Finding the right words can be a problem

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I am (I think) good at talking to friends and others going through break-ups - with empathising with the situation, offering advice, saying the right things.

I am (I think) atrocious at talking to friends and other who've been bereaved - I seem cold, I can't think of what to say, I feel embarrassed.

For other personal crises I think I am middling - I can make sympathetic noises but am poor at offering any kind of advice.

What are you good and bad at dealing with - and how do you get better at the things you're bad at?

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, maybe just pretend in your head that the bereaved are actually just breaking up with someone. I'm sure things like "Time is a great healer" and "There are plenty more fish in the sea" will work equally well.

― Nick, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes Nick, unfortunately, "It's for the best, he was a cunt anyway" works better with an angry dumpee than with someone whose Dad's just died. Your mileage may vary.

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just be myself. I'm pretty poor when people are ill, and not great when they are dumped - but I'm not too bad with bereavement because the urge to give advice is taken away. I love giving advice and in real life situations its nearly always bad.

Though I talk too much, I have often been told I am a good listener.

― Pete, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

my problem is that i'm actually the king of helping others with their problems, and shite at dealing with my own. which is why all of my friends and family are successful and i'm a wretch. (yeah, yeah...that's the ticket...)

― jess, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If Jess is the king, I am the queen of helping others with problems. I am a good listener, and am pretty good at giving advice. The only thing I absolutely cannot deal with is people who come to me repeatedly whining about the same problem (usually relationship problems of some kind or another), but refuse to do anything constructive to change their situation. I get frustrated with them and become really unsympathetic.

― Nicole, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A friend who's recently suffered a personal bereavement = the best excuse for a pissup evah. It's mainly a case of lending a sympathetic ear when they need to vent or reminisce, I honestly don't think any bereaved person expects you to offer any words of wisdom or profound advice, just be there for them.

I totally echo Jess' sentiments. I'm like the professional car mechanic who fixes everyone elses' automobiles, but whose own car is falling apart.

― Trevor, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think -- I *hope* -- I'm a good listener, I've had enough people vent in my direction over the years, and I think people need listeners. But unlike Jess and Nicole, I don't think I'm very good at giving advice. This means I am jealous of them and hate them. Er, wait, that's not true.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The only time in my life I went into therapy it was because I realised how useless I was as a 'consolator' (don't take me wrong, please!), how numb I could get in front of someone with a huge problem with which I could not find any analogies from my own experience. (alcoholic/manic-depressive parents, for instance). I was told by the experts, though, that I was not an expert myself,so it was natural I was unable to help people in desperate situations. I feel much better now!

― Laetitia, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I went to a family gathering once after someone's mother died. Upon leaving, I asked if I could take some of the leftover beer home. That did NOT go over well.

― dave q, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am incapable of sympathy and can't never find the right thing to say. This is because I am a selfish cow.

― alix, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't much like dealing with other people's trauma and tend to stick to my sympathetic face which goes like this (imagine me pulling a sympathetic face).

There are certain Things to Say in cases of bereavement / being dumped, in the former case: I'm really sorry (especially if it was your fault), if there's anything I can do...., he /she was a really great bloke / girl; and in the latter: pecker / chin up, (s)he was a bastard / bitch anyway, you're better off without him / her, etc. etc. None of these things is very helpful but you should still say them to demonstrate your grasp of social skillz.

― Emma, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

they always come back for more = i should have been a crack dealer

― mark s, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Right then, you great consolers, console me, then, my great unrequited Shroedinger's Crush has just been rejected.

Without resorting to either of the already tried A) "Oh, it's his loss" (actually, no, it *isn't* his loss, it's mine.) or B) The "Sour Grapes" approach of pointing out his faults because, well, he's not got any (at least, none I can sneer at).

Go on, take your best shot. :-(

This love nonsense is rubbish after all.

― kate, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well Kate clearly he does have a fault and it is that he is a MANG. Pah.

― Emma, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kate, I'll admit I never had all that much sympathy during your previous traumas, but you have it this time. Ultimately, the simple truth takes ages to dawn - if they're not into you then they're not the person you think they are. Eventually, your heart will accept this. Until then, it's a bitch.

― Nick, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

He is not a mang. He is one of the most amazing people I've met in... well, a long long time. He has acted totally honourably throughout, and I have no complaints at all.

However, I think Nick may have hit the nail on the head. This is what Jane (bassist) always says to me: if someone doesn't love you, it's not something wrong with you, or not even something wrong with them. It's just not the right fit for you.

It's just one of those things that makes you start to think that there never *will* be a right fit. But then again, I thought that until I met him, and he utterly restored my faith in the male half of the human race. So I guess I have to remember that if fate was nice enough to bless me with him to remind me of that, it will eventually bless me with someone who is perfect in every way, including liking me back.

― kate, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Fate will indeed do that good thing for you, never fear. :-) *hugs*

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The people I've fallen for who haven't fallen for me have tended to be projections of something about I didn't have or felt I wanted - I don't know whether this is a universal law or not but it always helped me to examine that.

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I reckon the people I have fallen for who haven't fallen for me are just wrong ;)

― Emma, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What does he have that I want and don't have? Erm... eyebrows?

I think the answer is physical beauty. I am a shallow person.

― kate, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

On the bigger question (sorry Kate!): conversation analysts/ethnomethodologists distinguish between 'problems' talk (and responses) and 'troubles' talk (and responses), ie between the eliciting and offering of advice and the eliciting and offering of sympathy. As a recipient, I'm pretty good with troubles, I think, and laughable with problems mainly because except in a very few situations I'm really resistant to advice (especially when clodhoppingly given), no matter how well meant.

A misunderstanding of what's being asked for (especially treating 'troubles' as 'problems') --> bad shit. This little insight has been enthusiastically taken up by popular books on communication, esp. of the 'men are from mars' variety. I don't need to way which mode (troubles/problems) stereotypically corresponds with which gender, natch.

― Ellie, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is not so much finding the right words, the most important thing is *listening*. People think the words you say are important. They are. But most important is listening.

― helen fordsdale, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Christ, I'm even worse at that!

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know if I have ever fallen for anyone who hasn't fallen for me too. This is because I never ask them. I may have missed chances this way, but such is life.

Being a better advice giver on relationships rather than bereavment is surely a universal thing though - death naturally being generally the more serious and therefore harder to discuss topic.

I like to think that people do find it quite easy to talk to me about stuff, though.

― Ally C, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's mainly a case of lending a sympathetic ear when they need to vent or reminisce, I honestly don't think any bereaved person expects you to offer any words of wisdom or profound advice, just be there for them.

My experiences as a bereaved person point to this being a universal truth. I can't remember a time when I've been upset that I wanted someone to give me advice. Usually, I want to get my emotional fit out of the way and get myself to a more rational state before I start looking for solutions; unitl then, I simply want solace. Kate, I'm sorry to hear that your feelings aren't reciprocated. Trust me, you're far too cool a person for that situation to last forever.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ha ha, I did a good one. A work mate had just split up with her boyfriend and I said "Oh, the poor guy". She said "What about poor me!" I'm always happy when I dump someone so it didn't occur to me that her situation may not be the same. Talk about a lack of empathy!

― toraneko, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am good at getting paranoid and conjuring up fictional problems in relationships. I am ok at offering advice for those problems. I want to listen to people but some people don't talk and then hide and cringe in their cold exclusive little corner shutting me out so that I feel very helpless.

― Honda, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am crap at talking about anything that's bugging me with anyone. Or when I do I tend to completely obsess and go too far. I think I am a crap listener and shit at giving advice aswell, I talk too much myself. However I am good at cheering friends up and stuff after relationship break ups because I have a type of infectious persuasive enthusiastic attitude when I put my mind to it.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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