hyperbole
* Also, avoid awkward or affected alliteration.
* Don’t string too many prepositional phrases together unless you are walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
* Always pick on the correct idiom.
* "Avoid overuse of ‘quotation "marks."’"
* The adverb always follows the verb.
* Avoid commas, that are not necessary.
* If you reread your work, you will find on rereading that a great deal of repetition can be avoided by rereading and editing.
* A writer must not shift your point of view.
* Eschew dialect, irregardless.
* And don’t start a sentence with a conjunction.
* Don’t overuse exclamation marks!!!!
* Place pronouns as close as possible, especially in long sentences, as of ten or more words, to their antecedents.
* Hyphenate between syllables and avoid un-necessary hyphens.
* Write all adverbial forms correct.
* Don’t use contractions in formal writing.
* Writing carefully, dangling participles must be avoided.
* It is incumbent on us to avoid archaisms.
* Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do.
* If a dependent clause precedes an independent clause put a comma after the dependent clause.
* One will not have needed the future perfect in one’s entire life.
* Unqualified superlatives are the worst of all.
* If this were subjunctive, I’m in the wrong mood.
* Surly grammarians insist that all words ending in "ly" are adverbs.
* De-accession euphemisms.
* In statements involving two word phrases, make an all out effort to use hyphens.
* It is not resultful to transform one part of speech into another by prefixing, suffixing, or other alterings.
* Avoid colloquial stuff.
* Last but not least, avoid cliches like the plague, seek viable alternatives.

― Lee G (Lee G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

lee, I can't believe I've never seen that. Excellent. Am going to give it to my students.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The new edition of the Chicago Manual of Style has a whole section on grammar. Haven't seen it yet, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The Believer magazine had a really good guide to writing manuals a few months ago.

― antexit (antexit), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I love William Safire when it comes to language, even though his politics are horrible.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't agree with these as hard and fast rules:

* And don’t start a sentence with a conjunction.
* In statements involving two word phrases, make an all out effort to use hyphens.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the wonderful, and also frustrating, thing about English is that every rule has its exception.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not about learning rules, it's about thinking about what you're doing. It's not about never starting a sentence with a conjunction, it's about realizing that you're starting a sentence with a conjunction, and what that means -- that starting a sentence with a conjunction is the sort of thing you should try to be aware of. I'm not sure following Strunk and White or Fowler to a T is such a good idea, but they do stimulate you to notice what you're doing when you write.

― ...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree. Are you ill, chris?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

No, just unemployed.

― ...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not about learning rules, it's about thinking about what you're doing.

Yeah, exactly. For example, I start sentences with conjunctions all the time. I love that construction, maybe too much, I admit. Most importantly, though, I understand that it creates a certain effect that you want sometimes and wouldn't want at others, and I try to use it accordingly.

That said, I think Safire is too easy on the use of exclamation points. The woman who taught me how to edit used to say that you should use them as sparingly as if you only had five or six to use your whole life. I'm with her.

― Lee G (Lee G), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't agree!!!

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

On a message board I think they are to be used much more, or else it looks like you're trying to be dryly witty all the time.

That was a very atypical Nicole post.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It was.

Yes.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

While an instruction book may help a bit, the only way to become a better writer is to read more, write more, and always read what you wrote.

― Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a completely irrational love for exclamation points.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

They're so exclaimy!

― ...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with N's disagreement, actually.

And I think that twoword phrases should be oneword in a way.

― the blissfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

herehere.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with chris piuma.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

remember five words can say only.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

You're your own best teacher. The act of writing will make your writing better. Practice, practice, practice. Writing has the added benefit of making you smarter. A humble suggestion:

When you've finished a draft, use the search function to find every form of the verb "to be." is was were been being am, etc. In each instance, ask yourself whether you're really making a declaration or whether instead you've hidden your active verb in a passive construction or in a nominaliztion. This exercise will force your prose into a heightened state of activity. This last stupid clause is the result of trying to avoid "be."

― Skottie, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

That's interesting advice, though again, it's not as if you never want to use the passive voice, but you want to be aware you're using it and doing it on purpose, not just because you're too lazy to mention who is actually doing the action.

― ...in bed. (Chris Piuma), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree, --...in bed. It isn't necessary to change the "be's" but you really need to be aware of them. Sometimes something just is. But about 98% of the time, there's a more active, colorful, and powerful way to express the thought.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

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