Referring to solo-artists-who-go-by-pseudonyms-that-don't-indicate-their-solo-status as "they", C/D?

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On the "text-messaging/sharking" thread, Robbie Lumsden explained that "sharking" was a bit of slang he nicked from the Streets "on their new album."

Last night, my girlfriend said we should get tickets for Iron & Wine soon, since "they're getting pretty popular."

In both of these instances, I'd've said "his," since the Streets = Mike Skinner, and Iron & Wine = Sam Beam.

Am I crazy?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

A million DJs to thread.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

And yes, I know I put this on ILE. There's a reason for that.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's funnier the other way around, i.e. a maternal figure referring to Metallica as "he".

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

hey I didn't steal it off the streets! i was using it ages ago. i was just pleased that it had some sort of common currency.

― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

And yes, I know I put this on ILE. There's a reason for that.

And that reason will be revealed Sunday night on an exclusive pay-per-view special featuring all the ILE Superstars in a Steel Cage Match!

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Jordan -- that is funny, you're right, but it is, of course, blatantly incorrect. With my examples, I'm realizing that I'm not actually sure what the correct form is.

Robbie, my apologies. You'll noticed that I nicked the word "nicked" from you lovable Brits, though!

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Jandek first released under "The Units", apparently.

― Kingfish Disraeli (Kingfish), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

....i think i called the streets 'they' becuase their(?) name is a plural. whereas if it was the street i might refer to "Its" new album. to refer to a person who goes by a group name as "he" would just seem weird, je crois...

xpost

― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Iron & Wine is an interesting case because it's plural, but not like The Streets is plural!

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the artists clearly want to present it as if it were something other than a solo project. I guess whether or not you choose to respect their desired image depends on how well you like them.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

It's fine, it's just a linguistic thing - it's awkward to say something grammatically correct for the sake of accuracy. It causes more confusion in the end.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I would probably have refeered to Iron & Wine as "them" but that's because a) I don't know much about him, and the assumption is always that an act not named after a person is a band and b) (I think) they're less about "here I am, this is my story" than The Streets.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That should be grammatically INcorrect, obv.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, the artists clearly want to present it as if it were something other than a solo project.

I'm not sure this is the case, though. I mean, we've all heard the guy who's just discovered Aphex Twin and thinks "their music is fantastic," and we want to correct him, don't we? "It's actually just one guy, mate." Or do you refer to Aphex Twin as "they," too?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The "twin" is confusing.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally I tend to err on the side of plurality (esp. since most of these folks do have back-up musicians), but I do tend to use the word "is" for the Streets.

precedent!
http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drf500/f502/f50294sxmf1.jpg

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(I don't know why I'm using British slang all of a sudden.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, NA, pretend I said Squarepusher.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

As in Tom Jenkinson & the Squarepushers?

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely using their is correct useage, I don't know anyone who'd use anything different?

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd LOVE it if Jenkinson started releasing albums under that name.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn D4rni311e to thread. (I probably mispelled your name)

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think his name has any numbers in it.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I was just about to bring him up, since I started asking a co-worker about this, and he said, "What about the Mountain Goats?"

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Complete this quiz.

1. Pavement is/are playing tomorrow night. Do you have any of his/their old albums?

2. Squarepusher is/are playing tomorrow night. Do you have any of his/their old albums?

3. The Mountain Goats is/are playing tomorrow night. Do you have any of his/their old albums?

4. Iron & Wine is/are playing tomorrow night. Do you have any of his/their old albums?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i think with definite bands it should be its and not his surely, shirley?

― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Complete this quiz.

IT'S A TRAP

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Mountain Goats = JD for the most part

hey, if one wants to hide behind a collective pseudonym, that's. AH.-IGHT.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

But Robbie, would you EVER say, "Do you have any of ITS old albums" under any circumstance?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

got beat to it. once. again.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

there's two guys in most of the M Goats pics I've seen with articles these days.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I usually use a fake group name for solo stuff because it sounds cooler than my dorky real name.

― NA (Nick A.), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yes but would you see Do you like pavement have you any of his new albums? under any circumstances.

i think rather "their" would be used in its not gender specific singular fashion, which is rather popular (and useful) nowadays.

― Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I usually use a fake group name for solo stuff because it sounds cooler than my dorky real name.

likewise. Plus its wishful thinking that someday I might find the right collaborators for the stuff I'm doing.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree, I would never say "his" for Pavement. I think with that example we can all agree that "their" is the correct choice. I was just trying to make each example consistent.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

a lot of solo artists w/ "group" names just use those names as a catch all for them + whoever happens to be working with them at the time. it's the umbrella name they give to their product. why is that so hard to grasp?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not hard to grasp, Jody. But you haven't answered the questioN!

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(Unless that's an implicit use-the-plural-pronoun-at-all-times.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

The two first examples are trickier than that: most of the tracks on The Streets' albums don't have anyone who isn't Mike Skinner involved, and I gather the same is true for Iron & Wine.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Squarepusher sounds like it could be a psuedonym for a single person.

Iron & Wine doesn't (unless of course said person is dressing in mithril underwear and has homemade elf ears).

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

the answer is: it varies by artist.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Iron & Wine's first album = just Sam Beam
Iron & Wine's second album = Sam Beam plus others, I think

Squarepusher/Aphex Twin = always just Jenkinson/James, I reckon?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

While it would be cringeworthy to say, "Mom, this is my friend Aphex Twin," it would be even worse to say, "Mom, this is my friend The Streets"; in fact, I would probably punch my friend mid-introduction for being a gigantic flapping douche.

Ergo, The Streets = plural.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Iron & Wine's first album = just Sam Beam

Oddly, skimming this really quickly, my brain processed this as Jim Beam. Is it really only 18.00?

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I just say "They... er, his... I'm not sure if it's one guy or a group or what" all the time.

― Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Stuart wins.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

technically Pavement is a bad example considering only one of their albums featured all members of the band in the recording studio (Brighten the Corners).

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

not true, slanted had all three members at the time: sm, spiral stairs, gary young. rob chamberlain joined as bassist, then departed and mark ibold replaced him for the 1991 tour (as well as nastanovich).

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

dude that is what Nastanovich told me. You take it up with him. I also know for a fact that not every body in the band got paid the same, even when on tour.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I see we've been called to the thread, but we have no idea what to say

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

bob wasn't in the band... oh well... i'm gonna go buy the book and that will settle it for once and for all!

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

A band should only be an it anyway, shouldn't it? It's a collective. You don't say 'Eritrea are experiencing their worst famine in 17 years,' or 'The X Files are the greatest show in history,' or 'the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra are in residence at Twister.'

― Always Winter Never Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the point wasn't so much about S&E but it's undeniably true that the later stuff, when they solidified as a band on tours, for interviews, etc., was mostly recorded without all band members present. BtC was definitely the only album with all members present for the entirety of recording.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

and it shows! that record is crappy.

my favorite era of the mountain goats were when they were j0hn and r@chel, something j0hn doesn't like to talk about despite my biannual mention of this fact.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I like BtC but then again I also like mayonnaise and flip-flops so I'm clearly on the losing end, ILX-wise, always.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

that's fine just don't shout it out of a car wearing a trucker hat on gear!'s couch.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

where in the fuck is the mayonaisse hate thread? that is the most indie guilt BS that ILX has ever offered, point me the way.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

well four out of five ain't bad, I guess (I've never had, nor probably will ever have, anal sex on gear!'s couch).

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

someone MSPaint that and we can all go home.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

dude it's not a thread, it's a meme concerning mayo and its use in other foodstuffs ie guacamole and cole slaw and in general. Also apparently I hate McDonald's and people who don't go to church.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate people who don't go to Church's.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate people who don't like mayo on their chicken sammich from Church's.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I am also out to destroy Chick-Fil-A.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 May 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, well, this proceeded well.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Chick-Fil-A singular or plural?

i.e. Is it They have good sammiches or It has good sammiches?

― martin m. (mushrush), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

From an Alex Ross New Yorker article on Pavement:

"The band is almost famous: rock critics adore it; unruly novelists like Dennis Cooper and Bret Easton Ellis admire it; cultists catalogue it on the Internet; other band copy it."

This sounds really weird to me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

(Even though the antecedent is the singular "band," it sounds better to my ears to say "rock critics adore THEM" etc.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Well that's the entire reason why people refer to the Streets in the plural: it sounds better, more grammatically correct. If Aphex Twin was Aphex TwinS I'd imagine the same situation; see also I'm pretty sure even my mom is aware that Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor but you'd not refer to NIN as "he".

Because it sounds stupid. I blame art.

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

There is a twin in in Aphex Twin it's just the other is resting in a box in the ground so the name is fine. Check the cover of Girl/Boy EP for a pic.

― Frank Swedehead, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, yes, I was saying "Aphex Twin is a he" is grammatically correct because it is ONE twin not TWO twinS. Just like my sister is a twin and the other one is a twin and together they are twins do you see? This has nothing to do with Mike Skinner.

BUT HOW DO YOU REFER TO THE PRODIGY THEY ARE NOT PLURAL DO YOU ALL UNDERSTAND THE CONFUSION?

etc

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The prodigy _are_ twats. I phoned Miss Manners and she agreed.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I highly doubt Miss Manners uses the word "twat".

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"The Prodigy are supporating, messy vaginas."

― Miss Manners (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Something tells me that after a few drinks, I bet even Ms. Manners dares to loosen her corset and swear.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

(Miss Manners can't spell for shit, BTW.)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

HAHA!

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Miss Manners would find it rude to call her "Ms. Manners" when she clearly has indicated her preference for Miss! And I don't think she'd call anyone a messy vagina either. None of you are familiar with the concept of manners at all, that is what I'm reckoning here.

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

It is okay to say someone is a sack of musty genitals if you do so with your right pinky extended.

― Miss Manners (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

You're thinking of Dr. Evil.

― Allyzay, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.fabricmanglers.homestead.com/files/joydrinkingtea.JPG

"I have heard of The Prodigy; I found them to be stroppy cunts. My, this tea is delicious!"

― DO YOU SEE??? (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

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