― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 04:45 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.texaschainsawmassacre.net/DannyLloyd.jpg
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 04:48 (nineteen years ago) link
The Exorcist may be an even more extreme example of this syndrome -- all of its performances, considered without the central, extreme horror that powers the movie, are ham-fests. Watch it a scene at a time, or twice in a row, and it's laughable. Oh! the tortured mother and oh! the tortured priest and oh! the other *really* tortured priest... if it weren't so scary, it would be the most lampooned movie in history.
But it's not; neither of them are. Both of them depend so purely on an indefinable psychological element -- call it "horror," call it "style," call it whatever you like -- that they both work in spite of their clear drawbacks.
I pick The Exorcist as the scarier of the two because it preys more on my religious upbringing. I know people who are far more scared by The Shining, and I can't explain why any more than they can. "Scared" is a really complex and person emotion.
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 05:52 (nineteen years ago) link
Muahahahahaha!
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:16 (nineteen years ago) link
On the surface though, it seems to me that (haunted hotel aside, the end result is the same) someone being holed up in the wintertime and getting cabin fever, going completely insane and trying to kill his/her family is more likely to happen than actually being possessed by the devil. But I've never been religious so Kenan's probably right about that one. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:17 (nineteen years ago) link
Kermode alludes to several signifiers in the film that make use of the islamic call-to-prayer popping up at seamingly incongruous points in the film (most prominently in the very beginning scene, at the Iraqi archaelogical dig, and at the very tail end of the film), allegedly meant to imply the universality/cross-faith struggle between 'good' and 'evil'.....y'know, if ya buy that sorta stuff. But would someone of a different faith be as affected? Probably by the imagery and horror aspects of the film (a demonic little girl stabbing a bloody crucifix into her vagina while speaking in a scary voice is pretty jarring, regardless of your particular faith, I'd reckon), but possibly not by the much-debated moral/ethical/theological message of the film.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:24 (nineteen years ago) link
The Exorcist was partially based on an (alledgedly) true case from the forties surrounding the "posession" of an adolescent boy.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Hmmm... that's an excellent thought, and it makes me rethink my question. The horror of The Exorcist is rooted in religion, for sure. The Catholic Church endorsed the movie when it came out, and encouraged people to see it to witness the horrors the devil can bring. Sadistic? Of course. Catholic? Sincerely. But good and evil does cut across cultures, doesn't it?
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:33 (nineteen years ago) link
-- latebloomer (posercore24...), July 17th, 2004.
The MT.Ranier case. -- Alex in NYC (vassife...), July 17th, 2004."
indeed:
ihttp://www.rameysrealm.com/exorcist.htm
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:44 (nineteen years ago) link
That's certainly the implication. After all, the demon Pazuzu (seen in the form of a grinning, priapic stone idol in the beginning scene) is in Iraq and is of Sumarian origin, I believe (side note: I wonder if that location is still there? Or was it bombed into infernal smithereenies?)
http://www.qtf.info/captainhowdy/wallpaper/EXORCIST_pazuzu800x600.jpg
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 06:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyhoo... be extra sure to put your headohnes in for this site.
http://theexorcist.warnerbros.com/cmp/thefilm-fr.html
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:00 (nineteen years ago) link
Even so. Isn't a cabin fever scenario still more likely to happen, or am I being obtuse?
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:17 (nineteen years ago) link
blah blah. Obviously I know the hotel was haunted etc. Did the ghosts pose as much of a threat (or any at all) compared to the Jack Nicholson character once he lost it? People going crazy and killing people happens ALL THE TIME. I'm not just talking in the context of The Shining, here. Possession, well maybe it happened sometime in the 40's...humor me here, I'm only being half serious!
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:30 (nineteen years ago) link
Don't mean to be splitting hairs, but just for calrification Cthulu is a demon from H.P. Lovecraft's fiction.
When the Exorcist was re-released the scene in the Iraqi desert was incredible on the big screen.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:31 (nineteen years ago) link
excuse me, "Elder God", not "demon". now i am splitting hairs.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:32 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, I wonder why Kubrick added that (it wasn't in the book). I'm also a little curious why a couple years later Stephen King used that as the plot device for Pet Sematary. Hmmm....
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:38 (nineteen years ago) link
and yeah, the Indian burial ground - some scholarly Kubrick-fanboy types have actually used this one line to argue that the whole movie is a parable about the extermination of Native Americans.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:39 (nineteen years ago) link
(that's in regards to the bunny clips)
some scholarly Kubrick-fanboy types have actually used this one line to argue that the whole movie is a parable about the extermination of Native Americans.
I've heard that too....often referencing the color of several red rooms as evidence.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:41 (nineteen years ago) link
and, if so, we're arguing a point against itself. Both films seem to be about a kind of possession, no? To me though, the type of possession(if you want to call it that) that makes a man want to kill his family for no reason (and this is something that has actually happened in my family IRL, not to be a downer here, but my great-aunt and cousin were murdered four years ago by another relative who was talking to thin air (ghosts? imaginary friends? Who knows?) and suddenly snapped and stabbed them both and then according to witnesses proceeded to tell the thin air "There! I've finally done it!", no joke, he's currently in a mental institution.) is much more common than this literal "she's possessed by the devil, better call a priest" type thing. It's closer to home for most people, I'd say. That's kind of what I'm driving at.
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:42 (nineteen years ago) link
Then again.. that exorcism was supposedly based on a real event...
but now you've made me feel bad for arguing.
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 07:58 (nineteen years ago) link
The Exorcist is just silly. As I mentioned, unless you really, honestly believe the devil can lie strapped to a bed with holy water keeping it down then the film is farce.
― C-Man (C-Man), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:09 (nineteen years ago) link
But it's not the devil, C-man, it's a litle girl possessed by the devil.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:10 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, Kim Cattrall from Sex in the City. She was in PA.
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:10 (nineteen years ago) link
The Mt. Rainier possession case sounds more like a classic "poltergeist" (supernatural manisfestations usually surrounding an adolescent) case than a "posession".
But these things don't exist....or do they? MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:14 (nineteen years ago) link
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), July 17th, 2004.
Is it ever proven to be the devil though? For all we know it could be just a random evil spirit. Maybe throwing up and making Linda balir curse is his way of saying "Howdy".
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:21 (nineteen years ago) link
The Omen and Rosemary's Baby. The former just seemed like a cheap cash-in after the success of the Exorcist, whereas Rosemary's Baby (which predated the Exorcist) never seemed to deliver the goods. It was creepy, but more about a wacky conspiracy than anything else. Also, you never get to see the child.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:24 (nineteen years ago) link
I always thought the Omen was overrated. I remember my dad said that movie actually scared him, probably because he's a pretty devout Catholic. An antichrist taking over the world is something that is conceivable in his worldview I guess.
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 July 2004 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link
Maybe not, but it didn't have anything to do with anything I was familiar with growing up
― Josefa, Sunday, 8 October 2023 00:15 (seven months ago) link
You have to be religious for that to be scary, is what I'm getting at
― Josefa, Sunday, 8 October 2023 00:19 (seven months ago) link
I wasn't particularly religious as a kid, certainly wasn't raised with anything approaching religious regularity, but the idea terrified me. I think I accepted the idea of malevolent beings and, probably more relevant, the idea of loss of control of oneself.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Sunday, 8 October 2023 00:25 (seven months ago) link
First time, soon after release, at a drive-in in the States: me, my mom, my cousin, and my aunt. My cousin Glen and I were 12. I'm quite sure our moms weren't quite prepared for what we saw.
― clemenza, Sunday, 8 October 2023 00:31 (seven months ago) link
― Josefa, Saturday, October 7, 2023 8:19 PM bookmarkflaglink
I brought a Pazuzu action figure to my showing and pretty much am Team Satan and I find it terrifying as hell
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Sunday, 8 October 2023 02:32 (seven months ago) link
Thing is horror films don't have to be relatable to be scary if the film is framed right
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Sunday, 8 October 2023 02:33 (seven months ago) link
yeah its simply not a true statement imo
maybe if you go in ready to demonstrate yr atheism cool and make a point of not getting into the movie but otherwise its as scary as any other horror concept
xps im curious as to the parts of the shining that arent explicitly supernatural by the end of the movie tbh
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Sunday, 8 October 2023 07:50 (seven months ago) link
I think you will probably find The Exorcist scary if you believe in God or know anything about exorcisms - but the possession is the thing, right? The loss of bodily autonomy is a big theme in horror, that it happens to an innocent child is another, that it’s fully gloves off in the approach is another. I grew up hearing about exorcisms and how scary they allegedly were so it certainly struck that chord for me. But it’s a scary fucking film outside that!
― I’m going to get fined for being right, again (gyac), Sunday, 8 October 2023 08:28 (seven months ago) link
For an exorcism film which is anti-church (iirc just utterly corrupt and inept) this might be the one:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requiem_(2006_film)
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 8 October 2023 08:38 (seven months ago) link
Not sure why that link doesn't work but a Google should bring it up
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 8 October 2023 08:40 (seven months ago) link
It's amazing in general that both The Exorcist and Taxi Driver have dodged the movement of history and continue to be shown on TV.
Wait, you think the movement of history has gone in the direction of LESS tolerance towards profanity on TV??
I saw Scorsese speak last weekend and he chuckled about how the first TV edits of Taxi Driver in the 70's were like 40 minutes long.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 9 October 2023 09:43 (seven months ago) link
The idea of children being involved. Those films could not be made by a major studio now.
― clemenza, Monday, 9 October 2023 14:04 (seven months ago) link
I would say that classic movies can get ushered into the present with plenty of "you could never get away with that today" allowances but, as Left's posts consistently remind, that moment may also be passing. (Caught a Letterboxd review of Sunrise that more or less burned it to the ground at the very idea that Janet Gaynor went back to George O'Brien.)
― insert nothing here (Eric H.), Monday, 9 October 2023 14:08 (seven months ago) link
and Margo marries Bill and foregoes her stardom.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 October 2023 14:11 (seven months ago) link
Well if there was any testimony from either of the actresses in those two films that they felt uncomfortable I'd understand that they could become out of vogue but as things stand I think you're imagining more pearl clutching in the world than there actually is.
Likewise while it's by no means an uncommon ocurrence for younger movie fans to come across the gender politics of old timey classics and be horrified (and tbh there's lots to be horrified by!), thd vast majority of reviews of Sunrise on LB, regardless of age group, are still five star raves.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 9 October 2023 14:22 (seven months ago) link
I do prefer my college days in the late '90s, where we all agreed that Singin' in the Rain's Don and Cosmo were definitely sharing a bed on the regular
― insert nothing here (Eric H.), Monday, 9 October 2023 14:38 (seven months ago) link
Isn't there a new Exorcist spinoff either coming out or released already that features two adolescent girls?
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:36 (seven months ago) link
yes and it sucks apparently
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:49 (seven months ago) link
Poltergeist was way more terrifying to me as a child than the Exorcist or the Shining, because it was set in a house exactly like mine
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:04 (seven months ago) link
also at age ten I'd read a ton of Daniel Cohen books about the supernatural and knew next to nothing about Christianity, let alone Catholicism
I love in Poltergeist how they're watching a football game that is moving at what appears to be 0.05 speed
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:08 (seven months ago) link
that cuz they’re stoned all the time, remember coach rolling that j
― brimstead, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:51 (seven months ago) link
Just rewatched Poltergeist and, yes, the scene of Steven and Diane rolling joints in bed and doing Donald Duck voices as foreplay is a small miracle of a scene
― Dwigt Rortugal (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 October 2023 12:32 (six months ago) link