Newists - C or D?

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Do you feel as though things have to be new or original for you to appreciate them?
Would you buy a CD/watch a film/look at some art even if it had been done many times before?

I ask this because my bandmate has just finished reading the Illuminatus Trilogy and like so many is talking about referencing the book and the cult in a demo we are putting together. I agreed it would be fun but pointed out that this kind of thing has been done many times before and it would probably be overkill. His answer was that he is sick of "the new" and the fact that everything had to be a new concept before people could appreciate its merit. His argument was that what matters is whether something is good or not - not whether it's a cathartic piece of new thinking.

I admit that this standpoint hadn't ever crossed my mind. Obviously we are standing on the shoulders of giants and no-one ever creates something that is entirely new or original, but I'm the kind of person who enjoys seeing new ideas put into practice rather than the "if it ain't broke" approach. Likewise I am always up for people taking an old idea and standing it on its head, twisting it in some unique way.

Take these examples for instance:

1. A sci-fi movie where everything is reminiscent of 1930s America.

2. Live drum n bass played on real instruments.

3. A satirical recording of famous people speaking out of context and then rearranged to say something else.

4. Baggy revival

5. Going backpacking in Australia

None are new ideas, some have slipped into fads or cliches and some are so old, they're being revived. Which could/would you still do? Would you go and see a film like no 1 even if you've seen Brazil and Blade Runner etc? Would you see this as a cop out? Would you still go and see it even if you think it's a cop out on the offchance it might be a really good film?

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:14 (twenty-two years ago)

In response to your examples:
1. Wouldn't go and see a sci-fi movie, full stop.
2. Jools Holland time.
3. Only if it's Cassetteboy doing the rearranging.
4. No thanks.
5. Again, no thanks - don't fancy being knifed and thrown off a bridge by a passing psycho.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

5. This actually happened to someone I knew.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

All five of those sound hugely unappealing regardless of the age of the concept.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

They're much more likely to strangle you and burn your remains, Marcello.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

There's nothing remaining of me.

xpost to mark grout: Seriously?

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Doing something new is probably going to give you more cred, but doing something good a hundred times over will get you adulation. Take Motorhead for example - never cool but they always ruled.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Motorhead have always been cool in my house.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, Motorhead are cool* now because there's been a revival and a certain amount of kitsch is involved, but I don't believe top critics would have given them points at the time because only yucky bikers liked that stuff.

*as in "general populace and media" cool, not "in ones personal opinion" cool

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Wrong. They were adored by the critics circa Ace Of Spades/No Sleep 'Till Hammersmith time. Also when Orgasmatron came out.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

ok. maybe my point is faulty.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

'30s America sci-fi is great - when is SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW coming out??! Gattaca wasn't all that but I did like Dark City

live drum n' bass played with 'pwopa instwaments' isn't so bad really - did anyone check out Photek's recent Do Or Die shows?

Only if it's Cassetteboy doing the rearranging
oh yeah cos it's not like just anybody can do this...(granted CB are among the best out there tho)

to cut a long story short i like all 5 ideas

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I pretty much gave up on 'new' a couple of years back in the same way you feel like you need to leave a party because you're getting bored. that's life in the 21st century I find...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

photek makes me want to smoke crack.

of course not anybody can do this. adrian juste couldn't.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the new isnt always so obvious. something that might be, superficially at least, a rehash, can often be newer in less immediately apparent ways.

there is also the question of intrinsically new and contextually new. so called old things can become new due to socio-cultural context.

live drum and bass is an awful proposition, although, having said that, i very much enjoyed the live/programmed hybrid jungle stuff we saw out in seattle last week. very surprising

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

are the darkness old or new?

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

roni size/reprazent were bloody good at live d'n'b pre-hollandisation. also do live human count as live d'n'b - they're (were?) pretty good as well.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd suggest 'intrinsically new' can only apply to 'hard' media (technological devices) tho the concepts themselves can have existed for a long time before realisation (most obvious, dumbest example being abacus -> computer or something) whereas 'contextually new' applies to the soft, particularly art

live drum and bass is an awful proposition - i remember seeing Adam F and Reprazent in '97 and '98 and thinking it was fantastic. i would stand by this today. you would scoff, but that's okay, we are friends.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

you would scoff
No I would agree with you.
but that's okay, we are friends.
don't try it

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha, now i'm not sure if i was talking to you or Gareth

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but the younger you are, the more exciting you find 'new'. The older you get, the more likely you are to prefer 'old' over 'new'.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i promise not to knife anyone and throw them off bridges

― the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

not even if they're in the midst of a baggy revival watching live drum n bass?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Long backpost to Marcello:

Yeah, someone I met only the once, but was a good friend to a friend of mine. She went backpacking in Aus, and yeah. Quite a few from work went to the funeral, including my friend, it was covered in the news, she struck me as a really nice person. Friend didn't say much about it, but what he did say, yeah.

Anyhow, my remark wasn't accusing you of flippancy, in fact the opposite.

(Back to the comedy now...)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

what comedy?

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i promise not to knife anyone and throw them off bridges

Then where's the joy?

This isn't quite Dog Latin's point, but I admit to being nonplussed with a constant focus on the bleeding edge, though as I've muttered elsewhere on the grad school thread, it's because I find it to be the equivalent of the similar 'must keep up with everything everywhere NOW' sentiment of higher education. There are also lots of things I definitely find shrugworthy or worse because they don't add much to something I already enjoy perfectly well. That said, recombinations and surprises can and do always happen, often to great effect -- there was a good case for "Toxic" being such over on ILM from Gareth just now, though it's not one of my hyperfavorites. All comes down to the audience...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

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