The World's Smallest Political Quiz

Left-liberal, what a surprise.

a. Milo, I'm pretty sure that you can't think of any good libertarian propaganda
b. Do tell us what it is about this quiz that draws your ire
c. What's your score?

b. Do tell us what it is about this quiz that draws your ire
The laissez-faire (and civil libertarian, too) bias, for one. Look at the economic phrasing. Replace the minimum wage question with "employers should be allowed to operate sweatshops." The phrasing creates as much good-will as possible for the economic libertarian side.

The test creates a false dichotomy between social and economic issues. Every one of those "personal issues" questions has an economic aspect that the test wants you to ignore. If I answered just by what the test asks, rather than what I know I believe, I couldn't say "repeal all drug laws." That is, obviously, insane. Unregulated production and trade of narcotics? Thanks, no.

The fact is that it's specifically used as a libbie recruiting tool - "The ones who score libertarian will be amazed, even delighted, to learn there is a name for their beliefs. Many give their names for follow-up." 34.92 % of test-takers (on that site) have been "libertarians." Yet the party can't break .5% nationally? Hmm...

The idea that any kind of meaningful analysis can be made from ten questions is a joke. At least other (also flawed) 2d models give you a range of questions.

And finally, but at the root, any test that sets itself up as liberty vs. authoritarianism is flawed from the start. No one wants to claim their beliefs are authoritarian.So what you answer on the test, to edge toward "freedom," just happens to coincide with libertarian politics.

c. What's your score?
100/0 or 100/20 depending on how I feel about subsidies that day.

The politcalcompass.org test puts me at something like -9.5, -9.5 or "I don't trust the government, but I trust the capitalists even less."

No one wants to claim their beliefs are authoritarian.

I'll freely admit that some or many of my beliefs are "paternalistic."

No propaganda is unbiased. This really isn't a coherent explanation for your distaste; your distaste seems much more rooted in what you think of libertarianism.

And as for your shakedown of the bias involved, all polling and similar political research is loaded with bias; on this website the bias is obvious and unhidden. More importantly, the results tend to speak for themselves--the questions on their face value seem extreme and pointedly biased, but it's the resultant mapping that tends to be relevant. Is anyone finding themselves improperly categorized?

34.92 % of test-takers (on that site) have been "libertarians." Yet the party can't break .5% nationally? Hmm...

You are avoiding the obvious and drawing illogical conclusions.

The idea that any kind of meaningful analysis can be made from ten questions is a joke.

The idea that any kind of meaningful analysis can be made from the vast majority of polling is a joke, yet it's presented day in and day out as factual data to support a variety of insipid, illogical political platforms and dogma.

And finally, but at the root, any test that sets itself up as liberty vs. authoritarianism is flawed from the start. No one wants to claim their beliefs are authoritarian.So what you answer on the test, to edge toward "freedom," just happens to coincide with libertarian politics.

What is the opposite of authoritarianism anyway? The fact that you edge away from it is obvious, not some underhanded-ploy to convince someone of something they're not. Is that what this quiz has done for anyone?

I guess I'm just suprised at ya Milo. I posted it not to inspire "meaningful analysis" (oh boy what a fookin' cartload of lard that phrase is in the context of ILM), but as a something trivial to blow off a Friday afternoon. It seems like the only person who took it so seriously was you. Sorry to piss you off.

According to the site, I'm an extremist, but I was on the political compass test too.

I guess I'm just suprised at ya Milo. I posted it not to inspire "meaningful analysis" (oh boy what a fookin' cartload of lard that phrase is in the context of ILM), but as a something trivial to blow off a Friday afternoon. It seems like the only person who took it so seriously was you. Sorry to piss you off.

I'm not pissed off at all, I just responded with one sentence I stand by - the Nolan Quiz is nothing more than libertarian propaganda. You asked why I said that.

I don't have a problem with its existence or everyone looking at it or anything, I've got a problem with it being passed off (as the self-gov people do) as an unbiased, legitimate tool for self-analysis.

x-post - Don, the problem isn't with a 2-d axis, it's with the questions and where they lead you if you aren't politically self-aware. You and I knew where we'd end up long before taking the test - what the questions asked didn't matter. John Doe who sees this at a booth set up somewhere doesn't. The politicalcompass people at least hit you with a barrage of questions on specific issues, and their bias only seems to be a vaguely left-wing one that comes from being British. It's still a goof, but it's a more legitimate goof.

(That's ignoring the inherent problem with any test assigning you a 'place.' The left-right model is useful because it's just comparative - the terms shouldn't be used to establish where anyone exists with certainty. These 2-d tests that purport to replace it are awful, in trying to claim that you can be defined by two parameters.)

The problem here is that your rationale does not support the results of the quiz. It's not the questions, it's the results of the way that they are mapped that is relevant. And in that, it is accurate.

Also this: Left libertarianism

My rationale is based on the results of the quiz, who created the quiz and how it's used. There's no dispute that it's used as a libertarian recruiting tool, is there? The concept may be grand, but the implementation here - in that the concept is being used for a specific political purpose - is flawed.

Centrist!

You cannot draw that sort of generalized conclusion from this poll. It is not randomly taken and would never be construed as such by any statistician or researcher. It's merely a poll of people who visit the website, and given the context of the site, respondents are much more likely to be libertarian. In other words, that stat is only relevant to the respondents.

The mapping, however, is disputable on an individual basis. But you haven't been able to dispute that very well.

The mapping isn't disputable on an individual basis here. I don't know any of these people, I don't have access to information allowing me to examine their results. But mislabelling people as libertarian is only one of the things I pointed out as a flaw anyway.

Even if the scores we've seen here are considered close to correct, that doesn't excuse anything else about the test.

Is the Nolan Quiz used by any organization or researcher not affiliated with the American libertarian movement?

Or, as I suspect, is it there to plant a seed against the minimum wage? If someone's opposed to the minimum wage, they're opposed to it - the inclusion of speculation on the effect on labor exists solely to bias the question.

There was also a left-wing argument against it but I forget what it was - maybe that it was a kind of lukewarm, defeatist policy?

I suspect left-wing critiques would focus on it not being a living wage, and giving employers a reason/excuse to bottom-out pay scales.

Do you not agree that it's claiming a higher percentage of "libertarians" than any legitimate study would find?
Because I know how Google works, I think the results are predictable. In fact, the only claim being made on the site with regards to the results is “2,703,785 users have taken the quiz so far. Results are renewed after each submission.” Have I mentioned the FAQ yet?

The mapping isn't disputable on an individual basis here. I don't know any of these people, I don't have access to information allowing me to examine their results. But mislabelling people as libertarian is only one of the things I pointed out as a flaw anyway.
First you say that you don’t know any of the respondents, then you say they are being mislabeled. Which is it? Go read the FAQ.

Even if the scores we've seen here are considered close to correct, that doesn't excuse anything else about the test.
This makes no sense either. As in, “If the respondents think the sky is almost certainly blue, then the evaluators cannot declare so.”

Is the Nolan Quiz used by any organization or researcher not affiliated with the American libertarian movement?
Have you read the FAQ yet? Guess not. Additionally, this sort of mapping and the science behind it is used daily in literally thousands of research organizations.

Surely you have to at least question the wording of the minimum wage question? Why include the part about eliminating jobs?

Again, I don’t want to condescend, but did you read the link on MDS? Do you understand the concept behind perceptual maps? Do you understand the foundation of the questions used in research? Did you read the FAQ on the politcalcompass.org site yet? You also need to spend some time with the FAQ on the quiz page itself. Clearly, you don’t understand how the mapping works and why it is relevant to ask questions or put forth propositions that are extreme. Have you taken a statistics or research class before?

It's clear to me that your disagreement with libertarianism is the foundation for all your ire. There's nothing wrong with that, Milo. Just own up to it. Well, read that FAQ and then own up to it.

What?

It's the first hit on Google. Type in those words, hit enter, that's the first link on the page. That's exactly what I said, in response to your claim that the site should have far more libertarian visitors than normal.

"How Google works" is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Because I know how Google works, I think the results are predictable. In fact, the only claim being made on the site with regards to the results is “2,703,785 users have taken the quiz so far. Results are renewed after each submission.” Have I mentioned the FAQ yet?

Yes, Don, I was the one who pointed to their numbers from that same page. (Where do you think I got the 34.x%?)

The inner workings of Google still seem completely irrelevant.

This makes no sense either. As in, “If the respondents think the sky is almost certainly blue, then the evaluators cannot declare so.”

The libertarian-leaning results weren't the only issue raised.

Which, once again, is exactly what I said - even if the results that we've seen here are considered 'accurate' they excuse none of the other flaws. A biased test that 'works,' subjectively, for a small group remains a biased test.

As we've already covered, people here aren't responding to the test, as you and I didn't. They're responding to what they know their beliefs are and which answer represents that. ILXors, by and large, have shown a greater self-awareness and political awareness than the average population. We are not a great test subject for how something like this works. That you would argue the test works here proves nothing about the test, because we are, by and large, not responding to the questions themselves.

Again, I don’t want to condescend, but did you read the link on MDS? Do you understand the concept behind perceptual maps? Do you understand the foundation of the questions used in research? Did you read the FAQ on the politcalcompass.org site yet? You also need to spend some time with the FAQ on the quiz page itself. Clearly, you don’t understand how the mapping works and why it is relevant to ask questions or put forth propositions that are extreme. Have you taken a statistics or research class before?

That isn't condescension, it's nothing at all. You didn't say anything in that paragraph. You didn't respond to any of my criticisms, you didn't make an argument. Vague references, some to things I haven't taken issue with ("propositions that are extreme"). If you think that the test is legitimate, show me. Give me evidence.

Do I need to point out where I called political compass flawed and gave it little more credence than the smallest quiz? All it has over the Nolan Quiz is that it isn't designed to propagate a specific ideology (gee, why is "Libertarian" at the top of the diamond) and asks a wider-ranging set of questions - 100ish vs. 10. I even said that it had its own bias.

You keep pointing to their FAQ. Why in God's name would I trust the libertarians' FAQ? Of course they're going to excuse its flaws or pretend they don't exist. I don't expect the Ayn Rand Institute to issue any "No, sorry we're wrong A does not equal A" statements either. To even suggest that I trust the word of a group with a vested interest in establishing the legitimacy of the Nolan Quiz is asinine.

Going back to blaming this on my apparent hatred of libertarianism is a joke. Sorry, Don, I take issue with propaganda masquerading as unbiased analysis.

You still haven't managed to tell me how these are irrelevant or incorrect:

- The bias of the questions - not the extremity, but the bias. Every question is phrased from a libertarian angle.
- The false dichotomy between social and economic issues. Every question raised has an economic aspect that is ignored.
- The fact is that it's specifically used as a libbie recruiting tool - if this is a legitimate, unbiased tool, why aren't other groups using it? Shouldn't left-liberals be passing out pamphlets to get people to sign up? Shouldn't political researchers be making use of the quiz?
- Why is it that "libertarianism" is created as the antithesis of "authoritarianism"? Why give it such a broad term, rather than a specific ideology (as you could argue the other three)? Could it be that defining yourself against a vague, unpopular bogeyman (cf. "statism") is a good recruiting tactic?
- Why are the only questions asked ones that are specific issues within the American libertarian movement?

You didn't answer me on minimum wage. Why isn't the question basic, simple opposition to the minimum wage? What does the "job loss" factor do, other than create bias?

miloauckerman OTM right here. I mean, even going back to 1999, we figured out in class that the minimum wage needed to be at least $6.50 in order to match the purchasing power that came with the minimum wage levels from the 1940s and '50s.

Sure, some may argue (quite incorrectly) that raising the minimum wage means that all other wages will have to be increased and that would raise the prices of goods and services throughout the country, but that point was already argued in class and at that time we decided that that was just a load of nonsense considering the fact that those who held the highest senior positions in companies and corporations were being paid a much higher percentage of the total allotted payroll than they were even twenty or thirty years ago, and so the smart decision would be to raise wages on the lower levels and reduce wages on the upper levels. And these upper management people can very well accomplish that while at the same time maintaining the lifestyles they've gotten accustomed to, just by making their money work for them.

*ahem* But anyway.

80 - personal
10 - econ

Thats the stupidest test I've ever taken. Those scores do not reflect my political beliefs. Milo OTM.

A biased test that 'works,' subjectively, for a small group remains a biased test.
All surveys are biased. If the test was yielding inaccurate mapping, then you might have a point. But until you demonstrate that, your point is irrelevant. I can point to bias in virtually any opinion poll. Name another quiz or poll that more accurately maps (or charts) political tendencies.

We are not a great test subject for how something like this works.
This test is designed to map your political perception/tendencies. The straight percentage answers are not revealing, nor are they meant to be. It’s the resultant mapping that’s supposed to be relevant. Let me go back to my original question, which started the thread:

Does this define you accurately

That you would argue the test works here proves nothing about the test, because we are, by and large, not responding to the questions themselves.
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If you think that the test is legitimate, show me. Give me evidence.
Go read the FAQ. You haven’t, and I’m not going to do your work for you. Also, why don't you give some evidence of a poll or quiz with comparable objectives that is used instead of this one. You seem to be confident of your expertise.

You keep pointing to their FAQ. Why in God's name would I trust the libertarians' FAQ? Of course they're going to excuse its flaws or pretend they don't exist.
I keep pointing to the FAQ because it will either a) answer your questions or b) give you points of contention to succinctly argue about this quiz, as opposed to making things up.

- The bias of the questions - not the extremity, but the bias. Every question is phrased from a libertarian angle.
The quiz is purposely biased, as all surveys are. However, it is not designed to produce libertarian results. The mapping reveals biases to all quadrants, not just libertarian. Go read the FAQ. You’ve never done any opinion research before and it’s obvious. Have you ever designed a survey before?

- The false dichotomy between social and economic issues. Every question raised has an economic aspect that is ignored.
Again, it’s intentional. Your argument here is a red herring—I can make the same argument about most opinion surveys.

My advice, even though you won’t take it, is to read the FAQ. Then I suggest you read up on multidimensional scaling. The research tool known as conjoint analysis would also give you added context, so you might want to read about that. Have you ever studied consumer or political research in an academic setting?

- The fact is that it's specifically used as a libbie recruiting tool - if this is a legitimate, unbiased tool, why aren't other groups using it?
Read the FAQ. I’m not going to do your homework for you.

You didn't answer me on minimum wage. Why isn't the question basic, simple opposition to the minimum wage? What does the "job loss" factor do, other than create bias?
The bias is intentional in order to more accurately pronounce a person’s libertarian tendencies. You’d know that it was a weed-out question if you’d read the FAQ. Consider that question without that component, for example, and how would that change the mapping.

The chart from the quiz purports to depict tendencies. Nothing more, nothing less. Only one person on this thread has said it was inaccurate for them, although I don’t know if they felt the percentage was inaccurate (which is irrelevant) or the chart was.

If you type in "political quiz" on Google - nothing to do with libertarian or capitalism, that's the first link that comes up.

Period. "How Google decides" is irrelevant. Still. Because this is still the place where anyone, regardless of political beliefs, is taken when they type in "political quiz" on Google.

All surveys are biased. If the test was yielding inaccurate mapping, then you might have a point. But until you demonstrate that, your point is irrelevant. I can point to bias in virtually any opinion poll. Name another quiz or poll that more accurately maps (or charts) political tendencies.

Don, I already have - 34.92% of respondents are "libertarian," when the movement has nothing close to that amount of support. A dozen people on an Internet messageboard, as ILX seems to be your evidence, demonstrates nothing about the test.

Bias, again - a legitimate tool attempts to eliminate bias in order to produce an accurate picture. This test revels in bias in order to recruit libertarians.

All 2-d quizzes and polls are flawed, remember?

This test is designed to map your political perception/tendencies.

It's designed to raise awareness about 'libertarianism.'

Go read the FAQ. You haven’t, and I’m not going to do your work for you. Also, why don't you give some evidence of a poll or quiz with comparable objectives that is used instead of this one. You seem to be confident of your expertise.
Don, their FAQ is irrelevant. Documents that have a vested interest in defending the quiz mean nothing. If you want to make an argument, make it.

But, as I keep pointing out - if you want a 2-d test without the libertarian bias, though still flawed, with a much greater range of questions and topics, go to politicalcompass.

Again, it’s intentional. Your argument here is a red herring—I can make the same argument about most opinion surveys.
Then do it, I don't care. But "most opinion surveys" remain - dundundun! - irrelevant to the "World's Smallest Political Quiz."

The economic aspects of those questions are ignored because libertarians ignore them.

Read the FAQ. I’m not going to do your homework for you.

And I'm not going to do your work for you. If you want to make an argument for the test, make it. Passing things off as "oh, every survey is biased" and "the bias is intentional" - which, strangely, is exactly what I've been saying is the problem, when the quiz itself doesn't mention any bias - or pointing to a FAQ that was written to defend the quiz doesn't cut it.

The bias is intentional in order to more accurately pronounce a person’s libertarian tendencies.
And that's what it comes down to. This isn't a legitimate quiz for self-analysis, it isn't a political quiz, it's an attempt to move more people into self-identifying as libertarians by writing questions geared from a libertarian position and setting them in opposition to authoritarianism.

Which is precisely what I said to start with - "bad libertarian propaganda."

For all the flaws of politicalcompass or politopia, at least they aren't designed solely as libbie recruiting tools.

I think the quiz would be better served if it didn't include a liberatarian bias in every question. Of course the questions are worded a/effect one's answers. Especially for people who are unsure abot an issue or on the fence and making their decisions at the margins or whathaveyou. And notice how the Libertarians are at the top? That doesn't mean anything?

That being said I think it is worthwhile to think of things this way instead of the old liberal/conservative straight line. That is probably because I don't fit anywhere on it. Uh and I score 100% on personal and economic self-governance. So, I win, right?

Why is "libertarian" - an ideology with far less scope than conservative or liberal - given equal footing?

The test is purposely designed to separate "libertarianism" from other right-wing ideologies, which is just more marketing.

And Don, I'm disappointed that your Google response consists of "well, I know how it works, neener neener." Seriously, if you have an argument about why being the first result for "political quiz" funnels more libertarians to the site than any other ideology (thus explaining the discrepancy between 34.92% and the .5% that exist in the US), I'd love to hear it.

If, as I assume, you're talking about the variety of libertarian sites that link to the quiz bumping up its place on the results, that still has nothing to do with being the first result for "political quiz."

Well we all like to spout off our own 'propaganda' now don't we?

I don't find it particularly honest or objective to separate American libertarianism from the right, though.

what a boring score...

There remains nothing wrong with recruiting tools. My problem is with a recruiting tool that masquerades as something else, as this one does.

* The media should be able to broadcast anything they want.

* Repeal regulations on sex for consenting adults.

* All drug laws should be gotten rid of.

* Immigration laws should be tossed out.

* Governments should not assist their farmers.

* There should be no taxes on foreign goods.

* Employers should pay whatever they want to their employees.

* Government services should be on a pay-as-you-go basis.

* Governments should stop aiding other countries financially.

Left I like, but I don't like being called "liberal".