Saddam in "not helping Bin Laden after all, it seems" shockah

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WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was "no credible evidence" that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) helped al-Qaida target the United States.

In a chilling report that sketched the history of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s network, the commission said his far-flung training camps were "apparently quite good." Terrorists-to-be were encouraged to "think creatively about ways to commit mass murder," it added.

Bin Laden made overtures to Saddam for assistance, the commission said in the staff report, as he did with leaders in Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan (news - web sites) and elsewhere as he sought to build an Islamic army.

While Saddam dispatched a senior Iraqi intelligence official to Sudan to meet with bin Laden in 1994, the commission said it had not turned up evidence of a "collaborative relationship."

The Bush administration has long claimed links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida, and cited them as one reason for last year's invasion of Iraq (news - web sites).

On Monday, Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said in a speech that the Iraqi dictator "had long established ties with al-Qaida."

The bipartisan commission issued its findings as it embarked on two days of public hearings into the worst terrorist attacks in American history.

The panel intends to issue a final report in July on the hijackings on Sept. 11, 2001 that killed nearly 3,000, destroyed the World Trade Centers in New York and damaged the Pentagon (news - web sites) outside Washington. A fourth plane commandeered by terrorists crashed in the countryside in Pennsylvania.

The staff report pieced together information on the development of bin Laden's network, from the far-flung training camps in Afghanistan and elsewhere, to funding from "well-placed financial facilitators and diversions of funds from Islamic charities."

Reports that bin Laden had a huge personal fortune to finance acts of terror are overstated, the report said.

The description of the training camp operations contained elements of faint, grudging praise.

"A worldwide jihad needed terrorists who could bomb embassies or hijack airliners, but it also needed foot soldiers for the Taliban in its war against the Northern Alliance, and guerrillas who could shoot down Russian helicopters in Chechnya (news - web sites) or ambush Indian units in Kashmir (news - web sites)," it said.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

GWB in pants-on-fire shocka

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd love to see Cheney finally seize up over this in public. You know, pacemaker overload.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheney-BOT will not be pleased.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Sadly I suspect Cheney will ignore this just as he has every other public refutation of the Iraq/al Qaeda idiocy. But I hope someone on the panel seizes the initiative to point out that AQ weren't in Iraq before our invasion, but they are almost certainly there now.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

otm

why do you all hate freedom? etc k thx bye

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"You guys still believe me, right? Right?"

http://users.erols.com/magazine/dickdogs.jpeg

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

He is on the verge of eating those poor dogs.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Both dogs clearly have connections the al-Po threat.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

someone please photoshop a knife and fork into his hands

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Or a puppy with a bite taken out of it!

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess this means that there's going to be another announcement of a terrorist plot in a swing state being foiled

― maura (maura), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

CT knows how to swing! Pick us! And have the plot involve Governor Rowland, plz.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Sadly I suspect Cheney will ignore this just as he has every other public refutation of the Iraq/al Qaeda idiocy.

All it takes is one person to ask either Bush or Cheney in a press conference, and while my faith in the White House pool is dim at best, someone might step forward.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, so we made it all up. But we won, didn't we? Guys? Anyone? Hello?

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Much as I'd like to think that the press will run with this thing Ned I have this sick feeling that it'll come up in the gaggle, McClellan will come up with some half-competent evasion and it'll end there. Then the Repub leadership will send its attack dogs out to the cable news networks to decry the "partisanship" of the Sept. 11 commission.

I hope I'm wrong.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Cheney even hold press conferences?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Then the Repub leadership will send its attack dogs out to the cable news networks to decry the "partisanship" of the Sept. 11 commission.

Yeah, that Thomas Kean, what a lefty.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

dude Rasheed it's the 2nd to top news story on Yahoo!. Have a l'il optimism, esp. after last night.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(I mean, I fully take your point, Rasheed, it's just that I like to amuse myself with the hoops being jumped through by the White House.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Alright guys -- I'll try and fend off any dark feelings until at least after the White House briefing. Let's have another look at that trophy ...

http://www.andylackow.com/images/nba_trophy01.jpg

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

― Gribowitz (Lynskey), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's that Stuart fellow these days?

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

You know what the GREATEST part of these threads is? The way that people are looking for Stuart to pop up, apparently so that they can rub his face in the fact that all signs are pointing towards him being completely wrong.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost hahaha Dan is so right - crying in his milk.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

No man, I think Stuart's a Lakers fan, I'm just gonna start posting Rip pics when he shows up.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I admit it's a bit of a wish on my part, though of course he could just as easily be lurking. Personally I'd feel a definite satisfaction if he'd agree that maybe we all had a point, but at the same time to agree means agreeing to what we all know -- namely, among many other things, that ideals were used and abused and that lives have been thrown away. There's nothing to glory about in acknowledging that.

As for when/why he left, Stuart, Stence and myself got into an extensive spat on an earlier Iraq prison abuse thread one night regarding the possibility that Miller gave more than a little clearance to intriguing treatments of prisoners, shall we say (allegations which are starting to show up as pretty damn likely the more time passes). He hit, for him, meltdown mode with an all-caps rant of a post -- quick but pointed -- and I said something like, "Man, if you're reacting this way now, wait until everything ELSE finally comes out." And I wished him good night and he hasn't posted since.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

bush was flogging the 'saddam supported terrorists' meme during his propaganda speech to the troops this morning, too.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, but did he say 'al Qaeda' or not? Then he can say, "Well, I didn't say which terrorists, did I? Huh huh. Um."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you broke his brain on that thread, Ned xpost

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

His whole stance here the whole time was essentially boiled down this way:

1. We're right and doing this for a noble goal
2. But I'll admit something's wrong when I'm pressed into a metaphorical corner on the matter
3. BUT WE'RE STILL RIGHT

At some point 2 and 3 didn't link up anymore for him, I'm guessing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

That said, Mr. Blount and I talked a bit how he was actually good to have here because it really does help to have a voice to react against and argue with -- sharpens the argument, helps consider questions in a new light. Dan noted once that he could have left just because he was tired of being abused all over the board, but I noted that after a year's worth of that it would seem he'd long have a tough skin. And in many ways he defeated obvious stereotypes -- he made clear elsewhere his contempt for religious fundamentalism in the American political arena, for instance.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

He's less of a party hardliner than, say, that Russ Smith fuck over at New York Press.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I am happy that there are people that share that there anti-fundamentalism view. Even Cox and Forkum who work overtime to find views that make my skin crawl, come down on the righr side there. Which is good, because that's in my view a bigger threat than any other facet of the current administration.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

A reporter will ask Bush about this at the first opportunity, but I don't doubt the wily little chimp has already formulated a nonanswer that plays up his current buzzwords.

― j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mr. President, there's an addendum to the report that suggests you are on crack for thinking otherwise."

*sniffs* "What?"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"My Clean Crack initiative is working. Stay the course. Freedom."

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

It's rather depressing how craven conservative talking heads have been. They all want to criticize the handling of Iraq, torture, lying and everything else, but they take such pains to insulate Bush from any criticism.

I prefer the Rush Limbaugh "we didn't do nothing wrong!!!" defense to the "these actions were abhorrent and we need to find out what the fuck happened - BUT YOU CAN'T BLAME THE CHIMP" defense.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the cravenness because it leaves them more open to being trashed on their own supposed ideals...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The best thing about Mookie's made-up Bush quote is that I can clearly hear El Presidente saying that, and visualize the way his face will pucker and squint while saying it.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 16 June 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

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