are most people in this world incompetents?

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i'd like to know, because i have two jobs right now, and both of my bosses are incompetent in a really obvious way, i.e. even i (a lazybones with few organization skills) could give them fairly concrete pointers on how to better do their jobs. i.e. if a problem arises, the first thing you should do is: think of a way to fix it. not: absolve yourself of responsibility. especially when the stakes are pretty low to begin with.

i had a very competent, albeit kind of grating, boss in my previous american job. so i know that not *everyone* is incompetent. but perhaps it's inching toward a majority?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree

― adam. (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I haite uncompetent poeple.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

example: i was sent to run an event which i did not organize. i was scarcely told anything about what was happening at the event, who was coming, etc. the next day i emailed my boss, in a friendly way, talking about the issues that came up and what we might do to make sure they didn't happen in the future.

the response?

This was not really my event. This was an unforeseen issue. Just think through the issues and come up with a solution. Run it by me first.

"think through the issues"!!!!!

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Everyone rises to their level of incompetency, you'll get there too one day amateurist.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG amst.

Do we work for the same people?

I recently complained that I have still not received any training for my job, though it was promised to me and I have made mistakes as a consequence.

Their response:

"I don't care...that's how we do things here"

― adam. (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

If by most you mean at least 51%, then absolutely.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

(that wasn't supposed to be so sarcastic, I should used a smiley)

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

My favoritist level of incompetence is where you have compeptent underlings who carry your ass. On the downside, this often leads to workplace violence and murder.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

there are so many frustrating aspects to my boss's response.

first of all, i already did "think through the issues" as best i could, and proposed some solutions! which she did not respond to! the solutions involve her putting me in touch with whoever *is* organizing the event, well before it happens, so i'm prepared to answer questions and solve problems while it's happening! i even volunteered to introduce myself to everyone else at work so that they know to contact me if they're sponsoring an event and i'm to take charge of running it! (which is kind of absurd, since i'm only an intern and don't even work in the office; my boss really should gather this information and then pass it on to me via email. ) fucking hell.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

jel is on point about the Peter Principle though. All your bosses are probably really good at some job, they're just not doing it anymore (and it may no longer exist (cf. managers in technical fields)). I try to sympathize with those I see treading water in this bureaucracy. My naivete about the challenges of management will only last so long.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i actually really like this job--i.e. i like what i'm doing, it's good experience, i'm meeting people, etc. my coworker and i have a strategy, which we will implement gradually over the next few months: relieve our boss of almost all her responsibilities w/r/t to the program we're working on. we can easily handle these responsibilities ourslves (and do a better job of it than our both) even though both of us have other jobs and don't come into the office regularly! we want to be able to say, "[boss's name], don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." but it will take some time to implement this.

TOMBOT: i'm not so sure in this case. but i take your point.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

actually none ot this is a big deal AT ALL which is why i'm so flabbergasted, in a way. this is REALLY SIMPLE STUFF. and no one's job is on the line, etc. she could very easily have handled it in a different way and have taken no more than 10 minutes on the subject. but she chose the "IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM, YOU DEAL WITH IT" approach anyway. if it were some huge knotty beaurocratic complex issue i'd understand (i've been in such situations) but no, this is totally banal and straightforward and simple. hence, something even *I* can comprehend.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

it's almost at the level of:

"can you hand me your stapler?"

"it's not my problem. you deal with it."

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

God, do I hate that kind of assholism, amateur!!st. I've worked in bth the film and special events industries and the stuff your asking for should be the very first bloody info that you get. I had a location manager at 6:00 am ask me to put up directional signs for the extras' holding area at a location I'd never been to on my 3rd day on the job, saying, "Hurry they'll be here in 15 minutes!" "Where is it?", I asked. "You're in locations, you should know," was his response. He only barely escaped death by a hair's breadth.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, that is what my office is like.

I am surrounded by people in their 40s and 50s who act like petty, stupid, malicious babies.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam, get into the library business, seriously.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 24 September 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

what makes me angry about this is that i'm looking for work, and i KNOW there are a million jobs out there being filled by INCOMPETENT people and i would do a much better job!!! gah! it's enough to drive someone to grad school!!! ;-)

michael: yeah!!! like, when does the movie start? how long is it? is someone speaking before the movie? are refreshments served before or after? is it on DVD or VHS or 35mm? do people need reservations? how many people are expected? etc etc.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

to clarify:

she's actually a very nice person, and means well. but she's just the most hopelessly scattered and disorganized person i've met in years! and as a result of her total disorganization her job feels to her like people are just throwing random things at her all the time. when in fact they are just dealing with everyday business. she throws her hands up in confusion when just keeping a date book would solve everything, practically!

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

ts: laziness vs. incompetence (that should have been the thread title actually)

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

GAHHHHHHHHH OTMFM. Every place that I temp at I'm like "YOU people have jobs but I don't?!!??"

― oops (Oops), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

In event managment that's like taking a translator job without being able to speak one of the languages. For stuff like that paper and PDAs were invented. So you don't have to remember it.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG, I used to have a boss exactly like that. Thing was, X was a paid professional who was supposed to help me & provide expertise, but it ended up being the other way around. I would ask X a question, and X would get irritated that I even asked it. It got to a point where I was doing everything on my own.

Also, you're right about problem-solving. This should seem like common sense, but a lot of people look at problems in terms of who did what wrong - either not accepting responsibility or projecting it onto someone else. That doesn't solve the problem.

Confidential to adam & jel - not necessarily.

I had to go to some management seminars at one job, and I hate to say it, but they were helpful. Anyone who has a management position should learn some goddamn protocol. You're supposed to say, 'how can we fix this', not whose fault is it that this happened.

For example, when something goes 'wrong', you should always assume it is a miscommunication until proven otherwise. Funny how many 'managers' don't do this. Keep the personal shit and your assumptions at home.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

it's friday dudes

― kephm (kephm), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a letter of notice burning a hole under my desk...wow, I''d probably have a great weekend if I actually handed it in...and then on monday cold reality would set in...oh no

― adam. (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Friday's great, because it's the one day I don't get blamed for shit that's not my fault.

Am, the more you post, the more I think you have my x-boss.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

X-boss was 'nice', too, but what good is 'nice' when someone's incompetence is causing all kinds of stress for you? It's rude to not pull your weight.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I got fired from my one temping job for pointing out all their flaws, and for basically disagreeing with a management consultant they bought in - they were just treating people pretty poorly I thought. They had offered me a permenant job - I am so glad things didn't work out as it would have meant a 40 hour week with overtime, wtf? That's when I decided to forget about ever earning that much and go work in the public sector.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

What really irks me about this is when the work is super time sensitive like movies or events. You just want to scream, "We don't have time to assign blame! Let's just fix the problems and move on 'cause there's a whole other wagon load of shit 'round the corner that we're going to have to deal with too."

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i work in problem resolution! i was never really trained, the systems here get upgraded and swithced over all the time, which means 86paged manuals and fiver hour training classes. we have been S3C audited for two years ongoing, we have merged with three other companies!
& dont even get me started on mamagement

― kephm (kephm), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

did i mention this isn't even a paid job?? it's an internship!

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

hi amateurist, i want to email you about something but i've lost your address, can you email me?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't log in so i can't see your address! ack. mine's amateurist and then the hotmail thing.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

in a bit of good news, i think i'm finally learning how to "network."

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you mad as hell, and furthermore, are you not going to take it anymore?

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i'll keep taking it

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Then you obviously haven't learned to "Network."

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 24 September 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

pffft

― amateur!!st, Friday, 24 September 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the clear message here is that it's easy to choose to delegate around your incompetence if you are in the position to do (i.e. if you have people working under you).

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 September 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"... in the position to do *so*".

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 September 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

think of someone you know that you would describe as being of average intelligence. really, think about them.

now consider that half of the world's population are even dumber than that.

this is why democracy does not work!

― darraghmac, Friday, 24 September 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Most people in this world can't spell simple words.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

a caller on npr today suggested that john kerry should have said "reasons" instead of "rationale" because the latter word probably confused a lot of people.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Most Americans use the word 'peruse' wrongly,

think that 2000 calories of food / day is absolutely necessary

"like gays as long as they're not closely related"

would like to own electric toothbrushes

enjoy "Everybody Loves Raymond"

can't pitch a tent

suck.

― ex-jeremy (x Jeremy), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

posting complaints on ILX isn't networking?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Most people use the word 'wrongly' incorrectly.

Sorry. :)

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but this is hardly real life. (says the blushing kid)

― ex-jeremy (x Jeremy), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX is more consistent than real life.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And contains fewer injuries, much to my delight.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

's true, and there are fewer Randies...err...Randys. This could be the start of a beautiful thread, Adam: "Ways in which ILX is better than real life..."

― ex-jeremy (x Jeremy), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh oh.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

indeed!

it is frankly astonishing that anything is ever accomplished. i have now worked for an american public school system (you would shudder) and the american federal government (perhaps worse). and yet i have friends who worked in egypt a couple years ago on a web portal--they were there for a year and a half and nothing ever happened. they said that 'time is different in the middle east'. but time is a mess everywhere. humanity is a muddle; sometimes shit happens, but usually not.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)

confirmed by my interaction with people at work today, the answer to the question in the thread is YES

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Most people are incompetent. I may yet get around to posting my rant/plea for decent job on craigslist: "Hire me, I will get stuff done that needs to get done and I won't fuck it up. Most people will fuck it up." It's really true. Give most people a basic office task to accomplish by a certain time, and they'll fuck it up. Ask them to do something that requires thinking outside the box, and they'll fuck it up. Call them and sit there for an hour dealing with tech support, sales, and customer service while they try to reconnect your high-speed internet account and they'll FUCK IT UP..

― daria g (daria g), Saturday, 25 September 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: 'are most people in this world incompetents?' Vs. 'good morning, midnight' Vs. john candy in 'plains, trains & automobiles'

― cºzen (Cozen), Saturday, 25 September 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

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