why does shaggy hate women so much?

Sexist/chauvinist/misogynist - what are the differences? Which words get overused?

But is Shaggy solely responsible for the use of the word Boombastic?

Shaggy of course is also v. anti 'batty boys' - if he;s misogynist as well then it implies he hates everyone who might possibly want to shag him. Some pathology!

The problem with the distinction is that it's what Shaggy himself would probably suggest - no I love women me, thats why they're in my videos etc.

anyway, my most hated part of the "luv me luv me" video is where he "freezes" the woman uncrossing her legs - then looks up her skirt.

Shaggy's just another boring popstar who expects female compliance and gets it. For now, anyway. I hope one of the crack hoes in his videos marries him, sleeps around, and makes off with all the money.

Wha'? That's crazy talk. I sometimes like going along with radical feminists and agreeing that all men secretly hate women (for my own self-flagellating reasons - you don't want to go there). But really, this is a load of old crock, innit? Lack of respect ≠ hate. There are plenty of people I work with/for that I don't respect, but I sure as hell don't hate them.

which could be a little harsh, but i dunno. can you truly LIKE someone that you have no respect for?

Well maybe I should point out that in my book not liking ≠ hating either.

I always thought of misogyny as sexism for intellectuals.

Well i don't actually think that all men hate women, i'm not sure if you were implying that i do think that, i am NOT a radical feminist. I would just like to clear that up.

But really, this is a load of old crock, innit? Lack of respect != hate. There are plenty of people I work with/for that I don't respect, but I sure as hell don't hate them.

There are plenty of people that i know that i don't respect, but don't necessarily hate. but i was just wondering really, if you display a lack of respect for a whole group of people, is it different from the lack of respect you might have for an individual? i would say 'yes it is'. and perhaps I was suggesting that if your lack of respect extends to a whole group of people ie the way shaggy's seems to extend to all women (if we take his attitude towards women as being that which is exhibited in his music videos, but i realise that this may not be a manifestation of his real attitude towards women as a music video is a big show designed to sell a product) then it must be a very strong disrespect, possibly equatable with hatred. how do fellow ILE'rs opine on this?

objectifying someone doesn't mean you don't respect them. i would say, if you are consistantly objectifying in a way or in ways that reinforce particular stereotypes, then that constitutes disrespect. if we use the shaggy example, and the way he always has DOZENS of women as his concubines in his videos, and he gets to do whatever the hell he likes to them, freeze them, look up their skirts, while they are all rail-thin and dressed in next to nothing, reinforcing the stereotype of women as passive idiots who only exist to serve and titillate men.

add to this the fact that this is the plot of most mainstream music videos, and you get a bunch of women getting offended at being misrepresented on TV. why does it matter? because even if you think you are above it all, even if you are the kind of person who watches a music video and says to themselves "this isn't reality, this is a product of blah blah blah, i reject this", there is only so much of it you can reject, because of the barrage of this shit one is bound to take it in on some level, be it conscious or unconscious.

>>are there particular qualities which it is better or worse to respect people for?

this is a knotty one. i'm not really sure where you were headed with this question in relevance to the "shaggy and objectification" issue. however, in my own life, i would say yes, there are qualities (maybe not abstracted from our particular context) which are more worthy of respect than others. it is knotty though. eg do we respect a woman for being selfless, or we do we not respect her for being a pushover?

your missing the fact that in "it wasn't me", he's not actually singing about having learnt his lesson, hes actually bragging about cheating. and calling a woman an "angel" is fraught with problems too.

What is comes down to is that while our assumption -- that that role is demeaning and unacceptable to women -- is confirmed by the women surrounding us, his assumption -- that their women are willing and eager participants and thus not "disrespected" or exploited -- is confirmed by the astoundingly large number of women who are willing to play along with these objectifying gender roles and not complain about them. The "game" concept is, I think, urgent and key insofar as how this situation is reflected in American r&b and hip-hop: every "bring the booty" video is countered by Destiny's Child asking for men to pay their bills, TLC slagging off men who can't afford cars, Missy Elliot demanding sexual stamina, or Blu Cantrell repaying infidelity with credit card fraud. (And note that the male-dominated music industry doesn't hear much from the women who gladly play into the man's-money, woman's-ass framework posited here, but a top-down view could surely reveal nearly as much monetary exploitation of men as sexual exploitation of women. Difference = monetary exploitation of men still seen as acceptable, thanks this time to men clinging to archaic gender roles of gift-giver, provider, or big-money roller.)

It's essentially a cultural adaptation that's hugely cynical on both sides, in that it subjugates the ideas of love and respect for the clearer purposes of self-satisfaction. The root impulse is not so different from prostitution: the male sees that he can obtain sexual gratification because women want his money, the female sees that she can obtain money because men want her sexually. The odds are even, thus both parties have to be extra-cynical and extra-ruthless about things to make sure they get their end of the bargain without giving up too much of what the other wants.

Note especially that I don't think these attitudes are quite as prevalent among actual people as they are in music, where projecting extreme cynicism and ruthlessness are par for the course. If we assume that plenty of people listened to "Fuck the Police" without even dreaming of actually killing cops, we can also assume that plenty of people listened to "Just Don't Bite It" but actually cared quite deeply, in private, for their girlfriends. Probably more so the latter, in that far more men enjoy imagining themselves as masters of sex than violence.

Whew.

What acts? The most I can infer about Shaggy is that he is interested in having sex with women, which is only "hostile" in the Dworkinite sense. And surely we can't expect him to have such pathologically low self-esteem that he views women being sexually available to him as an "evil." If Shaggy were keen with rhetoric, he would probably argue that you are the one subjugating these fictional women by deigning to decide for them which sexual roles they should accept or reject.

No, what you are getting at has fuck-all to do with Shaggy or even misogyny, and your vast oversimplification of Shaggy = misogynist completely skirts the very real problem you're hinting at and moreover does nothing at all to address its actual complexities. Not to mention the fact that Shaggy is completely ridiculous as an emblem of that problem.

Nicole - the thing is though that if the "grand scheme of things" is itself harmful, so too surely are its components?

Fi! It's easy. I do it all the time. "Hello Angel" I say, in pathetic tribute to Morrissey's old greeting to Sandie Shaw. My mum's called Angela too, so I'm all in favour of calling people Angel. And what about women calling men 'Angel' (Aretha, Madonna et al.) Calling someone Angel doesn't have to mean you have some kind of virgin/whore complex. Does it? It's just nice.

My real answer to all this = close to Nitsuh.

Or to put it a third way - I don't think Shaggy's offensive. But "No it's just shit" is a pretty feeble response to somebody saying something's offensive, no? (Also untrue - "It Wasn't Me" is good!)

i bet he does it doggy style

but what would scooby do?

Shaggy... the cartoon dog...?

all right this is important yall so listen up. SHAGGY DOES NOT EAT SCOOBY SNACKS. Scooby eats Scooby Snacks. They are dog treats. Shaggy loves to eat, but he doesn't eat dog food. He eats, like, cheeseburgers and stuff like that. So he wouldn't do anything for a Scooby snack, or be any more interested in doggy style than anybody else, and all that. Please get characters straight when making Shaggy/Scooby jokes. THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS MATTER.

hence my post what would scooby do.

xxpost

Um, I hate to break this to you J0hn but in some of the mid-era Scooby Doo cartoons Shaggy does eat Scooby Snacks.

SILENCE YOU HERETIC

only because they contain cannabis resin. i believe dude likes to get high.

B-b-but I have seen these cartoons myself! It's not my fault dude is so high that he eats dog food.

I mean, that's really fucking high.

he was going to cook proper food

but then..

I wonder if, in the history of the world, any man has referred to his parts as "scooby snacks"

I'm really sorry that I wonder that

Um, I hate to break this to you J0hn but in some of the mid-era Scooby Doo cartoons Shaggy does eat Scooby Snacks.

-- HI DERE, Monday, February 4, 2008 3:03 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^
exactly. i wouldn't put an innacurate detail about a cartoon character in a message board post. it's bad nerd-form.

Now he's eating Scooby Snacks, and we know why...

(XPOST WAU)

I know Shaggy is caught popping s-s's for comic relief sometimes but that's not the same thing as conflating his constant hunger with a specific desire for scooby snacks, which is my point

my very important point

Screw you all for reminding me of that stupid Fun Loving Criminals song.

of course Shaggy eats Scooby Snacks. Scooby keeps swiping his comically large sandwiches.

the episode where Shaggy tried to drop Scooby off at the pound to teach him a lesson about stealing the damn sandwiches, that shit was awesome

reah!

R-r-reuthanize?

Nurse denies disliking old people

One daft BBC News headline. Decided against creating a new thread, and there is no (point in creating) a rolling daft BBC News headline thread. So here it is.

Someone is hopped up on Scooby Snacks.

Ree-bee-cee?

Screw you all for reminding me of that stupid Fun Loving Criminals song.

Can I cosign this?

No.

Typical.

You guys are LOCO

IT'S MILLER TIME

Being reminded of Afroman was more distressing for me.

or at least it would have been, had I not...

TS: Scooby Doo vs Astro

There was a sandwich bar near me called "Scooby Snacks", but for legal reasons they had to change it to "Zooby Snacks". Then a couple of weeks later they went out of business. This all happened in the space of a couple of months.

I'm pretty sure there was a strain of bud called "scooby snack" in Amsterdam at some point however fuck that, just go to the place the Jamaicans run right on the water, much more mellow

That's weird, I've never heard the remix of "Boombastic" (I guess it was a hit in the US only), but the original version in the video sounds a bit weird too. Was there maybe another remix of it, which was a bit faster and had a fuller sound?

You're thinking of "Boom Boom Boom" by The Outhere Brothers.

No, I don't think I've ever heard that.

Fake Tuomas.

Okay, I listened to "Boom Boom Boom", and I have actually heard it, but it doesn't sound anything like "Mr. Boombastic".

I'm sorry, I meant "Boom Boom Boom Boom" by The Vengaboys.

I'm not gonna download that anymore.

this is a great side-by-side comparison of what a triple-digit post thread looked like here in 2001, and what it looks like in 2008.

are you sure you weren't thinking of "Boom Boom", by John Lee Hooker?

ruh roh Ric-Roc

I'm pretty sure there was a strain of bud called "scooby snack" in Amsterdam at some point however fuck that, just go to the place the Jamaicans run right on the water, much more mellow
-- J0hn D., Monday, February 4, 2008 4:26 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

I know when you suck up the ash from a pipe it's called scooby snacks

I imagine shaggy doesn't hate women but Thelma stunted his growth. SHe probably came on to him during the commercial break. Just picturing Thelma doing a wop striptease is enough to give the guy nightmares.

her name is velma, i don't know what the fuck a wop striptease is

I work at an office doing stuff on computers after they leave. Either way, for the longest time, this one woman's cubicle had a computer-printed picture of shaggy posted on it for quite awhile, until one day, it was replaced by another one, I, curious as I am about all matters Shaggy look and see not just one picture, but behind it a stack of at least 8 different shaggy printed out pictures pinned up behind it. Well, it was an odd experience.

I remember this interview with The Bloodhound Gang a few years ago where they asked if they hated women. One of them replies "No! We love women! We love their tits, their ass, their pussies..."