chardonnay wtf

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OK even my old wine store which was a bastion of variety just a year ago has succumbed to the CHARDONNAY CURSE. out with it, you people who are fucking drinking so much chardonnay that there is approximately 8 TRILLION BILLION BOTTLES OF IT at every single liquor store in the world and only, like, two bottles of actually palatable white wines.

wtf is wrong with the people in this country that this wine is so ridiculously overpopular to the point of near monopoly, apparently? it's fucking awful! i wouldn't drink chardonnay if you asked me to!

so instead it's vodka this week.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

it was vodka last week. it's wine this week.

― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet they're mostly Australian chardies too, yes? Blergh. Dry as bones. Give me a good round sav blanc semillion.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Australian, Californian...if I see one more label in a store that reads "CHARDONNAY, NAPA VALLEY" I'll take the bottle and smash it over someone's head.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

b-but, some of it is good! (Although I rarely drink it).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I have on a rare occasion had a nice Aus chardonnay, when they're very strong and buttery they can be good. I'm no good with winery names or anything though.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

ESOJ to thread, he's the wine buff.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I've pretty much never had a Chardonnay that I liked at all, with the single exception of the Cakebread Cellars one, which I bought out of desperation once and found to be quite ok and not exactly "Chardonnayish".

I think the name is what gets me most of all though!

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.tonynelsonphoto.com/live/images/republica.jpg

― Jimmy Mod always makes friends with women before bedding them down (ModJ), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I keep thinking of that woman on Soccer Moms or Footballers Wives or wtf it is called.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

They grow well in the colder climates like Niagra or BC.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Jimmy that photo makes her look like she has v. hairy arms??

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally, I will bring you guys some good Chardonnay next time I visit.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i said this on another wine thread but a fairly prominent winemaker admitted to me (in confidence, sucker!) that the industry terminology for chardonnay and other white whines is "chateau cashflow"... meaning, it is much cheaper/efficient to make white wines than reds. Some winemakers even leverage their COGS margins from white wines to finance the red production.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Too much of the winebuying marketplace is people who think "dry Chardonnay = good"; businesses are going to try to give as many people as possible what they want.

Wine writers who seem not to like anything that costs less than $50 a bottle and talk about "notes of lilac and red currant" don't help matters much.

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Or worse, who talk about "cat pee" notes in Sauvignon blanc and still expect Joe Sixpack to go buy something that's been described in such terms.

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure it is cheaper/more efficient whatever to make white instead of red--the question is, why chardonnay?

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Somebody once asked the lovely Emma B what part of France Chardonnay comes from and she was like "but Chardonnay is not French!"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh but it sounds so french and posho, surely it is from France BLEARGH.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, Wikipedia sez it does come from France, so what's French for "NEENER NEENER NEENER"?

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

THE SAME PART OF FRANCE WHERE THEY MAKE FRENCH FRIES

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's totally French, I think she just files away anything that she think sucks into the part of her brain labelled "Not French." Makes sense to me.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Wikipedia is run by Randian freakazoids and if you read it you will become infected.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck chardonnay. SHIRAZ bitch!

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Shiraz indeed. Also it sounds cooler. POV wine types, me:

1. Gewurztraminer
2. Shiraz
3. Riesling
4. Ruby Port
5. Pinot Grigio

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

No Sauternes??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i like chardonnay. especially if it has been aged in oak and cellared for a couple of years. yum.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i have been drinking WAY too much wine since i stopped smoking weed.

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I lke watery red wines that I can drink by the barrelful i.e. Pinot Noir, Gamay. Not Beaujolais so much, but that might just be because a friend of the lovely Emma B told me that its nickname is "vin de piss"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think I've had sauternes! What the fuck is that?

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost if you like watery reds do you like grenache, can you buy that in other places that are not australia? i understand grenache grapes are a bit of a specialty near where i live because it is very dry and hot and the soil is sandy (thus well drained) and that's their ideal climate

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i quite like chardonnay. it's easy to drink an heroic amount of it. sauv blancs are nicer though.

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If grenache = garnacha, you can get it from Spain.

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

drinking merlot right now, not my favorite. they were OUT of cabernets and shiraz at the liquor store.

my favorite is cabernet/shiraz combinations!

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Shiraz was the wine that everyone was drinking about a year ago.

I've preferred the chardonnays I've had to the sauv blancs but I am hardly a connoisseur.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, the people aren't drinking it anymore?

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

shiraz is my favourite. it's a perennial favourite here. i like peppery shirazes myself.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

what is a heroic amount, wine speaking?

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

2 bottles to the dome.

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

three bottles

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i like peppery shirazes myself.

me three. especially from margaret river, my favourite region of all.

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

especially from margaret river, my favourite region of all.

you should keep an eye peeled for old kent river shiraz in the WA section of your bottlo surface noise. it is from the plantagenet region rather than margs but i reckon it's tops, especially the 2003 vintage.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

sauternes is sweet white wine from bordeaux, it's almost viscous. But the good stuff (and nearly all of it's good) isn't cloying, it's almost like apricots or, er.. I dunno. I bet if you like gewurstraminer you'll like it.

gem I've heard of grenache but I don't think I've ever had it, I'll watch out for it now.

xpost: "bottlo"!!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

haha bottlo = bottle shop. some grenaches are really nice, but i find some a bit bland. worth a try if you like pinot noir and beaujolais though. my dad calls them 'lunchtime reds'.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't like sweet, I like spicy. A lot of gewurztraminer and riesling (oh like you've even tried more than 3 of each, tom) (shut the fuck up) can be a little too sweet for me, what you're describing sounds more like Ally Steez than Tombot Steelo if you get what I am saying to you.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

does anyone like semillon by itself? how do you choose wine? do you pick a type of wine first? do you stick with what you know? do you read reviews? do you ask the person who works there for help?

― youn, Thursday, 20 January 2005 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, exactly! I don't like beaujolais but pinot noir is just awesome. sometimes i think it tastes like bubblegum.

xpost yeah well i'm just sayin. I was just trying to find a picture of me drinking some Sauternes, at an actual chateau in bordeaux, where i just look like this totally sophisticated dude (until you realize i'm wearing a t-shirt with holes in it), it's such a great picture. if you go to bordeaux you can just drive around and pull into the drive of some random chateau and bang on doors and ask them to show you around. as an american they'll imagine you're there to buy like a case so they'll butter you up. we did this and i swear to god we were walking around looking for the proprietor and who did we come across but a chubby-cheeked woman wearing a rough wool dress and a kerchief and pushing a wheelbarrow full of ROSES. like hello, I'm in france! she pointed us to the person to talk to, and it turned out the master winemaker or whatever they're called was this thirty-year-old woman, which is apparently very unusual, and she was "trés sympat," she showed us around everywhere and gave us the rundown on noble rot and sugar turning to alcohol and the whole deal. then we each got to try FIVE different glasses of their wine, one from 2001, one from 2000, from 1999, 1998, and 1997. we bought a bottle each and we're like C YA.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I personally pick a type of wine and check out whatever is available at various bodegas in my neighborhood. If I like one I remember the label and get it again, and if I don't like one I don't get it again. I'll pick up other types I like from vineyards I like, and so on. It's basically the same process I always used when buying records.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

this is me seeing the woman with the roses, at this place

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/at_a_vineyard_2.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Thas a strangely enigmatic look there, Tracer!

I cant drink reds, mores the pity, they make me ill :(

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 January 2005 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

If I was at work I would caption that picture with the lyrics from a Thomas Dolby number

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

1) You like spicy, no sweet
2) Your NUMBER ONE wine pick was Gewurztraminer

I'm just gonna let this sit for a while.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, are you fucking spiking it with the sriracha or something? If so, SO GROSS, SO GROSS, SO GROSS...

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.carriesdiary.com/imgs/steve.jpg

http://www.traveldirectorynet.co.uk/images/1840007311.JPG

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://a-wine.jp/california/img/ridge-chardonnay2000l.jpg

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank god it doesn't say Napa Valley on it otherwise you'd be getting bottles on the head now.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

not that many people actually drink chardonnay. they just have a strong compulsion to smash people over the head with a bottle of one. That's why it shifts so well and unfortunately the system self-perpetuates this way.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 20 January 2005 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, this Napa hate makes no sense!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, wine availability has been heavily impacted by the exchange rate situation. That could be why you're seeing so many Californian, Australian and South American.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 20 January 2005 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that Chardonnay is so popular in the US because, as French words go, it's easy to pronounce.

Most of the great French white wines (Chablis, Pouilly-Fuissé, Burgundy) are made from Chardonnay, or feature it as part of a blend (Champagne).

― bham, Thursday, 20 January 2005 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

That is true but fench chardonnays are made with a little more craft and are a little less crassly bland when they are made well, but I guess that is true for other regions.

It does seem to be easier to produce as less bland wine with Sauvignon, Semillion, Muscadelle, Muscat, Albarino, Malviso (and the other white spanish varieties) and some of the myriad Italian varieties (Tokai a particular favorite).

Spanish whites howvere are a bargain, they seem to be incredibly underrated and cheap as a result. Very complex blends of flavours, a little hevay handed as they are often hevaily oaked but far more reliable on a random pick than the much abused whites of other countries.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 January 2005 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

From my experience South Africa, Particularly the western cape as fallen under the bland chardonnay spell much less than other bits of the new world (bear in mind i base this judgement on drinking in SA; I don't drink non-european wines in europe).

In the western cape they have an excellent heritage (some vineyards going back to the early 17th C), but also a willingness to use that heritage to experiment. Yes they do produce a lot of chardonnay, but they make a lot of very good wines there and most vineyards have four or five white grape varieties on the go with four or five red so you get a lot of interesting blends. I'd go as far to say that the Westerncape if probably one of the best white wine regions in the world.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 January 2005 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Dunno so much about that, quite a lot of unadulterated viura tastes like paint-stripper, though alvarinho blends from penedes do rule, and as a general rule of thumb I agree with you that Spain's bottom end whites are much maligned.

The chardonnay haters need to try some top end argentinian chardonnay (try Zuccardo Estates). Whilst I broadly agree that a lot of the middle ground is flabby pish (and a lot of Chablis is horrifically unfocused) there are great chardonnays out there.

Whites that rock my world tend towards viognier (and by god but theres bargains galore to be found with this grape), riesling and gewurtztraminer. But to be honest I never fall prey to the madness of ruling out a particular varietal. There's good examples of everything out there somewhere. Even Pinot Grigio (though I doubt I could be arsed looking).

x-post

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 20 January 2005 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

But if the middle ground and low end are basically all complete cat pee, why would you WANT to spend a lot more to just try out a high end bottle of something you've basically hated in all incarnations you've had of it so far? I understand your point but I could probably say the same thing for, say, scotch too but I'm not a great big fan of scotch so I'm not going to buy a $200 bottle of it to make sure I'm only meh on it...I guess it's like what you just said with the "even Pinot Grigio" line.

My main point with this thread is to try to suss out WHY Chardonnay is so popular, I think the point that it is "poshy" sounding but easy to pronounce is good and the point that was made about wine reviewers saying things like "notes of cat urine and lima beans" which make absolutely no sense that they actually PUT UP IN LIQUOR STORES (???) was very good as well, but FFS, I shouldn't be walking into one of the largest wine stores in NYC, which used to have an entire floor with an excellent variety of whites, and be faced with an entire wall being entirely taken up by chardonnay. They've all but entirely ditched any other type of white, they get token single slots on shelves. I guess it's better than white zinfandel.

Spencer, it's not the Napa Valley I hate, it's the combination of the words "CHARDONNAY NAPA VALLEY" that I hate.

― Allyzay Highlights The Fallacy of Radiohead (allyzay), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Things that are really popular:

1. Chardonnay
2. Sport Utility Vehicles
3. Golf

I won't even get into Usher and Kenny Chesney. But I think that somehow this is all related, that the reason I am posting on a message board right now instead of socializing in meatspace is also part of this, and it's kind of enough for me to know and accept that I basically will never, ever truly understand about 85% of the world except in terms of "you like shit."

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That guy who dressed as a box of pink wine for Halloween was awesome.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I wholly approve of Allyzay's CHARDONNAY NAPA VALLEY hate.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the process goes like this: first, a segment of the public, eager for guidance in the mysterious but prestigious world of wine, discovers an easy-to-drink wine, like oaky chardonnay; then winemakers notice that it's selling well and make and plant more of it, often of lesser quality but who cares because "chardonnay" on the label is all it needs to sell.

The same thing happened with merlot in the 90s. People realized there were some delicious merlots, the word "merlot" became all you needed to sell a wine, and the market became flooded with nasty over-oaked pop merlots.

― Paul Eater (eater), Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Watch out, shiraz -- you could be next.

― Paul Eater (eater), Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Boo hiss, I really, really like chardonnays. They are yum. (Not as yum as rieslings or gewurtztraminers but yum nevertheless.) Then again I also like black coffee so my tolerance for bitter aftertastes is remarkably high.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 January 2005 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Hello, you drink wine with food. This is why people buy Cabernet rather than Pinot Noir, even though the latter is better-suited to drinking by itself.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Though there are many chardonnay-type foods that you can/might rather pair with pinot noir/sauv/sem/etc

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

that's like saying you drink beer with food as a justification for Bud Light.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

De gustibus disputandum non est folks, but what I don't like about most Napa chardonnays is the result of the malalactic acid which gives them a buttery taste I cannot abide. With the exception of champagne, I don't tend to drink chardonnay without food but if someone wants to burden me with a bottle of Chassagne-Montrachet, I might change my mind. I have recently fallen in love with sauvingon blancs, especially from NZ and the Loire and Alsacian rieslings and gewurztraminers.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Chardonnay is a staple wine; I don't think that's going to change. I don't think it's any more or less popular now than it's ever been. It's simply a very accessible wine that goes well with a variety of dishes, so you're going to see a lot of it.

The only problem I see with the vast proliferation of Chardonnay is that I don't see a wide range of variety (like you do in, say, a Pinot or a Riesling). It's either dry or not, creamy or not. I don't find myself saying "wow, that's a really unique wine" with many of the Chards I drink (Only La Crema and Sticks stand out recently)

On the other hand, I'm noticing some incredible stuff coming from the blended market (I'm starting to reluctantly move away from my Pinot Noir obsession) such as "Sinister Hand" and even Zinfindels (Norman Estates "The Monster" is an eye-opener if you appreciate big wines).

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, I'm glad to see that people are starting to embrace dessert wines besides Riesling (I think I feel about Riesling the way Ally feels about Chards). Some much deserved attention is going to the Hungarian Tokaj & other similar wines. My favorite of the "liquid gold" variety is Dolce's "Late Harvest", but it's pricey ($78 for a 375mL bottle).

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't drink wine with food; I drink wine with GUSTO!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

that's like saying you drink beer with food as a justification for Bud Light.

which emphasizes/complements what food?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Cheeseburger fries, duh.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Oatmeal Stout

these chardonnay-drinkers apparently eat more seafood, though

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Tokaj

One of Louis XIV's favorites.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.pamelashanteau.com/pics/Sulu-Takai.jpg

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet and consequently drank bad, overly-oaky chardonnay by the caseload, the poor tasteless bastard.

― Aimless (Aimless), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Chardonnay is a staple wine; I don't think that's going to change. I don't think it's any more or less popular now than it's ever been.

"A recent article from Vineyard and Winery Management showed some startling trends from 1990 to 2000:

* Acreage of Chardonnay in Europe has increased by 25%, from 30-40,000 hectares.
* In the New World acreage has tripled from 60,000 to 180,000 HA. In Chile, plantings have increased 9-fold, in Australia/New Zealand 3-fold, and in Argentina 4-fold
* In California, 17% of the total crush is Chardonnay, and 60% of recent growth in wine production in California has been Chardonnay. The size of the Chardonnay market is more than that of Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon combined.
* 43 million cases of California Chardonnay were produced in 2000; about 6.5 million more cases will be on the market by 2004."

― Paul Eater (eater), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Also cabernet totally doesn't deserve its reputation as a food-friendly wine unless you eat nothing but beef every day, and really not even then.

― Paul Eater (eater), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I just read this from the link to the chateau I went to!! : "Thomas Jefferson, futur président des Etats Unis, a apprécié les vins de Nicolas Pichard, propriétaire du Château Dudon."

Haha wow! Somehow I can't imagine them saying "Benjamin Franklin, author of Poor Richard's Almanac and influential politician during the American Revolution, was known for his appreciation of a nice glass of Chardonnay"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 20 January 2005 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

that sounds like Wine Rockist talk to me.... :)

― jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 20 January 2005 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.kobrandwine.com/labels/jpv001.jpg

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 January 2005 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm no wine buff. I go for the cheapest one with the most bronze medals.

― thee music mole, Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

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