Do Americans really have an irony deficit?

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Or is this just cultural myth?

― do i hear 21, Friday, 29 October 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Just finish your new album already, Scott.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Scott Stapp?

― Huk-L, Friday, 29 October 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Scott Stapp singing "Farmer in the City" would be enough to cause me to depart this world posthaste.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Irony's not fair to the vast amounts of stupid people we have grazing between the coasts. It's a matter of equality and exploitation.

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

for Christmas i hope Santa brings me 'registered users only ILX'

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

probably we should eat more dark green veggies and red meat.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Americans invent irony? I'm sure I've seen the commemorative coin at my weekly numismatics club meeting.

― Huk-L, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

bah I was going to make zincy and niaciny jokes but Emily beat me to the punch

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Americans totally have an irony deficit. That statement couldn't be more accurate. Don't you think?

― briania (briania), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Blackadder: "Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?"
Baldrick: "Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron."

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Who are the ironic Americans?
Mark Twain?

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Most probably don't, however I have met some who do, and I haven't met many Europeans who do to the same extent. I don't know if I'd call it an irony deficit, I think some Americans just have an extremely odd sense of humour.

I remember I had a friend in school from Boston, he had lived in Ireland as a child and come back and stuff, and he always seemed sort of Irish, then when we were about 18 his friends finally saved the cash to come and see him and he was all "you have to meet my friends!" and stuff.

Their sense of humour involved mercilessly mocking each other but basically just saying "yeah FUCKHOLE", "SHUT IT FATASS", "SCREW YOU DIPSHIT", "YEAH SCREW YOUR MOM".

I presume these people were just assholes and not representative of America as a whole but nonetheless I was amazed at how well educated people could be so fucking thick. I guess the stupidity comes in different forms here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I should have thought that most of the world's supply of irony comes from the U.S.

Add Mencken, Parker and Benchley to the list.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

however all that said this thread is likely to end in ridiculously ott American rhetorical "jostling".

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, Canadians invented irony...no wait, I'm thinking of snowmobiles.

― Huk-L, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronan, that sounds more representative of Boston teenagers than anything else. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Or possibly just Teenagers?

― Huk-l, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

In America, irony sits close to bald-face lying.

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

they were 19 at the time.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

DEPARTMENT OF ENGLISH LITERATURE
FOURTH YEAR HONOURS COURSE 2004-2005
SEMESTER TWO - OPTION COURSE
AMERICAN IRONY
COURSE ORGANISER: DR KEITH HUGHES

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This course will look at ironic American narratives. We will be particularly concerned with the ways in which irony, trickery and satire emerge from certain ideas of American identity: national, regional, racial and sexual. More general ideas regarding irony as a mode of discourse will also inform the seminars.

Primary Texts
Edgar Allan Poe, ‘The Purloined Letter’, ‘The Gold Bug’ & Essays

Herman Melville, The Confidence-Man

Mark Twain, Pudd’nhead Wilson

Emily Dickinson, Poetry

Stephen Crane, ‘The Blue Hotel’ & ‘The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky’

Sinclair Lewis, Babbit

Damon Runyon, Guys and Dolls

Anita Loos, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes

Kurt Vonnegut, Galapagos

Ishmael Reed, Flight to Canada

Seminar Schedule
Week 1 Introduction: American Irony and National Trickery
Week 2 Poe, ‘The Purloined Letter’, ‘The Gold Bug’ & Essays
Week 3 Melville, The Confidence Man
Week 4 Twain, Pudd’nhead Wilson
Week 5 Dickinson, Poetry
Week 6 Crane, ‘The Blue Hotel’, ‘The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky’
Week 7 Lewis, Babbit
Week 8 Essay completion week
Week 9 Runyon, Guys and Dolls and
Loos, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
Week 10 Vonnegut, Galapagos
Week 11 Reed, Flight to Canada

Secondary Reading
Hutcheon, Linda, Irony's Edge: The Theory and Politics of Irony

Ralph Ellison, Shadow and Act

Henry James, The Art of the Novel

Gary Lindberg, The Confidence-Man in American Literature

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Back to list of Fourth Year courses for 2004-2005
Back to Honours Contents page
Go to: English Literature Home Page
Go to: Edinburgh University Home Page Edinfo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Published by

Department of English Literature, The University of Edinburgh,
David Hume Tower, George Square, Edinburgh, Scotland EH8 9JX

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

they were 19 at the time.

NineTEEN, Ronan. NineTEEN.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

d-d-d-d-d-d-destruction...

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Americans invent irony?

Yeah Alanis Morrisette!!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

(Dan/Steve MINDMELD)

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

she's canadian.

David Letterman
Ian Svenonious
Bob Dylan

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Alanis Morrisette is Canadian.
xpost

― adam... (nordicskilla), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

(Dan/Steve MINDMELD)

I knew you would follow up on that. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Alanis Morrisette is Canadian.

I know. Have some irony you guys!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Their sense of humour involved mercilessly mocking each other but basically just saying "yeah FUCKHOLE", "SHUT IT FATASS", "SCREW YOU DIPSHIT", "YEAH SCREW YOUR MOM".

....ahahahahahahahahaha!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

screw you, dipshit

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, have you never seen Denis Leary? Or Colin Quinn? Or Nick DiPaulo? Or like 90% of all male Boston-raised comedians?

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam is laughing cos that's what they do in Edgware too

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Conan O'Brien

― Huk-L, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Many famous funny people are from Edgware.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

like The Edge!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Andy Warhol
Madonna

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve Martin.

― Huk-L, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

fucking trucker hats

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

it not irony that americans don't understand, it's sarcasm.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, right.

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

~~democracy~~

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

no it's not sarcasm either, oh flip, i honestly worked this out in my head the other week, but i've forgotten now.

it *could* be a self-loathing deficit...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It could be a tooth-decay or faggotry deficit.

Or just a budget deficit....

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

well it's clearly the latter, dear boy.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously :(

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

medical treatment deficit i guess.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The half of the country about to vote Bush MUST understand irony. It's the only way I can explain it.

― do i hear 21, Friday, 29 October 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

They're doing it just to bug me

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

how can anyone like America, or for that matter, any country.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

at least some of us can smoke in bars...

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

As a generalisation (like everything else on this thread), non-Americans probably have as bad a grasp of when to describe sometihng as irony as Americans. The difference is that it's the sort of knowledge that's more of a merit badge for Americans, so they use (and misuse) it more.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

we smoke in a tube thing called a cigarette. we have chocolate in bars.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Sexual Chocolate?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ireland is an amazing country, the people are truly magnificent.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

As a generalisation (like everything else on this thread), non-Americans probably have as bad a grasp of when to describe sometihng as irony as Americans. The difference is that it's the sort of knowledge that's more of a merit badge for Americans, so they use (and misuse) it more.
-- Andrew Farrell (afarrel...) (webmail), October 29th, 2004 12:01 PM. (afarrell) (later) (link)

I BLAME CANADA

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I do actually think that "we are an amazing country etc" is significantly more the 'default belief' in the US than elsewhere but this is probably not the time or place.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Yea, seriously, watch a fucking Bush campaign ad. Ugh...

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Amazing? Maybe, but America thinks it's 'exceptional'.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

their campaign should say "hellooooooo! this country is shit!!!!!!!!!! woot! vote for us kthxbye" for maximum effectiveness

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Vote for me and some day we'll be as amazing as Norway!

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

LARRY DAVID

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

The US is exceptional in many ways, some good and some bad.

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"Didn't Americans invent irony?"

American irony proved.

― de, Friday, 29 October 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

americans often won't get "dry" humour but surely that speaks well of us

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

William S Burroughs

― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 October 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

ihttp://joewitkin.joeandcarol.com/Images/Sha%20Na%20Na.GIF

I don't know if America invented irony, but we did invent Sha Na Na.

― andy, Friday, 29 October 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

my dad always thought Kosmo Kramer was from Sha Na Na, i think he still believes it.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://cover09.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/450/457990.jpg

SHA NA NA: GREASE FOR PEACE

What we need is a little less Jesus and a little more Sha Na Na. Bowser as a write-in, yo.

― andy, Friday, 29 October 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Sha Na Na killed at Woodstock.

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 29 October 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

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