Why I am a Callous SOB

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Ok, so all of these threads about people dying in iraq, i am kind of scared at how little symptahty (sp) i have.

as far as i see it, they signed on (for whatever reason), and never thought they would have to do anything...soilders die, and these soilders died not b/c they were drafted but because they thot there was some honour in another jingoistic colonial excercise.

it was a natural consquence of their action.

― anthony, Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

So why are you scared?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

the callousness.

― anthony, Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you actually habour antipathy to the soldiers in the first place?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

these soilders died not b/c they were drafted but because they thot there was some honour in another jingoistic colonial excercise.

This isn't always the case. There are a lot of soldiers that have enlisted it was the only way they could support themselves and/or their families.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i do.

thats bullshit.
always another job, cleaning hotel rooms, working mcdicks, roofing, construction...

― anthony, Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Being a prostitute for Scottish men is illegal, though.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Not if you ask around.

I actually think both El Diablo and Anthony on the money, in that on the one hand it's very easily a better option than many in order to support oneself/escape/see the world, but on the other I'd find it hard to believe that there are areas -- even notably economically depressed areas like where Jessica Lynch enlisted from -- where it was literally the only option all around.

But more importantly -- and more clearly in recent years -- you really WILL be running the risk of putting your life on the line, that is the nature of the job. Whether or not the question of patriotism confused with jingoism comes into play, there is a personal courage being summoned in a situation where the job is voluntary, as it currently is.

I can't feel any direct emotional connection to people I simply don't know. I can and do, however, respect them as fellow citizens, regret their deaths deeply and feel anger at the government who I think is using them very poorly.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 April 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

thats bullshit.
always another job, cleaning hotel rooms, working mcdicks, roofing, construction...

True, (cue: tongue in cheek->) but the army is for REAL MEN and gives them some form of authority. I mean, for some it still has this aura of *respect* and power. Personally I tend to agree with Anthony: I still feel sorry for them dying but then they did choose for a career path that has higher risks.

― jesus nathalie (nathalie), Saturday, 24 April 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Three words: "money for college". Can't get that working cashier at Piggly Wiggly.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 24 April 2004 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

True enough, and Lynch's reason for joining was to become a teacher, f'r instance.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 April 2004 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

ned said it all.

― hhh, Saturday, 24 April 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I halfway feel the same as Anthony. I couldn't have anything to do with anything resembling armed forces (well, maybe I can make up some extreme cases, and I might have felt different 60 years ago, say), and they are taking the burden of representing the interests of the American government in these situations as a trade for more money and the other perks. On the other hand, not everyone who thinks that America is a good country and its interests warrants defending is an evil person - I can't agree with them, but it's not necessarily a monstrous position. Sometimes it's just an uninformed one. I don't think people deserve to die because their politics aren't mine, or they aren't hugely clever and sophisticated, or whatever. I do find it easier to sympathise with innocents who haven't (voluntarily) joined anyone's armed forces, and I find it hard to see people as heroes in these situations (except in very special circumstances), but there are few people whose deaths I don't regret, albeit in most cases in a fairly abstract way - if I could genuinely empathise with every death about which I hear I couldn't survive.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 24 April 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait Martin, so do you think America is intrinsically evil??? DO NOT JUDGE US BY OUR COCKFARMERS (who admittedly run shit).

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect that the army presented itself to enlistees as a summer camp where you could earn good money, make a career, make friends for life, learn valuable skills, and go to college. of course this was true in the late 80's when we weren't at war with anyone. I don't know if they have continued this line of recruitment.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Nowadays with the continued publicity over extended tours of duty and the National Guard being heavily relied on and all that, I suspect they don't need to spell out the obvious.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I can at least have some empathy because these people willingly signed up for this and if no-one else had, they'd have drafted the unwilling to do it, so in that sense, thank god for the insane.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

My brother joined the Army National Guard recently. He just came home last week from completing his training. My dad was also in the Army for 22 years. (I will never ever join the military though, no way Jose!). I understand some people's callousness towards soldiers dying overseas, it is hard to feel sad for people you don't know. The news media can have that numbing effect where you feel like its "expected" or "natural" for soldiers to die (it is a potential part of the job after all). It's totally different though when you have close relatives in the military. I hope my brother isn't called over to Iraq.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan, I was fairly careful to talk about the interests of the American government rather than generalise about American opinions. I like, even love, many Americans.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 24 April 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I used to feel that way about the police, but suddenly when I was maybe 25 or 26 I just stopped feeling that way, and now I can see them as individual men and women from certain circumstances who doing what they see as a noble activity, whose genuinely noble activities are occasionally perverted by the rulemaking government. I mean the police save people from being raped and abused, it's all so noble. And you could join the army looking at it that way too. Couldn't you? I'm not saying people should join the army. In fact, the case with the police may be totally different.

― . (...), Sunday, 25 April 2004 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

That is a hard position to sustain if you've lived in the world for a while and paid any attention at all. I have similar feelings towards the police as the armed forces, and although I see substantial differences, they aren't necessarily better/worse ones. The army gives you more chance to kill, the police gives more chance for pettier pushing-around of people; the army protects the government's interests abroad, the police protects society's interests at home. I have a cousin who is a policeman, and he's a fine man, so I'm fully aware that there are good police with what I'd see as the right attitudes. He thinks they are a small minority too, and despises a lot of his fellow police. (Note: this doesn't mean I'm pleased when a policeman gets killed, in case someone wants to grossly misinterpret.)

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 25 April 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

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