saying inflammatory things to 'get people thinking'

I think it's confusing that art kind of depends on being inflammatory.

I know someone who does this all the time, possibly thinking it's for our own good. In fact he is a rather tragic psycho and a cunt when he's drunk.

Saying what you mean is overrated.

I prefer big-eyed art and just fluff art, in general. Abstract and pointless or fluff. Statments annoy me, just like Michael Stipe.

i say what i think when i think it. i never really know if i mean anything. its dumb to do this, it means you are lacking in social skills and too hasty. i don't say inflammatory things to get people thinking, i say inflammatory things when i am angry and hurt and don't know what else to do, and i don't expect what i say to have any effect on anyone, cos often i feel like no-one is listening to me, even though they probably are, its just i'm so clumsy.

Yeah exactly. While wildly exaggerating your stance (or generally being shocking) does have a certain value, which is mainly that it really does people's attention very effectively; I can't help but feel that there's still something a bit suspect in doing it in any kind of premeditated way. It's way arrogant. Or something.

I only say inflammatory things on art-related threads.

people who talk about art but don't make art are parasites.

KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS KUNI LINKUS

Ranks right down there with people who say only bland things, "To make conversation"

Artists are parasites.

People who talk about art are the reason for art to exist.

I say things quite often - here especially, not so much in conversation because it gets tiresome - to see if I do mean them - an, OK let's explore this, kind of thing. Often nobody replies, often a lot of people reply and give convincing counter-arguments and I change my mind quite quickly. This tends to be about pop music, not art or politics.

I say things which I mean in order to get people thinking. Anyone got a problem with that?

I understood that this was the point of having discussion boards in the first place.

None of us is here to confirm each other's perspective.

you're so vain, i bet you think this thread is about you... :)

but seriously, being contrary for the sake of it, when you don't mean it and specifically to get people's backs up and then saying 'oh it was just to get you thinking' is just being an arsehole. if you do mean it fine, but don't act all self-righteous when a volley of complaints comes your way.

When I think of all the trouble the year of new racism has gotten us into, I wish I had never tried to provoke people.

I do this occasionally but usually as a natural upshot of whatever discussion I'm having and often find it isn't a particularly useful way of continuing the discourse. You may say something contreversial to make people think, but actually all you have made them think is what a twat you are.

I'm with Pete and Katie on this one; most of the time an Inflammatory Statement is all about its progenitor wanting attention and not being able to get it via normal, rational means.

What really drives me bonkers is 'ironic' conservative statements from liberals. If I want a glimpse of the true meaning of irony I just project to 20 years in the future when those seeds of oh-so-cool dissent grow to form sexist, racist, homophobic, reactionary, bread- headed IDIOTS. Otherwise known as losing the idealism of youth.

its all about being CONTROVERSIAL innit? you see, you can be a true INDIVIDUAL and not kowtow to the SHEEP that are the CONSENSUS, coz they're too SCARED to say what they REALLY think (bound by social convention and sitting on the fence!).

and most people don't have the BRAIN to understand just how CONTROVERSIAL you really can be, so it is IMPORTANT to put it in CAPITALS!

RIGHT! BE QUIET AT THE BACK OF THE CLASS AND LISTEN!! STOP PICKING YOUR NOSES! ELBOWS OUT OF THE INKWELLS!

Here is a comprehensive guide to how I operate.

If I am presented with POSITIVES I will receive them warmly, enjoy them and respond in kind.

If I am presented with NEGATIVES I will react in such a way that said negative will need to be justified exhaustively.

THE TWO ESSENTIAL CRITERIA WHICH ENTITLE YOU TO HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT ANYTHING:

Firstly, once you have decided that you wish to have an opinion, you must research your fields thoroughly.

Secondly, and more importantly, once you have formulated an opinion and wish to express it, verbally or in writing, you must be 100% certain that expressing said opinion will do more good than bad. If you have the slightest bit of doubt, keep it to yourself.

I am privileged of course insofar as I have no opinions whatsoever and therefore no polemic baggage. I fully expect everything which I say or argue to be questioned and, if necessary, amended. Opinions not amended = a life not worth having.

On a gut level, of course:

FITE!!!!

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now class, back to your Socrates. Remember what I told you about the life unexamined . . .

Gareth: ;-P

Marcello: Sir, I need to wee. May I be excused?

No boy, you shall wee in the desk like everyone else! Builds CHARACTER!!

Now back to your Ecce Romani declensions, viz.:-

Bam Bas Bat Bamus Batis Bant!

didn't we just do this?

But Sir, if I wee in the desk it's a health and safety issue. If I retain the wee you put me at risk of kidney stones exacerbated by the stress of going to this god-forsaken school, not to mention renal poisoning. If either of these things happen you will be invited to join the 21st Century with a writ from My Daddy The Lawyer.

WEE! NOW! And if you're a good teacher, you can even WATCH and I won't tell Daddy.

Romani eunt domus?

mingo mingere minxi mictum!!

If I'm late into the studio because of you lot, there'll be hell to pay.

I understand, totally, the appeal of saying controversial things to get people to think. Playing devil's advocate is a very powerful tool - IN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. (Sorry, for caps, Gareth, I do actually agree heartily with point made in your post.) In order to play Devils Advocate, you have to know very well your and have a *respect* for the people you are Devils adocating, or else it turns very nasty very quickly.

First off, the respect thing. Apart from, as others have pointed out, the attention seeking element, it is also highly patronising to assume that you have anything better to say or believe than those whose opinions you are provoking. People do not like to feel that they are being played with.

And then there is the degree of how well you know the people that you are provoking. This is a strange setting, because some of us know each other fairly well off-board, while others view us as near strangers known only by screen name. That's a dangerous combination. Someone who knows you well will be able to say, "Oh, that's just how s/he is, they're just thinking out loud, because normally they are a decent and kind human being" while people whose only experience of you is as a line of times new roman DO NOT have any perspective to see you as anything other than an attention grabbing opinionated ass. I've learned this lesson the hard way, and this is why I ultimately stopped.

Shit, I'm going to miss my train.

He he he he he schooldays! My word that brings back some golden old memories as was caned by vile but fair schoolmaster 27 times a day used to drag me attractively to head's office and embellish cane for purposes pleasure chiefly thus explain much later life exempli gratia when Pepe and I were going to Israel Land of the Golden Sunset Treasure Isle and we had to go through point check at El-Al and they are very strict there d'you know two very tall young gentleman very personable if I may say so required me to strip down to nude nay naked my what a scream and manipulated all known and sundry unknown parts told chaps do I get a frogmarch. And only other one that does that is Aer Lingus very appropriate and anyway they ask me are you terrorist give names addresses telephone numbers of all people on earth who are terrorists hence did my duty and let through but restaurants Tel-Aviv superb scrumptious and only had minimal baggage long johns and several classical style books to lend to Kabul Borough Council as pass via Afghan en route return to Acton East very good books mark you got some very good write-ups Archer Geoffrey good books there's that Not More Money More Less Pence but the duty taxed it was a duty to pay worse than Ealing council tax but to be expected as council Ealing run by socialists Tebbit Thatcher socialists. But school for all! Schools at sea? D'you know, I don't think there were are any.

Dear Marcello, I am going to put you in a carrying case and bring you around with me so I may be entertained when needed. Fear not, I will feed you bread crusts.

I have embarked upon this board to raise two key points which have been hitherto inexplicably omitted from the great debate.

Firstly, may I point out, and I intend to point it out fully as this is a free democracy, that people in this country have opinions and we are fully entitled to said opinions. If any inroads are attempted with the intended purpose of hijacking aforementioned opinions from the British public, I fully intend to warn you that the full impact of Para 2 will be felt atop your corpus as per Port Stanley on that golden Sunday morning in 1982. Do not dare to correct my views, as this is a free country and I will not embark upon a journey terminating at a camp, if that is agreeable with you Mr Hitler Bin Laden Blair!

Secondly - and I fully intend to express the latter of the two key, and in my view criminally neglected, points, as this is a democracy, whatever you might imagine, Mr Euro Kaiser Brown - I shall argue and argue until my opinions, as with all those expressed by the British people, rightly or wrongly, are accepted as the gospel which drove our empire ship to engulf the world in our benign salt.

I have stated my case. Kindly ensure that it is noted and added as an addendum to your alleged agenda.

Ah Suzy, just wee on me now, I need my salvation, for sure.

Big- eyed art! yes!

leave my thoughts alone, please. They're inflammed enough as is.

Aaargh! WTF was that big eyed HORROR?

Keane kids are indeed frightening. We have a pair of them in our bedroom.

Really? I would be afraid to go to sleep with those big eyes STARING at me. Of course, I am a wimp.

Well it's off to the side. There's a big red velvet painting of ships directly across from the bed so I can look at it and pretend to be asail as I fall asleep. And then dream of pirates.

We just need some fluff art now. No gags about Alan Freeman please.

Fluff art != fluffer art, which is what I originally read.

I'm down with velvet paintings, but have always been frightened of Keane kids and the paintings of hoboes & clowns that were popular in the seventies. There's just something ark & sinister about them.

They give me the howling willies.

no! no! too many rude things to say about howling willies! someone help me!

Fluff art != fluffer art, which is what I originally read.

I AM NOT SURPRISED, YOUNG MAN. Now put that thing back in your pants and stand in the corner.

That's ACE I am going to get one (see, it made me think ahaaaa).

I think Pete and Katie said what I think above. I also think it's rather lazy to say something and then refuse to back it up if it provokes an arguement. In fact it REALLY GETS ON MY WICK. Incidentally, I think Gareth was trying to be inflammatory with his abuse of capitals, it hasn't worked though HA.

(When I said I'd get one I meant a howling willy, of course ahem)

If you say something and people dont think you mean it it's generally a sign you're saying something interesting. (I'm not sure I actually believe that, but it's a defense mechanism.)

I have no idea what a howling willy is but it doesn't sound good.

Howlin' Willy abbabbabbaba master of the blues with Bill Wyman and the Rhythm! Kings! Acidmotherstempleacoustic! Boogie woogie bottleneck magic.

people who talk about art but don't make art are parasites.

OK, this has been resonating in my head all day in its wrongness. Before I start ranting, Rainy, were you taking the piss or do you really believe this?

People who talk about art could be curators, critics, collectors, or members of the public with a right to express their opinion. All of these people have a relevant contribution to make, which includes placing value on the art, which allows artists to make a decent living. It's only cool to be a starving artist for a limited time. I think it only fair that something which brings enjoyment to so many people be properly compensated for!

Talking about art = art. huzzah! cough. [also, I think most Art since hrm 1920 or so = talking about art, but with paint and other things instead of a typewriter]

Hey lookit, rainy got us thinking!

talking = art
art = talking

art + discourse = cultcha!

therefore, artists + parasites = cultcha. But artists are parasites, so culture is a parasite. Parasite on what though?

the petri dish of everything

I never say anything I don't mean or believe in. Of course my opinion could change, nothing is set in stone and all that. I don't want to trick people into responding to something I didn't mean in the first place. That's not fair.

It's pretty cunning really. OK theres always the idea of saying something really stupid to get people mad, not thinking, which can be fun, sort of mental sparring, but pretty annoying after a while. But then theres saying something you know will annoy someone and then in whatever way show them up as not being as high and moral as they might think. Loaded questions or statements I guess.

Also arguing points of view you are not in favour of=classic.

Flexing intellectual muscles or whatever. I'd describe incidents but they never seem as funny through ILE. Or maybe they're just not funny, either way.

"people who talk about art and don't make art are parasites"

This was summed up in spray paint (on a cement wall) at the San Francisco Art Institute: those who can, do. Those who can't, do Critical Studies.

well its a sport I guess. A friend of mine mocks people professionally, I just say something that will wind them up. I don't like to say what I think or what I mean, i can't be bothered with that kind of exposure

kate, i was attemptinhg to be inflammatory.