Living with people sucks and you’re always better by yourself. Discuss

I really want to move out but don't have the cash right now to get somewhere on my own.

many essex towns are not fun. which one are you in?

She did make the kitchen smell of kipper though.

This was after he decided to smash up his doorframe because he objected to the way I'd been speaking to him (I think Mr Andrew Farrell was there to witness that one).

I knew there was something weird about him from the day he moved in, but I think it was the moment when I borrowed his laptop only to accidentally find a folder full of explicit hardcore sex pictures OF HIMSELF that I realised quite what sort of person we'd allowed to move in with us.

Never again.

i agree, with a major emphasis on 'sometimes'.

i'm a big fan of sanctuary, i.e., having that spot where one can go to recharge after experiencing the often soul-sucking nature of the "real world" for 8-10 hours. that spot for me has increased since i was a young man first out on my own when i lived with up to 10 people at a time. i look back on those days from my current perspective and shudder, but really i had a lot more fun than misery under those circumstances.

nevertheless, i can relate to c-taylor's revelation, as i now could never live with anyone i wasn't sleeping with. i have, in some ways unfortunately, grown more crotchety as i get older and i cannot come home to hear the same asinine bullshit i hear all day and not completely break down after a while. i greatly depend on my tiny little studio apt. for regeneration, for as that genius will rogers once quipped: "i truly love humanity, i just hate humans".

This is bonkers. There are plenty of good reasons for living with someone you're not sleeping with. When I lived alone, I was a hermit, and I found it completely depressing. Living with roommates has allowed me to afford houses that were much nicer than I could otherwise afford, and which had enough space for me to have a proper music room or to host events. And while certainly I've had some bad roommates, dealing with the frustrations of living with perfectly fine people, and all the grievances they cause, has made me a better person, I think.

Right now I couldn't afford to live alone anyways. I can't think of anyplace in Portland where I could live alone for my current rent (just shy of $300/month), and I can't afford much more than that. Perhaps some Section 8 housing?

I think it's a false causality you're reading into whatever group of people you're looking at. I mean, I could just as easily cite the fact that you know each of them as the cause of their flaws. The facts match, but the interpretation is wrong.

(xpost re Casuistry) - Exactly! I'm living with three other people and right now two of them have been out all day and the other one is in bed early (hard work day). Usually it's fairly quiet here; I see my roommates a couple of hours a week.

I agree with Chris though, whilst I have no objection to living alone, and have done so in the past quite happily, financially it makes sense, and so long as it's the sort of person you can happily share with, no problem.

Many x-posts.

(*nb: this is true)

Axiom 1: Living with people only sucks if the people you're living with suck.
Axiom 2: This applies to you, too.

Now, Jessica is the oldest of six kids, and doesn't feel right unless there is some kind of crowd noise or hubbub going on. It's something we struggled with early on - me needing time to just decompress, alone, her wanting to bring people over, go out, do things, etc. But now, I just spend my time alone while she's at work and soak up every minute with my beuatiful gal whenever she's around.

I've always lived with people, and usually find that if you want peace and quiet, you can make peace and quiet. Choosing to cohabitate with Jessica five years ago was the best domestic decision I ever made. As much as I love my alone time, I don't think I'd enjoy living alone. Then again, I've never tried it and probably never will.

This theory that there are people who aren't even a bit of a fuck is an intriguing one.

Oh, the re-interpretations...

(I really hope you meant that in a saucy way, because if you didn't, I think 80% of NYC ILX would want a word or two with you re: your comment)

"Being in college" is a reason generally as good as "being in the Odd Couple or the X-Men," since you often aren't given a choice, or much of one, but I wasn't thinking of kids that age.

What is it about living with others that makes a person "a bit of a fuck"? What, specifically, causes it and what are the symptoms?

Anyone who would generalize people who have roommates in general as being "lesser" (however you define that) should probably rethink making such a generalization, unless he/she has lived in almost every type of city -- urban, suburban, or rural -- in the world, and can succinctly back up his/her claim.

Tep, I'm just suggesting you possibly reword your claim a bit? Maybe there's a misunderstanding here?

But that's just another example of people who have no other choice, it seems, like with the college kids I mentioned -- whereas the posters taking issue with me seem to be defending the choice more than talking about a lack thereof.

Tep I can assure you from my own experience that the times I have lived alone, while I am glad I did from the POV I am now totally capable and whatnot, were the times I was screwyest and most depressed.

Im really baffled by your stance on this thread, it isnt like you :/

Well, that, to me, is a limitation enough to not warrant making your original claim.

Personally, I don't think any living person on this planet can currently make that claim and back it up. I'm just thinking you made your claim based on your personal experiences, and therefore projecting it upon us, for reasons I don't quite see yet.

(I'm saying this as someone who currently lives alone in a one bedroom in a not-so-expensive/not-so-cheap city, and is happily single.)

By the same token, though, what I've said can be rephrased more neutrally as "X turns you into Y." I don't like Y, but if you do, should it matter much to you that I don't? It's not like you're asking me out.

xpost; Trayce, it's not unlike me at all, believe me, and no, I wouldn't extend this across all times and cultures. But why would I need to?

This is something I've heard from somebody at a house party back in Orange County, CA.. (back when I used to have roommates by choice! *gasp*). It was a weird arbitrary grudge/generalization that I was politely arguing against, but she just couldn't understand life ever without having some sort of significant other.

I only bring this up, because, Tep, your comment rings slightly reminiscent of that, in tone... (not literally, obviously)

db (dc): Yeah, I can see how it would sound like that. This isn't an earth-shattering difference, but I'm not saying I don't understand why anyone would want a roommate; I'm saying it's a bad idea.

Yo Tep, WTF?!?!?

I have happily lived alone for the past 10 years, I've had friends stay with me in in that time but it is my space and I adore that, but before that I lived in different housemate situations ranging from group houses to single roommates and all of them were fine, actually great! I made friends with some people who I'd never have met otherwise, other cases formed closer bonds with ppl. and had some good times. What is the problem with any of these?

(I am leaving aside some of the arguments you presented)

Anyway, I think Epicurus said that the secret to happiness is friends (It's been a long time since I read any of the ancient Greeks, so I may be totally misattributing this), and not just having them, but living with them. I'm inclined to agree with him, I've never been happier than when living with four of my close friends. The majority of humans have lived in families and social groupings, for economic and social reasons - and I think the increasing prevelance of pseudo-families, mixes of friends and relatives, is one of the things I value most about modern society. Watching TV, preparing and eating food, playing games, etc. are all much more enjoyable when shared, and life is easier and more fulfilling when you share your life with others. That said, I appreciate that some people are private, and prefer to live alone, and I wouldn't denigrate their reasons or personalities for this decision.

x-post

http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/art/a/n/andreahaas/1sad_uni.jpg

(sad unicorn)

I don't want to be in the position of having to say, one person after another, "I don't like you"/"I think less of you"/"no, you're okay, you're the exception." Yes, I know that if anyone has put me in that position, it's me -- but I'm still not going to do it, it feels like duck duck goose. I'm not going to softshoe or backpedal just to avoid a fight, either, though -- in its own way that's just as unfair. Anyone who's pissed at me, be pissed at me, whether you like me or not; we can both handle it.

xpost; I don't think I'd phrase it that way, mouse, but I think it's close. Maybe not "properly socialized" so much as "better and more eclectically equipped."

but Tep, my question (and I think some of those above) is how many of those horror situations you are describing are what most ppl experience? I think most ppl, - not really. Mebbe you or friends had some bad ones that color all future situations but...goddam, I'm still shocked about the extreme position.

(and yes, the living alone horror stores of cats are scary but still these are all extremes)

xpost
(And I'm still currious as to why you feel this way)
(maybe I do want to ask you out!)

Enough people have wondered about my acting uncharacteristically, or asked about my mood, that I am tempted to suggest I don't say anything more for the moment, but I don't want to look like the "getting the last word in and running away" guy or the "oh I'm just having a bad day, let me off the hook" guy (I'm not having a bad day! I just had a piece of pie!) or anything like that. Ha, but I'm also supposed to be keeping track of mood swings, so I don't know, maybe I should just go revive a crush thread or something.

Having said that I do totally grok your main argument to be honest, if I understand it right - living alone helps a person learn how to look after themselves, to grow up basically. And I agree with that. I had a flatmate who'd clearly only ever either lived in group houses or with a family who either picked up aftr him or had a maid, not sure which. He was a good friend, but geez he didn't have any sense of self-responsibility. He forgot to pay his own bills, forgot to give me rent, left mess everywhere, wouldnt use the washing machine we had in the flat (he took his laundry back to his parents place for THEM to do wtf!?!). He acted like a child bascially. In the end I had to turf him out.

So hmm.. I mean yeah I can say living alone can do a person a lot of good. I cant agree with the idea that anyone who has never lived alone has to be some kind of asshole/mentalist, though (if thats the dealie here).

And many people pick up those skills and habits you value by living with someone else who has those habits; this is, to a large part, how I got over much of my teenage social phobia and got out of my own little headspace. But I've also seen this work for people w/r/t cooking or cleaning habits.

(Although I agree with you strongly as far as leaving one's parents' home goes: I spent many years lobbying for my younger brother to leave my parents' house, which he finally did at age 26. I'm hoping this will help him grow up and become a bit more independent, and I'm hoping to find this out when I go home for Xmas.)

Maybe things have changed since the baby boomer times, I dont know. The amount of people (I hate to say this but, guys mostly) who seem totally at a loss when it comes to practical commonsense life skills like cooking and cleaning and bill paying, astounds me.

Even, I am loath to admit, my own partner is not that great at it, though he is always trying to improve (maybe cause I am a horrible nag, ugh).

in 2002, my then-friend EW broke up with her live-in boyfriend. i, being the kind soul i am, offered her a space in my then-house, which i was sharing with two other guys, T & C. we had a six bedroom house and i rented out the entire third floor [as i was freelancing at the time, space was important!]. i made sure to get the consent of T&C, because i thought that might be rude if i offered to let someone live here and they had no say in it.

anyway, about a month after she moved in, our friendship fell apart. she stopped hanging out with me and found a whole new bunch of friends, some of which included my housemates. feeling a bit used, i asked to meet up with her and seek a resolution, if possible. she declined and we had a nasty email battle even though she was in the room next door.

as we had never signed any sort of binding agreement, i gave her verbal and written notice that she had 30 days to move out. [i researched the laws on this and found that technically, i could have given her 15 days because she wasnt on the lease and was illegally living here.] i even offered to refund her any portion of the rent if she moved out early.

fast forward thirty days later. instead of moving out, my roomates assist her in moving all her belongings into a room on the second floor. i am completely bewildered by this and grab C to ask him whats going on. "Oh, our friend needed a place to live," he said. i kindly remind him that decisions which affect the whole house [ie, new roommates] need to be agreed upon by consensus, and this [ie, EW] was not something everyone agreed upon. he looked at me, shrugged and walked away.

frankly, im amazed that i didnt a) punch him or b) inflict some sort of damage upon the house. thinking about this situation now still makes me incredibly angry.

luckily, there was 2 months left on the lease when all of this went down, and i was dating someone at the time, so i kind of didnt care. i did make sure to immediately notify my landlord [who was at one point, my housemate] and he dealt with T&C. if i recall correctly, their portions of the security deposit werent returned because they let her stay. [i know its totally evil to scheme with your landlord but hey, i needed to get my revenge somehow.]

fast forward again to move out, which was mid-july. T,C & EW moved into a house of their own a block and a half away. the day the lease officially ended for T&C, there was a massive pile of garbage in the middle of my livingroom. it included old papers, bike parts, a skateboard, punching bag & the pull out seat of a minivan. they didnt leave any sort of note/phone message/email indicating that they would return for these items, and since the next day was trash day i left it on the curb.

i didnt see anything wrong with these actions, especially since there was A) no notification of retrieval and B) their lease was officially up. little did i know that 2 days later, all of them return to the house and see everything was missing.

at the time, i was working at tower records in philly and i remember this particular day, they came in and started screaming at me in front of all the customers. they wanted to sue me [for what? doing what any landlord would have done after a tenant moves out?], etc etc. it was great. they even got their friends to harass me when i was at an art opening.

all of this pretty much blew over, when i threatned to countersue them for unlawfully entering the house and a bunch of other things that ive forgotten. turns out these tough guys were really art school pansies.

the funny part about this is that EW posts on a messageboard i frequent and talks about how awesome she is as a roommate and all i want to do is chime in on those threads to reminder, "yo, didnt you like, refuse to move out of my house?" but i am an adult, and she will never be.