is it morally wrong for a man to have gay sex with his brother?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

I don't know. Is it incest or not?

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

In what way could it not be incent?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't make freak babies out of it

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

which by that definition, it's morally okay to have protected sex with your sister.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

erk.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i like to hear markH's reasoning though.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Not if the man in question is an artist and therefore the architect of his own moral universe.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but the fall out could make family get-togethers majorly awkward.

Incest taboos are pretty foundational, but they're also cashed out differently from culture to culture (marrying cousins are the obv. example). Are there any cultures where brotherly incest is permitted? Any anthro majors in the house?

― Drew Daniel, Monday, 25 October 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not even sure it's MORALLY wrong for a man to have protected sex with his sister. They wouldn't be hurting anyone. It's just deeply taboo, not to mention a bit fucked up.

― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it morally wrong for a man to have straight sex with his brother?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

'a bit'

morals can only be defined by people right? in accordance with religious doctrine, also interpreted defined by people. ergo yes of course it is incest and morally wrong because a lot of people say so.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This reminds me of Alan Keyes's recent railing against gay adoption, because a child who doesn't know one of their biological parents runs the risk of running into a sibling somewhere and accidentally fucking them! (Of course, I'm not sure why it's gay adoption specifically that rankles him: seems like that would be true of any adopted kids!)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't make freak babies out of it

You're not trying hard enough.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel very strongly that consenting adults can do whatever they want in the bedroom, but I feel just as strongly that birth/disease control should be a major precaution.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

it was the non-procreative thing which came to mind first. Apparently, we don't fancy our siblings coz we grew up with them...it is that which instills the incest taboo in our minds. So presumably a gay man would not fancy his brother if they grew up together, but could conceivably do so if he didn't.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, in some cases, it is a stronger sibling forcing themselves, at least initially, on the weaker one which isn't much different from a parent molesting their own child.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

otm

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

That would count as abuse at best and rape at worst, though, which would definately be immoral. If it could be proved that they were both truly consenting and had taken precautions against freak babies it shouldn't be considered immoral. In my own highly subjective opinion.

― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, this thread is particularly interesting to me. One day when I was complaining about my coworkers telling anti-gay jokes, my sister said that she felt my pain, but that also I should consider what I feel about incest. If I feel incest is wrong, why is that any worse than other people saying homosexuality is wrong? I can't say I totally agree with her, but it helped me be slightly less angry at them.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Incest is the privelege of royalty.

― Hank Tenbeer (kenan), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

And the obligation of royalty.

― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

So that's the answer to the question. If you're royalty, antyhing goes. Otherwise, no.

― Hank Tenbeer (kenan), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

there was a (not too)old thread in which the spectrum of 'morality' re incest, beastiality position in relation to less taboo sex acts was discussed. very thought provoking, and amusing.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm "pro" incest among consenting adults. It's fucked up for sure, but so is people's love for wrestling.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 25 October 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"Are there any cultures where brotherly incest is permitted?"

Royal incest: The Hawaiian royal family didn't want to dilute the bloodline, so sister loving was required. You gotta do what you gotta do.

― andy, Monday, 25 October 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Pro Incest, is that like those twin sisters that always go on Howard Stern to plug their pornos where they fuck each other?

(AaronHz here, changed my name again)

― From a Land of Grass Without Mirrors (AaronHz), Monday, 25 October 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahaha yeah

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 25 October 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe some ancient Egyptian dynasties were exclusivly propogated through brother/sister relationships.

― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The Ptolemies, no? Or was it the native dynasties earlier?

― Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a weird thread.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it an advice thread? I didn't even know Mark had a brother.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh... The first one you said.

xxpost

― Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

My sister said that she felt my pain, but that also I should consider what I feel about incest.

Was she trying to chat you up?

I've got a friend (who has no sisters), who claimed this (that the only problem with sibling relationships was the potential for pregnancy). I pointed out that since his mother was post menopause, his argument meant he could fuck her, if he wanted. So he changed his mind.

Not sure what I think either way, but don't feel it's a decision I'm ever going to need to make, really.

― JimD (JimD), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

His mother was his sibling? That's one fucked up family.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

his dad had sex with his sister who gave birth to him

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

he shouldn't have sex with her, then.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Later?

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

with jules holland?

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

now, maybe.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Um...I said that if incest wasn't wrong if there was no chance of pregnancy, then motherfucking was, for him, ok.

― JimD (JimD), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

not if she's also his sister, dude.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

the chance of pregnancy is dramatically improved when your mother is also your sister

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

[sigh]

I'm going to bed.

― JimD (JimD), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

On my own.

― JimD (JimD), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

is it incest to be sleeping with yourself

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

do you live with your parents?

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:42 (twenty-one years ago)

No but it's gay to wank. Or even look at your own knob, really.

xpost

― JimD (JimD), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm definitely gay in that case.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

gay, as in happy, festive, etc.

xpost

― joseph pot (STINKOR™), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX is too into incest these days

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

They more or less did incest on Neihbours recently ya know. Well no shagging, but Neighbours dont go that far anyway.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What happened when Todd and Cody (who were not siblings) went off to that little den to consumate their revolting union?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

the revolting union was quashed by Red Helen

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha Jeanne "birth/disease"

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have a brother, for Alba and anyone else who might be wondering.

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Not having "freak babies" isn't really the ethical center of incest, I don't think. In fact, not having "freak babies" isn't really a consistent moral concern for anyone: if two disabled people loved each other and wanted to have a child -- a child that would, let's say, unavoidably have a serious inherited disability -- I kind of wonder who here would say they should be stopped.

I think the incest prohibition is supposed to work about the same way as laws against suicide: the practical assumption is that no one in a healthy state of mind would desire to do either of those thigns, so it gets used as an intervention point to try and straighten them out more generally. Which is complete bullshit as a piece of moral logic, but in a practical sense it can be made to work: the vast majority of not-terminally-ill people who try to kill themselves, for instance, can easily be gotten to the point where they change their mind. The same cultural assumption gets made about something like incest -- it's such a strong taboo that one assumes anyone who hasn't internalized it clearly has some larger psychological abnormality to deal with.

The obvious problem with that reasoning, though: it allows a culture to proscribe nearly anything -- including, say, homosexuality -- and then decide that anyone who hasn't properly internalized that proscription has a "problem."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The main thing I've taken away from this thread so far is that Freak Babies would be a good band name.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I kind of wonder who here would say they should be stopped.

would the child have any right to this? (retroactively, of course) can you blame your own parents for your birth?!?

― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I don't think you can blame anyone else.

― JimD (JimD), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.