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TODAY'S RELATIONSHIP PLAINT: i get cold-shouldered a lot, what's the fucking story?

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hi. this has happened to me 4 times over the past year: get to know person, the first curve of what we call "dating," maybe a little getting it on, everything going grandly, laughing, some dinner, la la la, and then, ZERO CONTACT, without explanation. no returned phone calls, nothing.

ok ok i know, some of this is ego, cos of course i've not called ppl after 1 dud date, but these have been situations where, if i got cold feet, things had got to the point where i would feel obligated to at least have a short conversation about those cold feet.

(let's pass over the fact that I was really interested in these ppl at the time too, le sigh. and yes they were all different situations with their own dynamics etc etc, but the common element is uh ME so...)

so, am i just a sap? or touchy? oblivious? or do i have bad luck? or is this the done thing?

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm... did you fart in bed, perchance?

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

(and if you can tell anything about me from my meager posting record that says "clearly you should be dropped after a promising week's start" then, by all means, say so)

xpost well i just don't know.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:16 (twenty-one years ago)

(Sorry... I'm projecting my own anxiety. I've been specifically instucted not to fart in from of her parents this weekend.)

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I say retrace your steps. It's no usual for a girl to date a guy for a week, sleep with him, etc, and then just STOP. Not in my age group, anyway. So... be more specific. Take one instance, and tell us what happened.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

haha dig dig dig.

ok truth be told i have a pretty good idea what went wrong with each, but still, i'd rather not have to have guessed, you know?

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

by that i mean none of these situations was ideal, except the most recent which I'm still scratching my head over... bah now i'm getting cagey.

so LISTEN UP LADIES, if i'm going to be let down, i'd at least like to know as much as is reasonable about what's happening, the combo of losing and not knowing is the pits. and having this experience repeated is ruff on the ego, like, ah yes of course, this shit again... hm maybe it is just touchiness.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Well from what you've said it's nothing they notice straight up, but something they figure out in a comparitively short period of time.

Do you have any brutally honest type friends who might be able shed some light on what might be uhh....holding things up on the ladies front?

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i'll have to do that. and then there's all the stuff about myself that i know i don't like...

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

is it possible that you are "too nice"?

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Well it's not really about what you don't like so don't worry bout that, it's about what they (the women) don't like and if they're only figuring it out within a week, it must be pretty glaringly obvious. Maybe your friends have noticed and haven't said anything til now. I have no idea.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post, yeah too nice suck balls.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

gareth that's a real possibility. i'm not an approachable person in daily working life, and at parties etc i'm very good at being chatty, pressing the flesh. but yeah when these things happen i may mush out a little early. fuck.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

So, to keep score: you're having girl troubles. That's par. And you're wondering why they leave, and you're suspecting that it might be because of some of the things you don't like about yourself. Again I must point out that without specifics, we can neither help nor reassure you. The only advice that can possibly be offered is to work on the things you don't like about about yourself, which I know is cold comfort.

xpost: Well it's not really about what you don't like so don't worry bout that

I don't think that's true at all! If anything, it's only about what you don't like. you know how confidence is sexy? Well there you are.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

once you lose that unknowability or, the gap where they can project onto you, thenyou suddwnly become just become a nice guy, you are gone. it sucks, because, its precisely when you like them, that this happens. you have to be more exciting, otr rather, you have to seem more exciting. trouble is, and althugh this isnt hard to do particularly, it is once you like them a lot

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:48 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

All I'm saying is, if you're with yourself all the time, you have time to notice a great many things you don't like about yourself and yet these women are sensing something quite quickly in the relationship so concentrating on what he doesn't like about himself may just result in him developing a complex about himself.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Gareth is right. You don't have to hide the niceness altogether, you just have to withhold it somewhat. "Cautious in my emoting" often equals "I know what I'm doing here."

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Are we getting anywhere close here? Are you getting too close too fast?

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

more nonchalance needed. and more confidence, and less information. make sure there is always more for them to find out. dont let them know where they are so early on, they'll get comfortable. girls like excitement and the rush of danger. its not a question of games, though it'll feel like that. make them do some of the work. have the confidence that they'll do some of that work, and you dont need to do it all. at some point they like you, right, just dont up the ante at that point. and, most importantly of all, dont fall for them.

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

NON
CHA
LANCE

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

boys be liking to find out the truth
girls be liking to think you dont want to hear it

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is good reminder of how tedious relationships and dating are. Give me my loveless marriage anyday.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Aw hon... I feel much worse for you suddenly than I feel for g--ff. Compared to a loveless marriage, he's a whiner.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

It's only loveless really in that theres no sex, we get on super well...better than any other married couple I know, so don't feel too bad :)

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow. Ok.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

hey, my parents have one of dese!

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Looks fun, doesn't it?

I'm sorry to offend, but a marriage without sex is not a marriage, the same way that an pre-marital realtionship without sex is a friendship. Hate to get all staunchy in defining my terms here.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe. definitions are subjective though pears. different strokes and all that surely.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely, but... I guess I'm working from the assumption that most people would like to have sex at least sometimes. Call me weird.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, isn't a loveless marraige essentially nunnery, except staying chaste in the name of the lord is replaced with staying chaste in the name of... some dude who won't have sex with you?

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not calling you weird, i'm quite fond of sex when it's available!! but that might not be the be-all-and-end-all of other folks' relationships though.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

To set the record straight, I would like to and he would not like to and I know it's not a normal marriage but I don't feel comfortable leaving it on the basis that there's no sex when everything else is fine and I'm apparently allowed to mess around if it pleases me.

PHEW!

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post

I'm not so worried about november, because it sounds like she's at least open to the idea, but her husband! Gah! Why marry a woman and then never initiate sex with her? That's more than a little weird.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I figured, Papa. If there's no sex, it's always the man who's not interested.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly. We've talked about it. I've tried to encourage him but he's just not interested. Not in me, not in anyone...I don't even think he jerks off.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:44 (twenty-one years ago)

That's far from normal, and indicative of any number of emotional disorders on his part. And what's more, it's not good for you or the relationship. That sounds really unhealthy, hon.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Yup, I'm aware of all this. I know he's a fuck-up but I'm stuck.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Not that I'm trying to convice you your husband's crazy. Just that he may need some counseling. You're entitled to sex from your husband if you want it. You shouldn't even have to ask.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Well... sometimes. But not persistently.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

was there ever sex? i am getting intrigued by this now, sorry.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, yeah seriously, I've tried to get him to counseling. I've kind of accepted my bad situation though.

xpost

yeah there was, but then we got....married. We didn't even have sex on our honeymoon.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:49 (twenty-one years ago)

you sound pretty ok with it so fair play to you i guess. your situation seems kinda sad though.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, it's just life. In some ways the situation is pretty good. Certainly teaches you to find other distractions in life.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i have been single for about 10 months now (that's a record for me), and haven't even had a casual shag for around 6 months, and i dont' really miss it at the moment (although admittedly sometimes i'm gagging for it ). what i DO miss is having someone to sit on the verandah and have a beer with while the sun is setting (i.e. companionship). so i think i'm not that surprised by your attitude.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

ooh, i have beer *and* a verandah.. *scarpers*

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

xxpost

Honey... please. Don't think I'm trying to impose my values on you or anything, but I can't think of a person in the world who would not tell you that this is wrong. Your "Eh, whatever" attitude is not as noble as you think it is. It's allowing something to go on which should not be going on. Sex is play sometimes, and it's frivolous sometimes, but that doesn't make it unimportant. A husband withholding sex from his wife is very very wrong and abnormal. Very. Very. Wrong.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's a bit like that. I have certain people keeping the fires burning but from day to day I'm not turning into a sex-crazed harpie or anything.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not that I think it's unimportant Kenan, theres just nothing I can do right now to change his mind. I'm certainly not trying to be noble, I'm just dealing with it. Get upset only makes me miserable and putting it out my mind keeps me sane.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Sane" is more relative than most things, I suppose.

I had a girl do this to me once. I dated her for a few months, had lots of sex, and then moved in with her. As soon as we moved in... boom. No sex. No hot christening of the new apartment in every room, no "I love you so much" sex, no sweet caring sex, no boring routine sex... no sex at all. Sex happened every three months on nights when she was drunk, and even then she layed there like I was raping her or something. I felt like I was. It was a little bit scary. I didn't know what had changed, didn't know why she seemed not to like me sexually, had no idea what to do about it. It felt it was somehow punishment for something I didn't know I had done.

When things came to a head a few months later, and we hadn't had sex in months, and we broke up officially, there was time left on the lease and I didn't have anywhere to go for a few weeks. I slept on the couch (which I had been doing for a while anyway... I theorized that she didn't care either way, and she never objected to my not coming to bed, confirming this). Four days after we broke up, she brought a guy home and fucked him the next room.

My experience may not be indicative of anything, but I'm just trying to tell you where I'm coming from. Withholding sex is almost never an indication of a lack of sexual desire. Even the severely retarded have sexual desire. It's something else, something that has to be addressed. "He's just not interested in sex" is absurd.

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

But ya know, it's funny. Like g--ff, I'm inclined to blame myself. I knew she was a little crazy going into it. I knew her self esteem was terrible, and her levels of self-pity were off the chart, and her understanding of the meaning of a relationship were skewed. I should have known good and damn well better than to date her. but what's a guy to do? She was cute, and she fucked me enthusiastically for months!

― Pears can just fuck right off. (kenan), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 09:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 13 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.
I KNOW WHAT GIRLS LIKE

― Freelance Waitresser (blueski), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I WANT CANDY!

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's how it is. Listen up! Everybody! Yo! Girls are really, really into guys. To the extent that they sit around talking about them when they're with other girls, or dressing in ways they think will please them, painting their nails, shit like that. BUT -- here's the catch -- they're not just into every guy. They kinda like the guys who are already popular with lots of other girls. And they kinda like guys who seem to know already that they're likeable, and not too concerned whether any particular girl likes them, because there's always another girl where that came from.

So I'd recommend, word:

a) Act really, like, confident, at least on the outside.
b) Never, never show you care when one girl rejects you.
c) Keep lots of irons in the fire, knowwharramean? (Wink.)

But -- BIG butt here, boys -- these rules all go splat passengerside when you get into a permanent relationship, so don't you come blaming me when your woman do be angry and beating heavy onya! OW! OW! OH! AW! That shit looks like it hurts!


― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

non-cha-lant

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Do the big lovesick puppy thing. She'll find it endearing, sympathetic, honest AND sexy!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

And she'll respect you all the more for it.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

When will the liberals accept asexuality

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Finally! A thread where I'm completely obsolete!

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post - I have accepted it. It's everything it's cracked up to be.

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus, do you write for Maxim?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

No, but dammit, the world would be a better place if he did!

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

HEART OF MINE by Bob Dylan

Don't let her know
Don't let her know that you love her.
Don't let her see
Don't let her see that you need her.
Heart of mine go back where you been,
It'll only be trouble for you if you let her in.
Don't let her hear
Don't let her hear you want her.
Don't let her know she's so fine
Heart of mine you know that she'll never be true,
She'll only give to others the love that she's gotten from you.
Don't let her know
Don't let her know where you're going.
Don't let yourself fall Don't let yourself stumble.

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus otm wrt many girls. But who wants a girl like that?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

oh wow. i have a lot to respond to, here. but i'm in a rush.

i'll leave you with the oxford english dictionary's etymology for "nonchalant"

a1734 R. NORTH Examen (1740) II. iv. §146. 310 To be non chalant and insipid in such Matters. 1813 BYRON Let. 8 July (1974) III. 73 The nonchalent deities of Lucretius. 1841 W. GRESLEY Portr. Churchman (ed. 6) 83 The irreverent nonchalant demeanour of many of those who form our English congregations. 1893 Nation 6 July 17/3 Along with this nonchalant dealing with broad generalities, goes naturally the most careless handling of specific facts. 1908 E. M. FORSTER Room with View xii. 202 They followed him up the bank, attempting the tense yet nonchalant expression that is suitable for ladies on such occasions. 1956 A. J. CRONIN Crusader's Tomb 199 Despite his nonchalant, rather lazy manner, Hollis was plainly delighted, bubbling with enthusiasm. 1994 Rolling Stone 19 May 34/2 With their latest release, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, Pavement prove once and for all that—in the universe where nonchalant integrity and low-tech tunesmanship are affectations to be worshipped—they are the closest thing to a godhead.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

DO NOT BEHAVE LIKE STEVEN MALKMUS WHATEVER YOU DO!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

A friend of mine, Nick's and Anna's 'az shagged Steven Malkmus, oui.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

azz shagged?

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I would love a guy to be too nice to me, in theory.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think there's such a thing as too nice, unless you don't want to be nice back. I like nice.

― Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

well, there's the too nice that is like: PLEASE PLEASE LOVE ME BACK I will fall apart if you don't and I adore you forever and ever and will now structure my life around yours but always be so nice that we can never talk about things about the relationship that are not nice even whether or not this kind of nice is what you want because I know you and I know you do.

In other words, a little smothering.

― not nice (sgs), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

girls like excitement and the rush of danger

gareth you are insane

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

well, there's the too nice that is like: PLEASE PLEASE LOVE ME BACK I will fall apart if you don't and I adore you forever and ever and will now structure my life around yours but always be so nice that we can never talk about things about the relationship that are not nice even whether or not this kind of nice is what you want because I know you and I know you do.

that's not nice, that's manipulative.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

well, what to say?

i'm sure i could crush ass with the line "momus told me how to pick up chix once" but i'm not into indie girls anymore.

gareth, how'd you get to be so smart? this esp: "most importantly of all, dont fall for them." yeah, i have trouble there. i am a sap, i know it, and i tend to go for only very smart and very tough women, a tricky combo to balance it seems.

and suzy, really, i owe you a drink. chris k, she's the ex-dyke buzzcocks fan, yes? i haven't run into her in a long time but when i do, i'll say hello. tho, in point of fact this last one doesn't go in for Bergmanesque repression (actress/playwright/filmmaker/stripper), it was a straightup snub...

i think this is a matter of squaring the things i know about myself with the things i don't know (as most crises are). i also need to decide how long to pine over the most recent girl, she really was quite astonishing. (tho she did pronounce todd solondz name as "salons;" getting words wrong is always a red flag...)

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

g--ff, I think you're pretty rad if that's any consolation.

― He's allergic to lettuce (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

it is, a little!

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

he's pretty cute, too

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

aw, see, this is how it all starts...

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I would love a guy to be too nice to me, in theory.

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

?

i put the in theory bit, in bold. lets try that again

I would love a guy to be too nice to me, in theory.

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

oh well, fuck it. i just want a girl who'll fix my tags

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

poor guys.

sorry if I started something i shouldn't have.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I can suggest something that'd put me off sleeping with a guy I used to love to shag - personal bloody hygiene. Why is it that movnig in with someone suddenly gives a guy reign to stop washing his clothes and hair, brushing his teeth and changing his smalls and sock?

Dudes, if you reek, I dont even want to KISS you and I dont care how much I love you k thks.

And no I am not fucking doing your washing for you to get around this either.

Wow I have issues.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

um and "sock" up there should be "socks" obv, I dont think I ever dated a guy with one foot. Or Anthony Kiedis.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

People here are conflating "nice" with "completely fucking needy" and that's where confusion is arising. "Nice" in this context is damning with faint praise, niceness only becomes a factor when there is nothing else for the person you are interested in to become attached to.

You can be nice and equally be fun, interesting, witty, clever, spontaneous, exciting, romantic and all the rest. But if you're not careful, as soon you become attached to someone to an unhealthy degree early on all those things go out the window and replaced with a sort of awkward combination of intense earnestness and extreme awkwardness. So when there's nothing left for your prospective other half to be interested in "too nice" becomes a convenient excuse to fall back on.

Essentially, yes, Gareth is right, you need to be nonchalant, but genuinely so, rather than putting it on as an act. The best way to go into a relationship is not to care too much if nothing comes of it. If there's one thing the last couple of years have taught me is that you're not going to get anywhere in a relationship if you can't be happy being single in the first place.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

exciting people are boring

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 22:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt very OTM. Neediness/desperation is ugly.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

By which I mean, I have dated guys who after only a few days/weeks have started with the "why havent you phoned me today?" or "whats wrong?" every ten minutes, crying for no reason whatsoever, and saying you're the only thing keeping them sane. After a few weeks. YARGH! This one guy, when I broke it off with him for such behaviour, then informed me I was "lucky" he didnt drive his car into a tree.

I sure knew how to pick 'em.

So g--ff if you're not doing any of that you should be ok! ;)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Taking sides "I really like being with you" vs "fill my gaping emotional void".

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"fill my gaping emotional void".

oooh matron

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

urgh that nonchalance bullshit is dumb. the only ones who go for it is young girls who think it is the nature of the male beast, or older ladies who've never been treated right. it does work, gut-wrenchingly so, when you have a crush and everything is based on signifiers and vague idealizations. or if you just wanna fuck. but in a 'real' relationship? ech.

the reason it seems girls 'prefer' that is that it can be sexy. and it is so hard to find someone you are genuinely, genuinely into. so if you have to choose between meh, sexy, but shitty and meh, nice, but unsexy and you aren't really gonna end up with either, who do you choose for some temporary action? exactly. patience is a bitch.

(i'm not sure if i even used meh correctly. if not please let me know)

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 25 November 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

And along those lines, I think in the end a genuine relationship is just going to work. It will work because you and that other person like each other a lot, click well, and dont have to TRY to be anything - if you have to be conciously thinking "be nonchalant" or "be more friendly" or "be a blokeybloke" or "cry more" or anything apart from just WHO YOU ARE then it isnt the right person is it?

It took me a fucking long time to work that one out, sadly.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 25 November 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was having "niceness"/ 'useless indie fuxor' stuff, I went to Mark C, and was all "and then we end up FRIENDS forever oh no!" and he took me aside and said "well, make your move before that happens, then". And it was lifechanging, wonderful advice, maybe the best I've ever received.

[I realise this seems to have strayed off g--ff's datewoes and into the endless risky "niceness" thing again :( ]

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 25 November 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

What did Momus say about pulling?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 25 November 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

lolita OTM i think

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 25 November 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i think she used "meh" correctly

― amateur!!st, Thursday, 25 November 2004 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, perhaps i am being slightly misunderstood here. what i mean, is to be light, to be fun, to be something where they want to find out more about you, not laying it all down straightaway. i mean, we are talking EARLY days here, right? i think what gravel was saying about mark c is probably what i mean, about the dangers of becoming the nice safe friend. thats pretty true?

― *@*.* (gareth), Thursday, 25 November 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Hug the same chick too many times and you won't get the pussy. Fact.
-- dave q (scrape10...), September 29th, 2003 1:28 PM.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 25 November 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was having "niceness"/ 'useless indie fuxor' stuff, I went to Mark C, and was all "and then we end up FRIENDS forever oh no!" and he took me aside and said "well, make your move before that happens, then". And it was lifechanging, wonderful advice, maybe the best I've ever received.

this is totally the key lesson. the long game is dud, people. it took moving to america for a while for me to realise this.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 25 November 2004 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yet another example of how TV has lied to us. The lesson there is that Long Game = classic. See for example the end of The Office, plus all soaps ever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 25 November 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)


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