Women despair at 'do it all' life

Just being able to do all the things we're supposed to - be that career/family or career/study or study/work/artistic pursuits or whatever is definitely exhausting.

My job has become frustrating, I'm aging, putting on weight and drinking way too often, I'm always exhausted and yet I still have to shop after work for food (on foot -I dont drive), then come home and cook and clean up all between 7 and 11pm, for me AND my partner even though its just us and no kids.

Why do I let myself fall into that role? The few times Ive insisted the lad pick up the groceries or do some cleaning Ive felt HORROR GUILT.

I R fule.

Many professionals (and I'm really talking professionals here, not women who don't have a choice, such as single mothers) feel like they should strive to have it all, have the relationship, the children, and the career, and then wonder why they're struggling. I think we need to re-examine what we really want, realise that we aren't superwomen, and step back look at what we've achieved and realised that we're doing ok, and there's no point striving for perfection when perfection doesn't exist as you'd be too knackered to enjoy it.

I'm lucky, I'm going to have a househusband ;0)

In which case Vicky's bang on with the househusband thing - even if it does conjure up images of Chris with a pinny and a feather duster, bustling around while waiting for the horse to be ready...

Expectations have been raised - women haven't necessarily been told they CAN have it all, rather that they SHOULD have it all, which is completely unrealistic. And in trying to achieve everything they find themselves drowning, and see themselves not just as failing in one particular area, but failing at life in general.

Back to my aunts - they didn't work because they had to, they worked because they thought being a successful parent meant package holidays, kappa shell suits, etc. etc.

IpsoKate, please write it, even if it sounds wanky. I'm really interested in how other women experience this.

Vicky OTM here: Expectations have been raised - women haven't necessarily been told they CAN have it all, rather that they SHOULD have it all, which is completely unrealistic.

Expectation changing and not attempting to be superwoman, fair enough. But there are certain things, if you don't do them, who will?

I'm trying to price out the prospect of the financial cost of a life alone right now, and it's insane. Mortgages, council tax, even food prices (everything comes in two-portion packets) are all based around the idea of couples or dual incomes. How does a one-income household afford a to buy a house in London? Not within a decent (middle class?) standard of living, it just doesn't.

I can't figure out how to take care of one person on my salary, I've no idea how two people or a family would be expected to manage. I'm not even talking about package holidays and branded trainers, I'm talking a mortgage, transport and frugal food.

The house-husband/gender role division is probably quite important. My last relationship, I was the one who went out to work, so my other half agreed to be the house-husband. (It's his house after all.) Still, I found myself doing the cooking, not the mention the shopping. Bringing home the bacon, going out and buying the bacon, then cooking the bacon. His part of the deal was that he do the cleaning up and the housework. And still there were these wafts of resentment coming off him over this situation. So even in the best housework-splitting situation, is it always the one who gets stuck scrubbing the toilet who ends up feeling resentful, regardless of their gender?

The problem perhaps is that the male role hasn't moved a fraction as much as the female role?

Very, very, VERY OTM here. Even talking about "househusbands" brings up cracks about Chris in an apron. Is it male fault for not changing, or female fault for not putting their foot down about it, as others have posited above? Isn't that just dumping ONE MORE THING on the woman's plate? She's supposed to be family woman, career woman, and labour management at home?

She's happy to do it, because she knows I'm flat out

Are you *sure*? I mean, we've only got your word for it. You also don't mention if your other half has a job or career of her own. She may be willing to do it if it makes the relationships work, and your lives work, but I think only she can say if she's actually "happy" doing ig.

I'm really lucky, my other half does probably 90% of the cooking, desipte me getting home sometimes 2 hrs before he does. We've got a reciprocal agreement - I clean the toilet and he does all the takeaway ordering (don't ask, I'm just weird). But I still get pissed off at the fact that I'm the only one who ever hoovers, dusts (that's a joke!) etc. I know it's completely illogical, but that's the way it is.

Kate, as you've realised it's much more economical to keep two people than it is to keep one. Fuel bills etc. aren't significantly higher, council tax isn't proportionally more expensive, and you're right, food is more economical when you're buying for two. The only solution I've seen for single people in London to buy and survive, (apart from those on stupid salaries) is to pair up with other friends in similar circumstances, or if they can afford a mortgage that gives them extra money for getting a two bedroom place so they can rent the spare room out (I think it's bradford and bingley, and it doesn't make a huge difference).

Telling remark - optimism = half?! must be half full not half empty. not that having nice hair or being tall enough (for what exactly?) seem like adequate compensation for being made to feel shit about failing to fulfil unrealistic expectations.

Speaking of unrealistic expectations... a whole house? I'm in a well-educated two-person household, and this ain't never gonna happen for me either. But the housing market is not a function of patriarchy.

Part of the problem with one partner staying at home and one partner going out to work is that staying at home and doing chores is lonely and it is not intellectually stimulating. My Bloke and I are in a situation that I regard as next to ideal, with me working part time in a job with career prospects and him working full time, and me doing most of the housework and other domestic things. The only problem with that, as Kate observes, is that there is a lot of belt-tightening that has to be done as a result.

You can't have it all. You can only have bits of it. You have to decide which bits are most important to you and do what you can to ensure that you have those bits. Of course it's the job of women's magazines and television to tell you that you're missing out and you need more in your life. If you didn't feel that there was a hole in your life, you wouldn't spend money trying to fill that hole, and they wouldn't have any advertising.

Pretty sure, yeah. She doesn't like it much, but who does? I always do what I can when I can, and when uni's not on I do just about everything except cooking anyway.

You also don't mention if your other half has a job or career of her own.

She does, yeah. We both work 40 hours a week, and I have uni on top of that, which this semester has eaten up every spare second I've had.

She may be willing to do it if it makes the relationships work, and your lives work, but I think only she can say if she's actually "happy" doing ig.

Again, I use the term 'happy' to mean she's happy to help me while I'm doing other stuff. And she is. I'm working for both of us, and 'er indoors doesn't have very much on outside work hours. She volunteers to do housework because she has that time, and because she knows I do plenty during uni breaks.

It really is about deciding which bits of the 'have it all' cake are the most important to you, and communicating well with your partner/family. If it turns out that between the two of you all the chores are covered and you enjoy the bits you're doing, that's great.

I would say that a system where one partner does all the housework is never ideal, partly for the reasons that accentmonkey mentions of it being lonely and unstimulating. But it can also be fun and fulfilling, and it links you deeply to your home and its rhythms, which for me at least is a really important balance to a manic working life. I work longer hours than Matt at the moment and he does the bulk of the cooking and cleaning, meaning that sometimes I feel left out of the running of my own home, which can be just as bad as feeling trapped in it.

Different standards of cleanliness really can cause resentment too. I try to remind myself that we BOTH have our foibles and failings. Eg. Matt never shuts drawers and cupboards, but then I leave my MA coursework all over the place...

I do think there's a niggling feeling, for women, that men are somehow not supposed to be good around the house, and any small failure on their part is actually an indictment of the whole sex and a signal for us to sigh, roll up our sleeves, and Do Things Properly as women have done for generations. But this is clearly spurious... I have a strong feeling that Matt will ultimately be far more efficient at raising a family than I will.

I am crap at knowing when to clean though, which is why I have turned into a feeder in a lame attempt to make amends ;o)

That always makes me laugh! If it looks dirty clean it, but mostly, don't leave it to get that dirty!

i can't imagine myself in a traditional relationship. even my parents, who i think of as pretty hip and products of an authentic hippy/feminist youth, are more 'traditional' than i'm comfortable with. dad barely does his own laundry, although he does all the 'outside' jobs, and works many more hours than mom.

i also think i'm probably less worried about this subject because i'm not planning on having kids-- and i suspect that while maintaining a more equal and fair relationship is possible with two people, it's a lot harder to do with kids around.

oh, and i'm happy with my height as well.

my mum was horrified when she came round to the flat to clean it for when we got back from honeymoon. I've given up on Chris's side of the bed - piles of clean and dirty clothes, magazines, books, receipts, loose change etc. but she did a huge clean and found socks (and god knows what else) under the bed, she found his signet ring that he'd lost approx. 4 months before, and she was fizzing with him that it was such a state. I've managed to let it wash over me. I'll nag every now and again, and once he was away for the weekend and I got disgusted by it, so I threw it all in a bin bag and stuck it out on the back staircase. (I ended up confessing a couple of days later, cos he still hadn't noticed anything different, or missed any of the clothes).

He doesn't see the muck but will usually sort something out if I ask him to, and he does his best to make it reciprocal, by feeding me so much that I can't see the muck under my feet cos my belly's too big. (I'm sure that's his long term plan)

In fact, if I think about it in that way I don't get annoyed that I'm the one that does the cleaning, because I'm doing it for me, just as Chris does most of the cooking because he really enjoys it.

I also share the hatred of take-out ordering! Even when I lived with a female, we had a deal that she would ring up and order, and I would go to the door and give the money, dealing with each others' social phobias.

I have kind of the flipside of much of the gender division here. My mum grew up with maids and had no idea of how to do housework. (When the house gets unbearable, shout at your children to tidy up.) I'm not exactly the Dirt Queen, but my cleanliness standards - or, more accurately, my *tidiness* standards - were far below my partner's. Which probably didn't help with friction and resentment. That said, my *cooking* standards were far above my partner's (he who grew up surrounded by professional chefs, can barely boil an egg, let alone make spaghetti sauce) so that's why I ended up with that bit of the chores.

((I'm not particularly happy with my hair, but you know, I can change it at will now. My height is OK, even though I sometimes wish I were shorter.))

[yes, i am afeared of the washing machine]

also i think there is a "thing" about women of our age not being great cooks, that i like to think traces back to them being told they "could do anything" by their mothers and shouldn't be tied down to trad roles. this is double-bubble for blokes though because it means if they cook, as mentioned by several of us so far, they get out of the boring stuff like dusting/washing up etc.

I don't know. I started this thread thinking "Argh, that's what's wrong, I am trying to combine too many roles, how can I possibly be Whip-smart Logical Database Goddess and Adoring Sexy Girlfriend and Moody Artist and Chief Cook, all at the same time?" but through the course of this thead, I realised, that's not the problem at all. The problem is there was poor to no bloody communication in my relationship, and I am more prepared to ask complete strangers whose flats I am viewing about their preferences and habits on dishwashing, cooking and household chores than I was to ask my beloved the same questions when I moved in, coz somehow I thought love would take care of all that.

So...

*cough*

Also, for ladies and the whole biological clock stuff -- does the lack of necessity for mens come into this? I half-think we (20-something mens) are a pretty useless lot of post-Fight Club shirkers who aren't up to the challenge of kids.

I still don't know what a typical 42 yr old Dad acts like tho'.

ah shit I'm too tired to remember. it was something about feeling pressured to be wonder-mum and also study, raise the next generation, keep a perfect home, make time for myself, look great, find a man, pay the bills, be creative, be positive, rah rah rah

Amber wants to be on the telly again. The next day she watched 'Ministry of Mayhem' which she enjoys but on watching various bucket flinging, adds "That's why I don't want to be on the telly. Not on that kind of programme anyway. I want to be on Behaviour telly." So, it looks like 'serious' drama only. She's six by the way.

i'm concerned about this. i've lived the short attention span life for a long time, and really enjoy it. it's totally selfish. it's good fun, for the most part.

which is why i wonder if i'll ever be able to put myself in a situation that is really and truly about 'compromise' (a big part of the juggling thing, i think?)-- including healthy cohabitation, marriage, kids. maybe it'll all change for me at some point, like kate says and has said elsewhere, but i'm not sure it'll happen to me. and not that sure of whether it bothers me or not.

I insist, and I continue to insist, the more that I see of other couples, that the "room of your own" private space to retreat to actually works. But I'm fucked (literally, hah) if I can convince Joe to even try it. Sighs with frustration.

Settling down seems to suggest that it is all volitile beforehand, as opposed to a natural continuation of where a couple is going.

But people's paradigm shifts are not always the same. It might be the deepest most natural commitment for some to get married and have children, and for others it might be travelling the world together as aid workers or something. Or even being apart (I'm still prepared for the possibility that Matt will go off to be a Buddhist monk), but still committed to each other on a deep level.

But people will have different balances. Another fellow I know, not a close friend but someone I've known for a decade and who is a cool dude, married a couple of years back. When I was talking to him recently about things and we spoke over life lessons learned, he noted how he is much more self-contained than his wife, and how they've had to learn -- over time, with patience -- each others' signals, ie him sitting in a corner reading a book or playing a video game and wanting to be left alone is not some sort of sign that he hates her, while her wish to go out together to do something or just to spend a little quality time hugging and chatting during the day isn't her being overwhelmingly clingy.

I realized several years ago, when I was about 19 I think, that I was far too serious and needed to lighten up. I was stressed out all the time. Then again when I was 22 and working, I turned into a big ball of stress. I gained a bunch of weight and had this weird lifestyle of being REALLY stressed at work and having as much fun as possible after work.

Anyway, I worry too much. I always have. And I've always got a million To Do lists in my head. However, as Nick has pointed out, I don't necessarily do all these things, just stress out about them. I'm obsessive but I never satisfy myself by doing it all.

I think about having kids a lot and, of course, I worry about it. I'm this stressed NOW, how could I ever handle kids? As it is, I feel like I don't have enough time to do fun things and then that time is also about compromise with the bf. And also I get tired from working and want to veg. So, here I am, worn out on the couch after work, staring at balls of kitty hair in the corner, and feeling like I'm the laziest bastard in the world.

Fortunately for me, Nick does ALL the cooking and also tries to calm me down. I just wish I could learn to calm myself down.

One thing that really helped me a couple of years ago was to stop reading Cosmo. IT just made me really depressed. So I stopped looking at it and started trying to eat healthier, going on walks, and allowing myself to relax my forehead now and again (and I don't mean Botox). Now I'm allowing myself to look at fashion mags.

Ok, now does this have anything to do with this thread? I hope so, because that's what it meant for me.

IDK if there's a better thread for this, maybe one of the feminism threads, but I thought this was an interesting article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/magazine/the-opt-out-generation-wants-back-in.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&smid=fb-share

Kinda love how the husbands are clueless assholes.

Well I didn't think they *all* came off that way.