taking sides bataille vs anal gang bang vol. 5

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so i was thinking of how obthered i am by main stream overly comercialized porn, and how little of a problem i have with bataille (sp) and other french guys. (ie hollebeuq...or americans like cooper)

so whats the difference b/w them

― anthony, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

gaping anal fissures

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

That distinction could go either way, Jess.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

are you flirting with me?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

either way, jess.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Those were pearl necklesses that were his eyes.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

mainstream porn starts with fetishes or turn-ons or whatever and hyperbolizes them to the point of absurdity, whereas bataille STARTS with the absurd and tries to drag it back into the opposite direction.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

difference or differance?

sorry

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 April 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll take Bataille.
But only because 'Anal Gang Bang vol.5' is the weakest of the series.

― omg, Thursday, 22 April 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

both john

― anthony, Thursday, 22 April 2004 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you actually enjoy Cooper?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 April 2004 05:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i find cooper intriguing and important conceptually

― anthony, Thursday, 22 April 2004 05:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Because he makes it OK to like child pornography?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 April 2004 07:57 (twenty-two years ago)

can you tell me more ?

― anthony, Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, please can someone explain what you are talking about? What is Bataille? Who is Cooper? Ta

― badger Kitten (badger Kitten), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

and what is an anal gang bang?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Georges Bataille was a French philosopher dude who also wrote some close-to-the-bone filth.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

So is this thread a discussion about arty written porno vs. fuck films?

― badger Kitten (badger Kitten), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone find Bataille erotic tho? I mean apart from Bataille himself? I'll reserve judgement on Anal Gangbang Vol. 5 until my copy finally arrives in the post.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Arty erotics vs porn = middle class wanking versus working class wanking = fee paying schools versus comps.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear Dave B is OTM. Bataille is like the dishonest version of Anal Gang Bang Vol. 5. All the theoretical stuff that's spelled out in blinking lights in Bataille is also there in mainstream porn, but without the written invitation to treat it as theory.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The only trouble with that theory is I doubt if anyone has ever wanked off to Bataille.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn too is OTM; I'd love to see someone theoriese Ron Jeremy - Jeremy's theory of cock as actor and how doing triple anal makes him a liminal philosophy. Anal sphincter as Ideological State Apparatus. Don't You See!

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Linda Williams and Laura Kipnis to thread!

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think a significant difference between Bataille's "pornography" and something like a gang-bang movie is that the exploitation (I use this term in its least political sense) of other people--besides the author and the reader--isn't implicit in a text the way it is in visual pornography. Doesn't that seem important to anyone?
And anyway, the fact that weird/impure sex is suggested in Bataille, or even that it's described (in what amounts to be pretty glancing terms), has nothing on the clinical obsessive biological scrutiny of hard-core pornography. I'm amazed that they're even being seriously compared. That said, though, I have space on my shelf for both.

― antexit (antexit), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont know linda williams

― anthony, Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Linda Williams used to teach here at UCI -- very well respected and from the interviews I read, level-headed and great sense of humor.

*uses advantage of the fact that I work at a library to dig up this entry for Dave B*

Camera Obscura, Dec 2002 p114(34)

A star is porn: corpulence, comedy, and the homosocial cult of adult film star Ron Jeremy. By Emily Shelton.

"Ron Jeremy, on the other hand, stands as the obverse of these images: overweight, unkempt, the antiaesthetic of the inferred pornographic fantasy, an atypical erotic hyperbole that translates into none of the customary prototypes. It is important, however, to consider Jeremy not as the exception to the rule, as some marginal figure that really has little to do with the "real" circuits of viewer desire, but in fact as indicative of a substantial tendency of porn to provide its perversities with scapegoats, and specifically with scapegoats whom we can, in fact, love, and by whom we love to be disgusted."

Etc. etc. etc.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Cooper = Dennis Cooper, who writes novels about coprophiliacs sleeping with their 13yo prostitute nephews and about kidnapping, raping, and murdering a 5yo boy for kicks. Oddly enough, the books mostly come off as trashy fun, since the "shocking" stuff is almost formulaic and yet isn't really presented (in the novel) as something written to be "SHOCKING". His books are also really thin and quick reads. It's like the summer reading material of bizarro-world.

Apparently the one with the climactic (so to speak) scene with the 5yo boy was made into a movie? ("Trash".) I haven't heard whether Ebert gave it a thumbs up or not...

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear Dave B is OTM.
-- J0hn Darn1elle

J0hn too is OTM;
-- Dave B

It's an ILX-stylee 69.

― SLeeeter Kinney (Leee), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

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