The Man Who Wasn't There. Were you?

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Lots of people who saw it (COen Brothers fans - a phenomenenon we have discussed elsewhere I think) said that when they went to see this move they too wished they "wasn't there" too. Me, I liked it.

I might tell you why I liked it later, but did y'all have a penchant for Billy Bob Thornton's (Kate Thornton's second cousin!) emotionally distant noir inhabitant.

― Pete, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I haven't seen it yet, please give away no plot details. or maybe I shall just avoid this thread..

― chris, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm avoiding this thread too as I'm a man who's not there yet.

― Tom, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's all rather Bergmanesque really.

― Bergman Comparing Person, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As a man who was there, and a man who was happy to be there, I clearly approve of the movie. It really had some fine moments, and managed the neat trick that I could *never* tell what was about to happen next -- or what kind of ending it would have. This, generally, I like. Stop reading now if you don't want to know what those moments were -- in general I think reading a thread about a movie you haven't seen yet is just *asking* for spoilers...

Scarlett J offering to blow Billy Bob B is king shock moment; the whole 'is there going to be a sci-fi conclusion' thing also seemed great. In fact all the points where the movie teetered on the verge of flicking itself into another genre entirely seemed just fine and dandy. Enough Coen Bros. grand-standing crowd-pleasers, but not *too* many...

I couldn't give a damn whether this was better or worse than any other named Coen Bros movie, so there was no question of being disappointed, and ranked alongside all the other films I *could* have seen, it kicked ass.

― alext, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It was quite extraordinary really, how the Coen brothers managed to make a film whose central character is essentially so characterless, without alienating or boring their audience.

Yet succeed they did. Ironically, it was the man's emotional distance that made the film so engaging, as his responses to life's misfortunes turned every Hollywood cliche on its head. I loved the deadpan humour of this film, especially in the interaction (or lack thereof) between Ed Crane and his wife.

― Trevor, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I liked it a lot. It reminded me of Sartre. if you haven't been to see it yet though and you smoke make sure you have a fag as late as you can before settling down because you will be gasping for one by the time the credits roll.

― Jonnie, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought it was magnificent - their best film.

― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good points:

* Jimmy's violent death. V. shocking to see (and hear!) something this gruesome in such an otherwise faithful noir homage. You NEVER saw violence like this in those old movies.
* Billy Bob's face. I'm ready to call it the best face in American cinema.
* The care in construction. All the parts just fit together like a secret machine. Neat.
* The comment abt Sartre is so right. A man jumps out of his own skin for one moment, tries to supercede his own existence, and pays for it in spades, despite all his best intentions.
* It seems like the Cohens actually give a shit about their characters this time around. At least to a degree.
Bad points:

* I haven't really thought about this movie once until now.
* Acting styles vary wildly. BB, Frances McDormand, and the girl from Ghost World are naturalistic. Everyone else, in varying degrees, is a broad collection of tics and traits. This is just a lazy shorthand substitute for actually directing your actors to convey the point you want to make. It's a lack of nerve.

No way is it better than Raising Arizona. But what movie is?

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One of the things I like about it is that I can't predict how people are going to react - people who "just love" the Coens being against it, people who don't like them that much get evangelical about it. Much more successful in the UK than in the US, but then the Coens always are. Me? I liked it a lot - there's a review I wrote somewhere on the web but I can't be arsed to link to it - because Billy Bob was great, because Scarlet J was terrific, because it's just the most beautiful looking film and - as somebody already said - it's utterly unpredictable. Oh, and a useful intro to existentialism.

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ditto to all the above really. Especially the emotional investment the Coens appear to have put into this emotionless character. The greatest criticism against the Coens in the past has been this lack of investment - here it not only comes up in spades but also manages to partially explain away that previous lack. The Coens are detatched like Thornton, observers content with observation. The danger is when we break the rules, when we think we have every angle covered.

There is that dichotomy of acting in the film, the "bring your ticks along" actors are unsurprisingly the Coen regulars. The cinematography - especially on BB's craggy face is astonishing. BUt mostly I loved its allusions to both noir - but in particular fifties sci-fi B-movies. Thornton was reminiscent of Michael Rennie in the Day The Earth Stood Still - which had a hubcap flying saucer in it too.

Slow, but great.

― Pete, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>>> Scarlett J offering to blow Billy Bob B is king shock moment

With respect, what nonsense. This was THE ONE PREDICTABLE THING IN THE WHOLE FILM, and it was RUBBISH. SHOCKING CHALLENGING MODERN CINEMA would = SEXUAL ENCOUNTER DOES *NOT* OCCUR BETWEEN SWEET GIRL AND OLD GEEZER. Wake me up when *that* happens.

That *aside*,

>>> I thought it was magnificent - their best film.

I agree utterly. Hey - do you want to be my Producer?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've not seen this one yet but I must say I have never understood the criticism Pete refers to. Either it seems irrelevant to some of their films, or it seems to just be false.

― Josh, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It didn't remind me of anything but I was astonished that anyone living today could have written a movie like this. I thought it was great.

― Kris, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

great, great, great film.

― Will, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OK, now I have seen it, and while I think what Kris says about is very nice, I wonder about his reaction. Aren't the Coens' own previous movies something of a sign that someone alive today can write movies like this? (That is to say, this movie wasn't a total surprise.)

― Josh, Thursday, 22 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And its not so muchthe writing of the film (I bet there are plenty of film scripts which are equally uunpredicatble knocking around out there) but the fact it got made. Remember even the Coens cannot get every product off the ground. Their almost silent Brad Pitt in Vietnam movie couldn't get backers at all.

― Pete, Thursday, 22 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, I *was* shocked. But then I know nothing about these Film things, anyway.

― alext, Thursday, 22 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I saw it Sunday night. I liked it though I don't think I liked it as much as The Hudsucker Proxy, the only other Coens I've seen.

So did Dave actually beat Tolliver to death before he tried to kill Ed? If he did, how did dry cleaning take off afterwards? At first I thought Tolliver's was the car that Ed ran into.

Bertie, the only character who seems to arouse any emotional reaction in Ed, was kind of enigmatic. It was always ambiguous how she really felt about anything. It was interesting that in terms of the main story, Ed's overall story, her making a move on him serves the function of being the occasion for him to have an accident and she never reappears.

― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If he did, how did dry cleaning take off afterwards?

Err.. other people? Tolliver didn't invent dry cleaning. He just saw it as a great new business opportunity.

― Nick, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>>> "It was

interesting

that in terms of the main story, Ed's overall story, her making a move on him serves the function of being the occasion for him to have an accident and she never reappears."

'Interesting'? Use other adjectives please.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OOOh - get him.

― Nick, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

OK, right, so I was just thinking of it like The Hudsucker Proxy where the guy invented the hula hoop. Thanks.

Get who? Me? I thought it was interesting. I didn't have any further insights into it at the time.

― sundar, asking dumb but honest questions, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No 'get the pinefox' with his sarkiness is what I meant.

― Nick, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eight months pass...

I finally got round to seeing this last night and thought it was grebt. Good old Pinefox. Good old Coens. I didn't sense any emotional investment though - or no more so than usual.

― Tom, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nine years pass...

minor coens

― dayo, Saturday, 22 October 2011 17:04 (fourteen years ago)

This was a 'concept' movie, but it never seemed to be a concept that came alive for me. You can see how they came up with the nubbin of the concept. The title probably came to them long before the script did. But the concept was problematic for a movie script to encompass and they never really solved its problems in a cinematically satisfactory way, imo. I give them credit for trying. A solid 'B' effort.

― Aimless, Sunday, 23 October 2011 02:20 (fourteen years ago)

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