abc and this "terrorist" video

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so is this rove's october surprise? and i love how drudge is critical of abc keeping the video to try and authenticate it before releasing it, as if that is some sort of assault on democracy. who can blame them after the cbs fiasco? i have strong suspicions about this being a hoax, does this make me a hyper paranoid nut job?

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Any asshole could make this tape.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haha god drudge is soooo lame

is linked from the logo on front page: http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

He's grasping at straws, to say the least.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that the term for it these days?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Grandiose threats like these emerge from somewhere in the world seemingly every week. Even if this one is genuine, how is it any different from the usual "the streets will run with rivers of blood" rhetoric?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

If this is the "October surprise": 1. They're running it pretty close to the wire, it's less than a week 'til the election, and 2. I doubt this would have a serious effect, even if it was real. Americans know that there is still the threat of terrorism, and Kerry supporters think that Kerry will do a better job of taking care of this threat while Bush thinks Bush will. So I'm not sure why Rove would think this would be helpful to the Bush campaign.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

That should be "Bush supporters think Bush will."

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I say "the streets will run with rivers of blood" all the time.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

it plays right along with the "wolves" ad and the general fear mongering over terrorism

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I say "the streets will run with rivers of blood" all the time.

I agree that's often more effective than simply telling patrons their privileges will be suspended.

What IS the current color-code for 'the threat' anyway?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

But I don't understand how these fear tactics are supposed to sway undecided voters over the Bush.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the old fashioned, cookie cutter references to 'rivers of blood' thing. Why not 'creeks of spinal fluid' or 'streams of gastro-intestinal juices'?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

"Don't change horses in midstream" .. even if the horse is drowning?

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

'oceans of bile'

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

CIA reveals that actually the tape is a bootleg of Taxi Driver poorly dubbed in Urdu.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Why not 'creeks of spinal fluid' or 'streams of gastro-intestinal juices'?
Because that would be disgusting.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Polls (and my experience) show that people concerned with terrorism foremost are much more likely to vote for Bush. Increased fear is proportional with an increased desire for a supposedly "strong" leader. Plus, Americans are generally pretty fearful anyway.

After watching a documentary on Rove and hearing him speak a ton, I wouldn't hesitate to pin a tape like this on him. However, would he have the person blaming it specifically on Bush?

― Richard K (Richard K), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd think so -- Bush's supporters believe that the terrorists hate Bush because he's such a powerful leader and is ridding the world of their kind.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. 'Cause a vote for Kerry is a vote for the terrorists.

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"Rivers of Blood" has an nice end-times connotation to it - the apocalyptic never becomes cliched.

I thought they hated Bush for the same reasons they hate the US - because hes so good, and their evil souls are encious of his love for good things, like freedom.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

oh man, that sounds right. And depressing.

― Richard K (Richard K), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, 'rivers of blood' is a very incendiary racist phrase in Britain. Tony, start backing away NOW.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Powell ruined that phrase. What a shame - do you think this guy is a Tory as well as a terrorist?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Toryrist?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Under Bush, at least the streets run with blood on time.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

the guy who made the tape is John Walker Lindh part. 2

a metalhead goat farmer from Riverside, CA

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Everything wonderful comes from Riverside, doesn't it? Ew.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't it say in the article that they don't know who made this tape?

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

The terrorist's face is concealed by a headdress, and he speaks in an
American accent, making it difficult to identify the individual.

US intelligence officials believe the man on tape may be Adam Gadhan - aka Adam Pearlman, a California native
who was highlighted by the FBI in May as an individual most likely to
be involved in or have knowledge of the next al Qaeda attacks.

According to the FBI, Gadahn, 25, attended al-Qaida training camps and served as an al-Qaida translator.

The disturbing tape runs an hour -- the man simply identifies himself as 'Assam the American.'

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The headdress conceals what I suspect to be "Assam the American's" unusually long chin, if you acquire my drift.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean Assam is actually Jay Leno?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

some more info about gadhan at anus.com.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

An hour!?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Somehow I love el sabor's post as a sentence more than anything else I've read today.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Yahoo: "The source added that linguistic experts who have examined the tape believe the man, who identifies himself only as 'Assam the American,' learned English at a very young age but is not a native speaker of the language."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

ninn.org: "As not a single tape has been released to the American press before the Arab media, the tape's release will surely raises questions about it being politically engineered."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't believe I clicked on a link called "anus.com" but I'm glad I did. The death metal/islamic extremism connection is now clear.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3742-2004Oct27.html

A network producer obtained the tape over the weekend from an intermediary in Pakistan -- who charged a $500 transportation fee -- and ABC's New York headquarters got a feed of the video Monday, network executives said. They said they sent copies to the FBI and CIA, which have been unable to identify the speaker -- who says he is an American and is brandishing automatic weapons -- after comparing his voice to those of known terrorists. ABC hired two linguists who concluded that English was not the speaker's native tongue. For example, he cited the country of Yemen as "the Yemen."

The officials, who declined to be identified because the administration is not commenting on the matter, say investigators do not believe the man on the tape is Adam Gadahn, a California-born Muslim convert identified by the FBI in May as an al Qaeda member wanted for questioning.

― W i l l (common_person), Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I've heard native English speakers refer to Yemen as "the Yemen" before. Doesn't seem very conclusive to me.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

and if he had been in the middle east for some time, wouldn't he have picked up on some speech patterns that would affect his own? i thnk that is a fairly common circumstance.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I was thinking that too - I've heard lots of people say 'The Yemen' - mostly Americans, I think, and not necessarily people I would consider knowledgeable about the middle east, but nonetheless it does seem a not uncommon useage.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never heard anybody say "The Yemen" in my life.
I am sure that the linguistic analysts employed by the intelligence agencies of the united states are fucking morons who don't know their ass from a jar of olives. That makes good sense.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i just think that when you are in a certain area for an extended period of time, or even converse with those who are, you pick up some phrases. for example, i know that i am one of the very few kentuckians who ever describe anything as "twee". and it is because i read ilx, not because i am secretly british.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(Emily then said 'pip pip, cheerio' to her friends as she went 'down the pub.')

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

at any rate this video is a no-show as far as I can tell.
Certainly not anybody's idea of an October surprise. Rove has been bluffing all along, he ain't got shit.
"Rivers of blood" - does this phrase actually strike fear into anybody? Are the bad terrorists going to bomb my subway because we let the gays marry in massachusetts?
A 75-minute rant warning of an attack that never comes is a poor, poor showing for the dastardly Al-Qaeda. OH NO, THEY HAVE VHS EDITING MACHINES AND AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. I remember when they didn't have to be so afraid to show their faces.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure everyone realizes this, but I will write it: Assam the American may make more revealing linguistic slips than "the Yemen" that were not leaked (or were leaked but not for publishing) to the reporter. I would certainly hope this is the case because I would like to believe that linguists working for the government do know their ass from a jar of olives.

― W i l l (common_person), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"' I see wars, horrid wars, the Tiber foaming
with much blood. You shall have your Simois
your Xanthus, and your Doric camp; already
there is in Latium a new Achilles.'" Aeneid, Book 6, lines 122-5

But the translation of the tape just says the streets will run with blood, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not doubting the ability of the linguistic analysts (at least not here), merely saying that I have heard the phrase several times, and it stood out because it was odd. Possibly the reporter doesn't know what they are talking about. Either way, they probably do have better reasons to assume the speaker doesn't speak english as a first language, because basing it on 'The Yemen' would be rediculous.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Well that was the ABC linguists who said that anyway, I'm sure the CIA et alia haven't released any of their findings yet beyond "it's NOT Gadahn" and will be careful with what they do allow to be published.

For all we know Al-Qaeda has descended into self-parody and some fellas got bored and decided to make the tape as a satire, hey dude, do the "Assam The American" thing again and let's tape it! Then after a couple weeks they needed some more dough so they ripped off ABC for a few benjamins in exchange for a copy.

Rivers of blood, man!!

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"rivers of blood, yadda yadda yadda, dirty infidels, blah blah blah, kill americans hate the jews long live -- what is it again? -- oh, islam. fuck bush. go cougars!"

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

k3rry brings up an interesting point: is some of what Assam says an allusion or reference to Islamic texts or theology (probably NOT to Greek mythology, tho ;), as is the case with pronouncements bin Laden and other confirmed al Qaeda members have made? "Rivers of blood" seems far too generic to me. It suggests to me that this guy is either not who he says he is, or is maybe loosely connected with al Qaeda -- perhaps a foot soldier acting on his own rather than on orders from on high. But again, I don't know if there's more to the message that hasn't been released.

― W i l l (common_person), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Rivers of blood just sounds like a Metallica lyric to me.

― J (Jay), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, that was my point - it doesn't say 'rivers of blood', it says 'the streets will run with blood', which is pretty banal.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

the dude just saw the shining too many times

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

the dude just saw the shining too many times. the tape ends with him yelling REDRUM REDRUM over and over.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Virgil = Roman, if you're into being all creeped out by symbolism, which I'm not, if the guy's an American, Yanc3y's probably OTM.

― k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

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