Why do people like "Hoosiers" so much again?

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always named one of the greatest sports movies ever, but why? it is ridiculously reverent, has dennis hopper playing dennis hopper, there's no comedy, stays far away from the very obvious racial subtext to the final game, etc. yes hackman is great and yes the "this basket is 10 feet high" thing is okay, but shit, i'd take blue chips, pistol, like mike and -- especially -- white men can't jump over this as the greatest basketball movie. and clearly the greatest sports movie is either slapshot or bull durham (hint: bull durham).

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It was 1986. The country was slightly diseased. (I recall that there was talk at the time that Hopper's Oscar nomination should have been for Blue Velvet, which would have been cool.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

More sports movies better than this: Any Given Sunday, Friday Night Lights, Varsity Blues...

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

HOOP DREAMS

nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

nothing is more sweet and true than indiana high school basketball.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

COOL RUNNINGS

sexy waitress connie stevens (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i like "hoosiers" despite hating hoosiers.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

nothing is more sweet and true than indiana high school basketball

I protest. Peanut butter and chocolate ice cream is sweeter and truer.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

is it an excellent movie, if you played basketball in a basketball obsessed small-town, as you might well have, traitor.

i didn't (play or live, well in jr high i played but nevermind) but there was a basketball obsessed town nearby.

we have a class system (not FOUR like indiana now has, but two) so there was no chance of a showdown w/ chicago westinghouse or anything.

jimmy chitwood, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus christ ned why did you have to do that.

j.c ., Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

one basketball movie to rule them all:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6301650425.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

john'n'chicago, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i remember, when i was like 8 we had a 6'6 black kid come down from chicago, god knows why, and i tell ya folks, that place was PACKED on them friday nights. those were good times, gone now. we went 27-3 that season, even tho his height and athleticism were never properly utilized by our dumhead coach. no offense guy.

si did an article a couple yers back abt the slow death of midwestern basketball; it was prolly good but i didn't read it.

guy de mosspants, Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

because they went out and won it for all the small schools that never really had a chance

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus christ ned why did you have to do that.

What, exist? I had no say in that, sorry.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway if you're not from indiana or kentucky or maybe north carolina you can't understand basketball anyway.

(ha! take that, virginia boy!)

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

SPIKE LEE TO THREAD!

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

stence virginia tech stands a good shot at winning the nit

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

anyhow i like 'hoosiers' but i like 'the natural' too so take that fwiw

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

yancepants is it just me or is yr blogbaseball piece um GONE?

i love the natural!! still haven't actually seen it tho.

good show, Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"hokies"

and who cares about the nit anyway.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i was just fucking with yanc3y there

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

why is it even on television any more?

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

they don't want to dilute the demand for tilt by reshowing it too much?

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha, right.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah i took down the baseball piece temporarily. a magazine i would be psyched to be in is apparently interested in running it, so i took it offline just in case it being on the blog would prevent it from being picked up. i'm sure they'll pass, in which case it'll be back up again soon enough.

and i hear everyone on the smalltown ball thing -- shit, i played smalltown basketball, albeit jv and not varsity -- but the whole thing just hits me with the same sorta '50s golden era for america bullshit where black people don't exist and all of our problems can be solved by putting our hopes in a 17-year-old phenom and jesus our lord and savior. maybe i'm being too callous and maybe i'm reading too much into it, but by and large i see this movie as being very very reactionary in an unsubtle/subtle way that really rankles. and the fact that is was made just as jordan and magic and 'nique were taking over the nba bears mention as well; is it coincidence that once the nba started becoming more popular as a black sport that hollywood turns out "the peach basket: white boys who play the game right"? i don't think so. and wtf, hopper got an oscar nod for this???

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

DUDE THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE IN HOOSIERS. they lose to the triumphant smalltown honkies tho.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, shit, the james dobson-funded pistol is FAR MORE progressive in terms of race than hoosiers~

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Hoosiers is ESPN's fave. because it is not about a fringe sport (slapshot, the cuttting edge, beckham etc.), nor is it about black people (every other sports movie), nor does it contain any references to islam (when we were kings) or very much swearing.

Jimmy Mod Has Returned With Spices And Silks (ModJ), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Sort of off topic, but do any people still think of *Field of Dreams* as a great baseball movie? I totally forget. It wasn't even the best 1919 Black Sox-related movie of the 1988-1989, for crissakes! (That would have been *Eight Men Out,* obviously.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, but it was still a pretty good movie.

Jimmy Mod Has Returned With Spices And Silks (ModJ), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"Honkies" may be the best word ever.

sunburned and snowblind (kenan), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway *Hoosiers* was sort of the John Cougar Mellencamp of movies(though *Scarecrow* from the year before and *The Lonesome Jubilee* from the year after were both way better.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

the only thing wrong with 'bull durham' is that tim robbins cannot throw a baseball properly. other than that, it might be perfect.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 17 March 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

A friend of mine's dad was a starter for the Muncie Central team that lost to Milan in 1954 which the Hoosiers movie is based upon. Central won the most state titles during the one tournament era, so those guys that lost to Milan definitely had to take some guff for losing that game.

earlnash, Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

http://espn.go.com/page2/movies/s/simmons/020827.html

Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

nuke laloosh! bull durham rules the school

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I spent four years in Indiana but I never saw this movie.

Breaking Away rules, though.

miccio (miccio), Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

True. *Breaking Away* was the John Cougar (without the Mellencamp) of movies.

xhuxk, Thursday, 17 March 2005 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Field of Dreams is not about baseball.

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's about playing catch with your dead father, duh.

(AK: dude!)

Jimmy Mod Has Returned With Spices And Silks (ModJ), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

o man pistol's one of my all-time fave sports movies for all the wrong reasons, second only to the hank gathers story in wrongness

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yo that kid was no Pistol Pete -- he dribbles wif his head down in all his scenes.

Jimmy Mod Has Returned With Spices And Silks (ModJ), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(JM i am in world of problems right now sorry i did not call back yesterday)

Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

(AK: sux. will talk later)

Jimmy Mod Has Returned With Spices And Silks (ModJ), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Jams, why the hell should Hoosiers be 'progressive' about race? It takes place in '50s rural Indiana for Christs sake. There were hardly any black people there then, and there hardly are now. Any kind of pandering to that kind of Stalinist 'serve the cause' approach to art, would have just been patronizing and, frankly, untrue.

a hoosier, Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

but doesn't address that the movie was made in the 1980s like yancey mentioned.

mitch dub (ano ano), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

o come on, the finale of hoosiers is somewhat the 'root for the underdog white guys against the scary black guys' formula that sly stallone rode to the bank. PLUS the 'gee remember when basketball was about hardworking white guys who had fundamentals - that was the golden age' is the angle of this film AND the angle of pretty much every kneejerk conservative piece you read about college basketball every year (cf. VERMONT 2005)(cf. JJ REDICK 2005)('they represent everything good about the game')('white guys'). what tempers the charge with 'hoosiers' somewhat is that there is that reaction shot at the end of the black coach consoling the black player, one of the few times i can really think of a film paying attention to the losing team (for reasons other than to gloat) at all.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

what about when preppie Johnnie says 'You're all right, Laruso' at the end of the Karate Kid?

shookout (shookout), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, the race factor comes in at the end, as james mentions. sure you can't change facts or any of that -- no, hollywood NEVER does that -- but certainly some attempt to address the fact that -- hi! -- there are suddenly black people on screen for the first time.

james, talk about pistol!

oh and the mellencamp analogy is very, very apt.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

and to cut straight to the point: my issue isn't quite so much with how the film fails to address race, but more as to: a) when the movie came out and b) the sort of reaction it receives now.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

god me and a friend went to the sec tourney last week and standing in line waiting to get in we started to do 'all time best nba career' for the various school - dominique:uga, bernard king: tennessee, etc. - and we were talking about how lsu had 3 players in that nba top 50 list. anyhow a couple of days later i'm talking to my dad and telling him about this and he asks 'who'd yall pick for lsu?' and i say 'um, shaq OBVIOUSLY' and he says 'no way, PETE MARAVICH'. insane.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

anyhow my fave scene in pistol is when press maravich goes to a black high school to recruit/integrate the team and his assistant coach is all 'gee press, i don't know...' and he's all 'i think america's ready for it' like press maravich is branch fucking rickey gimme a break. anyhow what's great about the scene is up to this point it's been kinda like hoosiers, practically set in the fifties though i guess it's the mid to late sixties, but when they go to the black school all of a sudden the soundtrack becomes insane over the top isaac hayes wahwah funk, it's pretty funny.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

certainly as a pro i'd pick shaq, but pistol averaged like 50ppg at lsu!!!

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I've still never seen this. In fact I was just thinking about it because they've been pimping the DVD or something like that on ESPN? I dunno, it just reminded me that I've never seen and don't have much desire to. I mentioned it Josh in Chicago the other day and he RUINED it for me by revealing that they win.

as much I love sports, I just can't get into sports movies. too hackneyed, too corny. all that Rudy, Knute Rockne, Hoosiers little-engine-that-could shit. Maybe I just hate Indiana. I liked the Tin Cup when Costner goes crazy at the end and blows the round. That was kind of cool.

but yeah put me down for Slapshot. or Caddyshack if that counts.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

caddyshack totally counts. and tin cup is great!

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yanc3 OTM re: Pistol Pete. Just found that out last week (the 50 ppg thing) - crazy!

Someone should check & see if Bill Simmons gets any royalty payments for all the press he gave Hoosiers & for every time he answers the "how many points DID Chitwood score?" question. (Yeah, it ain't that hot, but the picket fence play still gets me.) (Some of this might have to do w/ watching this for the first time w/ my dad.)

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 17 March 2005 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

o yeah, maravich over shaq at the college level, hell chris jackson over shaq at the college level. we were doing it strictly on how they performed at the nba level.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 17 March 2005 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oddly enough, our newspaper's friday movie section recently started a regular column called "flashback" where the writer discusses "classics." today's, in the spirit of march madness (oh yeah, and it's perfectly timed dvd release), happens to be Hoosiers. i'm gonna go copy/paste for those interested. hang on.

andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

philipmartin on Hoosiers:

Often cited as “the best sports movie of all time,” the basketball fairy tale Hoosiers resurfaced last week, just in time for March Madness. This time it shows up in a handsome double-DVD collector’s edition, that includes — among other things — the kinescope of the 1954 Indiana High School State Championship game in which tiny Milan High School, enrollment 161, upset mighty Muncie Central in the contest that inspired the movie’s ultimate showdown.
As rousing a male weepie as has ever been committed to film, it is good to remember Hoosiers was merely inspired by the so-called “Milan Miracle.” In the film, it’s the Hickory Huskies who are the ultimate underdogs. Names are changed, and Dennis Hopper’s character Shooter — the town drunk turned assistant coach — is a complete invention. Similarly, Gene Hackman’s Coach Norman Dale, a fiery, middle-aged former college coach with a vaguely seedy past, bears little resemblance to soft-spoken Milan coach Marvin Wood, who was only 26 years old when Milan shocked the basketball world. Wood was in his second year as head coach of the team, not his first, and though he did initially face some opposition from the townspeople after he replaced a popular coach (who didn’t die, as in the film, but was fired for disobeying the school superintendent’s orders), he was firmly in command throughout the championship season.
While Milan’s victory was shocking, it had reached the semi-finals of the tournament the year before with many of the same players. The school had a considerable basketball tradition; while in the movie there are barely enough would-be players for Hickory to field a team, in real life most of Milan’s male students tried out. Mild-mannered Coach Wood had to cut four boys for every one who earned a jersey.
So Hoosiers isn’t a docudrama — as the team’s star player, Bobby Plump (represented by the character Jimmy Driftwood in the film) told the Saturday Evening Post in 1987, “the final 18 seconds were the only thing factual in the movie.” So what?
Hoosiers features remarkable performances from Hopper and Hackman as damaged men working their way back up to self-respect. Hackman’s Dale has weathered much and has learned to repress a simmering rage. At the beginning he’s embarrassed to be stuck in the sticks with the hicks, but he finds redemption through teaching his kids how to win. He’s able to offer Shooter — who missed the key shot in an important game long ago — another chance at earning the town’s respect.
That’s all so corny, but what’s great about Hoosiers is the way it captures the often claustrophobic, sometimes comforting feeling of living in a small conservative town where everyone’s connections to everyone else are open and obvious. There’s no condescension in the way these folks are portrayed, though Hickory is neither Mayberry nor Disney’s Main Street.
While the cinematography by Fred Murphy is genuinely beautiful, there’s a certain clunkiness in some of the basketball set pieces. David Anspaugh is a capable enough director, but in those choreographed scenes one can sense a whiff of a missed opportunity. Spike Lee might have introduced some jazz into the proceedings. As it is, Jerry Goldsmith’s faux Copland score — ingenious on its own — contributes to a certain slickness of the packaging. Better the squeak of sneakers and the thrum of the dribble than swirling, emotive music.
In retrospect, Hoosiers survives as a classic, albeit one that deserves an asterisk. As the immortal Oscar Robertson and others have pointed out, the Muncie Central team that Milan defeated was not an all-black squad; there were only two black players on the team. Still, the Hickory Huskies defeat an all-black team — an arrogant and obnoxious bunch, coached by blacks, with black faces rooting for them in the stands.
As it was, Milan did defeat a team from an all-black high school in the semi-finals of the tournament: Indianapolis’ Crispus Attucks, for which the great Robertson played. The school was admitted to the state high school tournament only a few years before, and its players had much to overcome on and off the court. Under the circumstances, to have cast an all-black school as a privileged powerhouse in 1950s Indiana seems bizarre.

andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

ha! just noticed something. the paragraph where he mistakenly calls the character Jimmy Driftwood didn't appear in print. saved from that embarassment.

andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Friday, 18 March 2005 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Bobby Plum owns a restaurant in Broad Ripple (neighborhood in Indianapolis) called 'Plump's Last Shot.'

shookout (shookout), Saturday, 19 March 2005 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

One cool thing is that the final game in Hoosiers is shot at the Butler fieldhouse, the site of the original Muncie Central/Milan game. That place is a great place to see a game, I have seen Butler play a few times.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 19 March 2005 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

nineteen years pass...

rade butcher avoids jail time for sexual assault

https://timesuniononline.com/news/2024/aug/09/warsaw-dentist-receives-probation-for-confinement-battery-of-former-employee

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 August 2024 16:18 (one year ago)


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