Another US Election Question

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Ok i know a bunch of republicans who are scared of the war in iraq, of losing their jobs, of keeping the ones they have, of sending their kids to college but have a bunch of ideological problems with the democrats.

they arent going to vote for Bush, they arent going to vote for Kerry.

Whats gonna happen to them ?

anthony, Friday, 14 May 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

They are going to either not vote or they are possibly going to vote for Roy Moore or whatever other looney the Constitution Party tosses up.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 14 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Also I think Lyndon(?) Larouche always runs.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 14 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

They aren't going to vote. It's any politicians worst nightmare, losing your base. That's partially what happened to Gore in '00.

Debito (Debito), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Nader has the Reform Party endorsement, and apparently his campaign is going to center on those concerns. (Yes, I do believe Ralph has gone around the bend this time)

Who are the libertarians nominating this time - Harry Browne again?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

These people don't sound like Roy Moore types. If they were upset that Dubya hadn't nuked Mecca the day after 9/11, I could see it.

Not voting or voting LPUSA are just about the only choices for someone who doesn't like Dubya for those reasons and doesn't like Kerry.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a tough line for Dubya to walk, because he must...

1) appease the religious right by taking strong positions in the cultural wars, but...

2) not allienate the old-school conservatives who are more interested in tax-cuts and fiscal conservativism (I have no idea how these coincide, but whatever).

If he loses either of these elements in the Republican base, he is probably in trouble.

Debito (Debito), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthony, I think you captured at least part of my current political predicament there in that I don't want to vote for either Bush or Kerry at this moment, Bush because he's thoroughly disappointed me with some of his actions and rationales and Kerry because as hard as I've tried to centralize my political behaviors, I just can't see myself voting for a presidential candidate from the party of the Democratic Underground, Al Franken, and Peter Jennings.

I seriously don't know what I'll do voting-wise when November comes up. I suppose I might just cast my vote for the Libertarian party candidate, unless that person makes absolutely no sense to me. Out of all the political parties operating in the U.S., the Libertarians make the most sense to me, even though I think they're a bit too irresponsible. And just because they make the most sense to me, that doesn't mean they'll be the right solution for me. You see, I think the Libertarians are so gung ho on getting government out of every single aspect of human life that it sometimes feels as though they're just a bunch of overgrown little brats who dislike authority to the point where they want it completely gone from their lives, and I was raised to respect authority, even if I disagree with them. I will never get to the point where I want to reject all authority, and that is why I will never be comfortable with the Libertarians, even if what they stand for fits me more than the Democrats, Republicans, "Independents", Socialists, Greens, and "Constitutionalists" combined.

Fuck, the U.S. political system needs a "make better" badly, and not the kind that the "Queer Eye" fab five can deliver.

Those Beautiful Lines (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

do a write-in vote for simon le bon

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Those Beautiful Lines,

Please vote for Kerry. He may not be the ideal president for you, but I strongly feel that America would be better off with Kerry than Bush.

Debito (Debito), Friday, 14 May 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Anybody but Bush, thank you.

jim wentworth (wench), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

That works too.

Debito (Debito), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

do a write-in vote for simon le bon

Ha. That's the same sort of twisted, stalkerish, "Be My Icon"ish Duranieism that I find wholly disgusting and something that would cause me to slit my wrists if I thought I was even coming close to approaching. Unless you were just kidding, in which case -- ha ha, ok, I certainly will. ;)

Debito (and please call me Dee), I was an active supporter of the Republican party for about ten years. It's only been within the last six months that I've stopped being an active supporter, and it's only been within the last month that I've been able to view the ABC World News Tonight on at least a semi-regular basis. It's taken me a lot of thinking to be able to arrive to this point. Don't worry, though. I will be looking at each candidate as impartially as I can and trying to figure out which one would fit me best. Seriously.

Those Beautiful Lines (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

What is wrong with Peter Jennings!?!!??!? The voice of ABC news!!!!

hugh, Friday, 14 May 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Jim, I don't know if you can measure how much Bush has disappointed me. I've tried to rationalize some things away, but in reality I felt like I was promised one thing and I voted for the Bush I saw in 2000, but now I'm waking up in 2004 and seeing that the guy has essentially betrayed me. He was never this way as TX governor. He was always a "uniter, not a divider", and he was happy to work in a bipartisan environment with an inclusive attitude. I feel crushed. It will take a hell of a lot for me to even think about casting another vote his way.

("hugh" -- *laughs*. My own personal reasons. Though I'm starting to warm up to him.)

Those Beautiful Lines (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

is it because he's canadian?

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Bush was worthless, even by Texas' low gubernatorial standards. He only looks good now because the Texas GOP has managed to royally fuck things up like never before, thanks to redistricting.

The bipartisanship of the '90s Legislature (which for all intents and purposes consisted of Dems and Reps getting together to screw the little guy, so it wasn't exactly something to praise highly) can be pinned on Bob Bullock when he was in office. Even David Dewhurst kept things 'united' until Perry and the far-right forced his hand on redistricting.

I'm still pissed about Bush screwing the people of Arlington out of a few hundred million dollars, though.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 14 May 2004 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I just can't see myself voting for a presidential candidate from the party of the Democratic Underground, Al Franken, and Peter Jennings

But voting for the candidate from the party of Ann Coulter was okay in 2000? I'm sorry, your political rationalizations display a startling naivete, but at least it seems as though the wool has been pulled from your eyes, just a bit.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 14 May 2004 05:36 (twenty-two years ago)

They're still going to vote for Bush.

D Aziz (esquire1983), Friday, 14 May 2004 05:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I just can't see myself voting for a presidential candidate from the party of the Democratic Underground, Al Franken, and Peter Jennings.

I don't get the Peter Jennings thing either - what is wrong with Jennings? DU is out of control, but you know, I don't think everyone in the Republican Party is to be held accountable for, say, the turn-the-Middle-East-into-a-sheet-of-glass crowd over at LGF.

daria g (daria g), Friday, 14 May 2004 06:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"shedule"

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 14 May 2004 06:57 (twenty-two years ago)

re: jennings

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 14 May 2004 06:57 (twenty-two years ago)

NUKULAR

daria g (daria g), Friday, 14 May 2004 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Kyle, you're being an asshole.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 14 May 2004 07:15 (twenty-two years ago)

DU is out of control, but you know, I don't think everyone in the Republican Party is to be held accountable for, say, the turn-the-Middle-East-into-a-sheet-of-glass crowd over at LGF.

Not to mention, just for instance, Haley Barbour's friends in the nu-KKK. I've never looked at Democratic Underground, but from what I've heard about it it sounds like the left version of Free Republic. I don't get the Jennings thing, either, but never mind that. What I'm really interested in is the Franken thing - what exactly about him don't you like? I'll bet if you spent a week, or at least a day or two, listening to his radio show, you'd probably hear a lot of whatever it is that turns you off, but you'd also hear some things that would surprise you and give you a very different perspective on him.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

what is the Democratic Underground? I've never heard of it.

I thought the GOP had more of a problem with Dan Rather than that Canuck.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it would be good for Kerry to win by a landslide .. not because I like him so much (although I do like him generally) .. but because it would send a message to the rest of the world (that Bushco has so effectively alienated) that Americans won't stand for his kind of arrogance.. It might be a step in regaining some of our credibility.

(Bush currently at 44%- according to CBS and Gallup.)

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ha - does anyone remember this?

Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the GOP had more of a problem with Dan Rather than that Canuck.

yeah, Jennings isn't much of a left-winger (though not a right-winger either), except on Israel, I thought.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I would just like to get this through to all poor and lower-middle-class Republicans: Your party wants to fuck YOU just as hard as it wants to fuck ME.

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Friday, 14 May 2004 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Interesting article about undecideds from today's Times.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

also, if Deanna listens to O'Franken, she'll get a bit of Jerry Garcia in as part of the deal

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Kyle, you're being an asshole.

wow, and I wasn't even trying that time, too. I just honestly didn't understand Deanna's rationalizations.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

speaking of ofranken. It pisses me off that I have to see this every time I need to start the feed..

http://images.airamericaradio.com/images/FE/chain128siteType8/site70/show4_bucket_image.gif

.. I'm able to turn off the sound before she starts talking, thankfully.

dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

My dad has always voted republican (except he voted for Perot rather than Bush I in 92), but he's told me he's definitely not voting for Bush II. There's no way in hell he'd vote for Kerry -- he'll probably end up voting for Nader if he's on the ballot in CA.

Kris (aqueduct), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

My dad is a civil engineer who's obsessed with things like the structural safety of buildings and auto safety, so Nader's got a lot of credibility with his crowd.

Kris (aqueduct), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

My dad and stepmom are Republicans who are not voting for Bush, either. My dad will probably go for Kerry, as he's ex-Navy and one of his fratbrothers also commanded a riverboat in Vietnam and was close with Kerry. No idea who my stepmom will vote for, though.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the Libertarians are so gung ho on getting government out of every single aspect of human life that it sometimes feels as though they're just a bunch of overgrown little brats who dislike authority to the point where they want it completely gone from their lives, and I was raised to respect authority, even if I disagree with them

Not to pander, but otm. In related news, some who have supported Bush now turn to Kerry.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

And, you might consider that many Republican politicians, at least not of the religious conservative variety, are essentially Libertarians who respect authority just enough to give them a predictable market economy (but not enough to watch too closely when their friends try to take unfair advantage of that market at the margin of regulation).

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

ABC News should've mentioned that Bernard Kerik is currently working for Giuliani Partners, and has been commissioned by the Bush Administration to work in Iraq. I wonder how much he's getting paid (and how much it compares to, say, an interrogator for CACI).

From CBS News's Who's Who site:

A consultant for Giuliani Partners, Kerik has been on assignment in Iraq, where he is dubbed the "Baghdad Terminator" for his no-nonsense style in rebuilding the city's police force.

I'd say he's done a bang-up job.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

A "predictable market economy" is what, exactly?

(but not enough to watch too closely when their friends try to take unfair advantage of that market at the margin of regulation)

This is hardly the exclusive territory of Republicans.

don carville weiner, Friday, 14 May 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, that was the AP's story, but the point still stands. Being a paid campaign spokesperson/mouthpiece is one thing, but it seems like they're trying to pass Kerik off as a legit, informed observer despite his being on the payroll.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

A "predictable market economy" is what, exactly?

Well, it's, as usual, a hastily-composed phrase, but generally the predictability interest dictates a preeminent desire for an economy in which, on the whole, investors can expect to rely upon what they are told about return, and actors can expect to rely upon what they are told is permissible.

This is hardly the exclusive territory of Republicans.

and yet, you would not deny that, as a general matter, Republicans favor less market regulation than Democrats?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

hypothetically.

christhamrin (christhamrin), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

and yet, you would not deny that, as a general matter, Republicans favor less market regulation than Democrats?

I'd love to wholeheartedly agree, but in practice the Republicans as a whole have happily increased regulation since 1994 (and many signed off on Democratic initiatives for the decades preceding this era.) So yeah, I'd say the Republicans like to say they do not favor regulations, but when the rubber hits the road they pave it with more rules.

As for predictable market economies, your explanation isn't all that fulfilling but understandable. Much more troubling is your attribution of this interest to either Republicans or Libertarians--who in the market does not desire stability and predictability? In fact, heavily regulated economies do not necessarily produce significantly more stability because of a lack of concert in the world economy. "Just enough" is far too vague and in reality, subject to so much interpretation that it seems meaningless to me. I think I know what you were trying to say though.

don carville weiner, Friday, 14 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

steel tarrifs clearly not market regulation, not one bit, oh no

Ed (dali), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i think he put some on lumber too, right?

christhamrin (christhamrin), Friday, 14 May 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

there are dozens of examples where Bush has increased regulation either directly or indirectly. Not only that, but the drug bill will almost certainly open up the door for thousands of lines of code and eventually, even more socialized medicine. The same goes for the Republicans who have engineered legislation in Congress since 1994.

don carville weiner, Friday, 14 May 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Kerry ahead of Bush in latest poll. I know polls aren't the be all and end all of anything, but this margin kind of surprised me.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

May ain't November.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, you know, as long as he stays out of tanks...

Dan I. (Dan I.), Friday, 14 May 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

over the memorial day holiday, i will ask dad how he will vote this election. he voted dubya last time -- and he didn't like dean when he was the (pre-primary) front-runner -- but he was also getting pissed off w/ dubya (not to mention that he never liked poppy bush). dad has a history of voting third-party (anderson in '80, perot in '92 and '96) -- it's conceivable that he could go for either nader or a libertarian, if not kerry.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 15 May 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)


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