reference letters!

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oh, what fun!

i need three academic references. this will be a bit of a stretch as i graduated school back in the dark ages (1999) and, aside from my old advisor, i doubt any professors have particularly strong memories of me. i had one professor who is pretty famous, so i think (perhaps cynically) that i should ask him as well. unfortunately, while i did very well in two of his classes, i sort of bombed a third (never finished the final paper and ended up with a "c"). should i acknowledge this fact in my reference letter request or just prod him to remember my best work?

i'm also going to supplement my academic references with several work references, since i've spent the last five years working, after all.

i just received a friendly note from an old boss that he wants me to write the reference, and he'll rewrite it to suit him and then submit it. does this mean he's (a) not terribly excited about me; (b) really busy [he is really busy as a rule]; (c) lazy? should i think of this as an opportunity or something to worry about? and how in god's name do you write your own reference letter? i think of that pulp line about composing your own critical notices.

let's talk about reference letters.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 07:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Unfortunately that's generally what bosses say. Normally it's "write you're own reference and I'll sign it".

― Craig Gilchrist, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

One of my high school teachers had me help write my letter of reference and type it up for her.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

When I applied for grad school, several years after graduating college, it wasn't too much trouble (though I did have to politely hound one professor a bit) - I don't know how I'd get it done if I were applying now (seven years later).

Amateur!st, what kind of program are you applying for? (Just curious.)

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

They must be academic? Sometimes only two have to be academic and the rest can be.. I dunno, professional or what not. I had a former professor and a former editor write my last letters of rec. I'm not looking forward to doing this again in three or so years when I decide to give grad school another go.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

all three must be academic. i think to ask if i could only have two be academic would be like admitting defeat. as noted, i'll try to find three academic references and supplement those with two work references.

i'm applying for phd programs..

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

good luck, amateurist!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes... I hope you find a good program, and last longer in it than I did.

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

in what field are you applying for a phd??

― dave k, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Loads don't do letters anymore, they supply a telephone number instead.

― Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i've always wondered what my reference letters from high school said about me.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i had one professor who is pretty famous, so i think (perhaps cynically) that i should ask him as well

he said yes, and very nicely too. "the field could use someone of your intelligence." (i don't know if that's a slur on the field or not!)

i now have five reference letters on the way (well, i have yet to write the one). now i must study for gre's and start composing personal statements.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 05:48 (twenty-one years ago)

good luck dude!

'personal statements' yech.

― cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 1 October 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the branch managers of our temping agency division came to me the other day, saying that he thinks his staff have been writing reference letters for ex-clients and putting his and his boss's names on the bottom. He wanted to know how he could spy on his staff a little more actively, so I showed him how to use VNC to watch their desktops.

The next day, of course, one of his staff phoned up to say "My computer's started doing things BY ITSELF!" I had to call the manager back to tell him to be a little more subtle about it.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 1 October 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

that's fucking evil, caitlin

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I sat by idly observing this thread only to realize that I have to do this too - di you have luck with your old professors who may not have had much of a memory of you? I graduated in 2000 and have fears about this.

― The Bitter Tears Of Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 October 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, we'd already installed the relevant software for IT support purposes. It wasn't like we were deliberately putting in some convenient spying infrastructure; we just wanted to be able to fix software problems in that office without having to go for a 25-mile drive.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 1 October 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

When I needed references for my MA most of the faculty who'd taught me on my BA had left. I had to write to the head of department who never really knew me - he was very happy to give a ref though, I think people must get asked all the time and they can't remember EVERYONE. As long as they have access to your reports, grades etc they can cobble something together.

I'm currently stumped for a second ref on a job application though. My last boss has moved away and since I just left the board of the organisation I've been working with for 5 years I don't think I can ask the artistic director there for this stuff any more...

― Archel (Archel), Friday, 1 October 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

(oh, and it's our work policy that Nothing On Your PC Is Private, especially as far as the IT department is concerned. It was explained to me when I started; I assume it was explained to everyone else, too)

(admittedly, it was explained as "we don't have anything that's internally confidential, so if you think you need to look in someone's email database or at anything on their computers, do it")

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 1 October 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

tell me where you work and i'll remember not to apply for a job there! :-)

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

adam yr only 2 years older than me? for some reason i thought you were like, old man river.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

he *does* have a resonant barotone singing voice

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

as do i :)

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not old! And I have kind of high voice, though a definitively masculine one.

― The Bitter Tears Of Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Would it be wrong to request reference letters from previous professors even though I'm not applying to grad schools, just to find out what people say about me behind my back?

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I've done it!

― The Bitter Tears Of Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i have a shockingly deep voice for a girl.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://feverpitchquartet.com/photos/fpq_2002fall_15.jpg

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually read a referral letter once when i applied to grad schools... it was really good and made me feel rotten because i am a lousy human being and I had obviously fooled this professor.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Friday, 1 October 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It's completely okay to request letters from people who will most likely not remember you when it is several years down the line. One of the jobs of a professor is to write these letters so you shouldn't shy away from asking. My undergraduate did a really smart things, which was to let you file your rec letters on their special rep paper, and then they would just make copies and send them out as needed. It's ridiculous that institutions expect you to ask people to write letter over letter for you, on their own school forms, when students usually apply to at least 5-6 schools. You can offer to your professor to gather your transcripts, papers, maybe resume, anything else, and often it's recommended to include a letter summarr-
izing your achievements, so that when they need to write threir letter, they can just crib from yours. It's quite common for people to ask you to write it for them, also.

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 1 October 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for that, Mary!

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Sunday, 3 October 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Another q. - is it okay to have references from two professors at the same school? Like amateurist, I had a couple of fairly well-known people teach me and I want to cynically use their names for my own purposes. Well, why not?

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Sunday, 3 October 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course, you could use 3 professors from the same school--if students have only been to undergraduate, that is what they will do.

― Mary (Mary), Sunday, 3 October 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i don't see what else i can do, i've only ever attended one school.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 3 October 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I just sent off some emails. Now, the waiting...

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Sunday, 3 October 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

well two of the three professors writing me recs got back to me w/in 12 hours so maybe you won't have to wait long

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 3 October 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hooray, it did indeed work fast! I have just been asked to cobble together a paragraph of things it would be useful for them to mention. Fantastic.

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Monday, 4 October 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

now if only i can go back and change my undergrad transcript

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Monday, 4 October 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, yeah I just asked for mine and I kind of fear them. They have to be kept sealed though, don't they?

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Monday, 4 October 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

you should get a copy for yourself so you know what to expect if they ask you about it

i kept my old copy from graduation

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Monday, 4 October 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It's kind of frustrating that I excelled in classes that will have no relation to my MFA and was merely competent (and sometimes less so) in all the relevant units.

― Tous Les Garcons S'Appellent Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Monday, 4 October 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

my transcript is just weird. like: A+ A+ A C U

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Monday, 4 October 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, so I need to write a paragraph suggesting what I would like said about me. I am absolutely stumped.

― My Dinner With Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, now let's talk Personal Statements!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...

So, after all of my optimism upthread, it turns out that one of my references will not write anything until the beginning of December as he is shooting a feature and the other, after agreeing to do it, is not replying to any of my emails. What is the most tactful way to let these people know that I have deadlines coming up in a month's time and without their help I am screwed?

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I just got a great one today. That makes me very, very happy.

― Masonic Laundry Boom (kate), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam, could you ask your new employer to get in touch with them direct? Once they've agreed to provide the reference they can't really complain if your boss follows it up.

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's kind of lazy of them to expect you to get the reference letter yourself. Also, it opens up the possibility of you forging one.

Actually, that's an idea (not actual forgery). If they're being slow, why don't you say: "Look, I'll write it myself and forward the text to you for approval/editing".

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry if I wasn't being clear - these are academic reference letters, not for employment.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Write one up, I'll sign it.

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was supporting the computer system used in clearing at De Montfort University, one of the lecturers there produced the greatest reference letter I've ever seen. Obviously these days most people fear putting anything negative in, or are instructed not to do so. This one, from a college teacher, said "He sometimes turns up to classes and is often sober." A masterpiece.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Even something like that would do for me right now!!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

xxpost - You could try the same thing - ask the secretary of the department or equivalent to get in touch with the defaulter.

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Martin that's like "Your manuscript is both original and good..." etc

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It is beautiful - nothing actually negative, but a very clear negative message. Yes, that 'original and good' one is another gem.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

You could try the same thing - ask the secretary of the department or equivalent to get in touch with the defaulter.

After already speaking to my referee without results? This is a very delicate situation, it would seem.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Could you explain the situation to the secretary-person and see if they'll write without indicating you asked them to? It would just seem like a routine thing maybe

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Certainly worth a try.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Otherwise it might be time to send some large men round to have a friendly chat. That's me out of ideas.

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know any large men! :(

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.mailhollywood.com/pics/michael-chiklis-1419.jpg

Yes you do.

― Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok, small, Joe Pesci types then
xpost

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oooh ooh ooh! It's for fil-making isn't it? You could go round to the referee's house with a video camera and get in his face and ask him aggressively: "Why haven't you given me a reference, Professor Thing, if you are in fact a real professor?" just like they do on Watchdog. Not only would he be forced to give you a reference on the spot, but it would be a really good bit of film for your portfolio.

― beanz (beanz), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I am worried I won;t be able to get one from the place I worked in during the summer before they ship the whole thing to Brazil

― fcussen (Burger), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

five years pass...

so I'm in the rather ironic position of writing reference letters now for some of my students. trouble is, a lot of them are applying to the same university/programs. I remember when I was an undergrad, I got turned down by a prof because she was already writing a letter for another student for the same program. how big of a deal is this? I want to help my students, but I also don't want to make my letters worthless by flooding the universities.

― dyao, Thursday, 4 February 2010 23:49 (sixteen years ago)

i have never heard of that. maybe if the number of positions available was very limited and you felt like you would be playing favorites and downgrading others, that would be a good reason to decline.

― harbl, Friday, 5 February 2010 00:06 (sixteen years ago)

only write those that you feel comfortable writing (for those students you feel comfortable recommending). i don't think it's appropriate exactly to turn down one student simply because another was applying for the same program. you can recommend two people for the same position; it's the institution's decision to make essentially.

― wmlynch, Friday, 5 February 2010 00:17 (sixteen years ago)

^^^this

― tehresa, Friday, 5 February 2010 00:58 (sixteen years ago)

thanks guys. these students were all in the top quartile of my class, so I don't feel bad about writing for them, but am just worried of becoming the university of phoenix of reference letters.

― dyao, Friday, 5 February 2010 01:42 (sixteen years ago)

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