I Just Read That Jesus' Name Was Really Joshua.

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I never knew that. seems the jew-haterz who traslated the bible changed a lot of the jewish names. except for judas. he got to keep his cuz he was evil. and mary's name was miryam! i had no idea. pretty shitty thing to do to the son of god and his momma, dontcha think? i like miryam! um, there is a lot of stuff i don't know about christianity cuz i was brought up a heathen with no god.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I always wondered how a buncha middle eastern dudes from 2000 years ago were called Matthew Mark Luke and John.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost
His surname wasn't Christ either.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

what? his middle initial isn't h?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Joshua ben Miriam
or
Joshua ben Joseph

depending on who you believe.

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 25 March 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

His name was Chaim Witz!

― Matt Chesnut, Friday, 25 March 2005 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

*chuckles lots*
**could be the beer, tho; as xtianity doesn't make one chuckle much now duz it?**

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

and marty goldblatz sayeth unto them...

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost
Joshua ben God?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"if you feel, you're healed"

http://cover09.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/06/160906.jpg

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"Christ" is more like a job title.

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"joseph what should we called the baby?" "well I've always been partial to 'the christ child' myself" *mary backs slowly away*

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

So what do you do?
Christ.
I only asked!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

To be fair, Josh Christ doesn't have the same dramatic ring to it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

the cartoon history of the world part 1 has it as "jeshua," so that's what i go with.

― f--gg (gcannon), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

google the entymology(sp) of "jehovah"

― BOATPEOPLEHATEFUCK (ex machina), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

And Moses father named him Chaver, and his granddad called him Avigdor, but history knows him as Moses--actually Phroah's daughter named him Minios, which was Egyptian, and the name Moshe (Moses) was a Hebrew translation of that.

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

YAHO-Hohsu-WAH
according to these hollow-earthers

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

things get lost in translation and sometimes things gets added too. like adding "jesus" to documents of history, when people "forgot" to record his actual doings in real space-time dimension. It would be naughty for a scribe to have missed historical proofs of teh jesus, isn'it, so these additions were corrections, not revisions, right? performative logic of truth makes me laugh.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

from Willis Barnstone's The Poetics Of Translation: "One of the key ingredients in the manufacture of powerful texts is controlled error. Through error, a form of mistranslation, texts are censored, altered, added to, and made authoritative and authorized."

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/1corinthians.html

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

re. mary

well the name is different in different languages anyway: mary/marie/maria/etc. which are all just versions of the hebrew miryam anyway.

i do wonder about "luke" and so on, though. i don't know if these too are some kind of variant (or variant of a variant) of some original hebrew name (or aramaic name?), or just some name more or less arbitrarily assigned by some monk somewhere farther down the line.

i thought jesus's brother was named joshua. if not, what was his brother's name?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Pope Shlomo III

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

james.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

which "james" you speaking about, AaronK?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I always learned that Jesus's name was "Yeshua" and Joshua (my name) is "Yehoshua," but that they're basically forms of the same name.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

It's interesting that the person the Christians chose as their savior just *happened* to have a name meaning "The Lord is my salvation."

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

it would really suck to be jesus's brother. i wonder if he was an alcoholic.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

All that free wine...

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe he wasn't an alcoholic but more like eminece grisee? ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 25 March 2005 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"i do wonder about "luke" and so on, though."

Luke was not Jewish. He was a Greek from Antioch. It's short for Lucanus, I think.

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, 'Christ' just means 'annointed', but a lot of you probably already know that.

― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

It's interesting that the person the Christians chose as their savior just *happened* to have a name meaning "The Lord is my salvation."

As Michel Onfray said, "Jesus" is a conceptual character made by Mediterranean poor people under occupation, an invention answering a problem of political resistance to the violent roman occupation of the territory. Occupied people living in the mediteranean area were absolutely powerless, having nothing to oppose military cohort but words, divine millennialism, god stuff to the rescue, to get them out of this political mess they were in: so this is a metaphysical ambiance of fear, angst, worry, making a favorable terrain to the making of a christic figure.

They had enough of the romans power and wanted to get rid of it, to realize the prophecy of the ancient testament here on earth, making the new world here and now.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, the name Larry Gonick uses in one of the volumes of The Cartoon History of the Universe is Yeshua ben Joseph.

I think the Y/J thing happens a lot in translation, which can be how you go from YHWH to Yahweh to Jehovah.

― kingfish, Friday, 25 March 2005 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Kingfish is correct. There is no "J" in Hebrew.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

[a. L. Is-s, a. Gr. , ad. late Heb. or Aram. ysh, Jeshua, for the earlier y'hsh, Jehoshua or Joshua (explained as ‘Jah (or Jahveh) is salvation’: cf. y'shh ‘salvation, deliverance’, and Matt. i. 21), a frequent Jewish personal name, which, as that of the Founder of Christianity, has passed through Gr. and L. into all the languages of Christendom.
In OE. rendered by hlend ‘saviour’ (see HEALEND); but during the ME. period regularly used in its OF. (objective) form Iesu (Jesu). The (L. nom.) form Iesus (Jesus) was rare in ME., but became the regular Eng. form in 16th c. Yet in Tindale's New Test., 1525-34, the form Iesu was generally used where the Gr. has , the Vulgate Iesu, in the vocative and oblique cases. This was, as a rule, retained by Coverdale 1535, and in the Great Bible 1539, also, in the vocative instances, in the Bishops' Bible 1568; but in representing the Gr. oblique cases, this has Iesus. Iesu disappeared from the Geneva 1557 (exc. in one place), and from the Rhemish 1582, and the version of 1611. Jesu was frequent in the earlier forms of the Book of Common Prayer, and survives in one place; in later use it occurs in hymns, rarely in nom. or obj., but frequently in the vocative. In hymns, the possessive Jesus' is commonly sung (dizjuz).
In ME. the name was rarely written in full, being usually represented by the abbreviations ihu, and ihc, ihs, ihus, or iu, etc.: see IHS. These have been commonly expanded by modern editors as Ihesu, Ihesus, forms which occur occasionally in MSS. and in early 16th c. printed books.]

(from OED)

― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"jesus" may be a "conceptual character" but he was also a real person with, one presumes, a real name.

xxxpost

which, apparenly, was yeshua. thanks dudes.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

but he was also a real person
Are you just sayin' this or you have material proof I'm not aware of?

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Happy Easter.

― pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Something had to have been going on back then, because it's not as if the gospels, Acts and epistles appeared a couple of hundred years later.

― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Sebastien we don't even have material proof of YOU!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

sebastien's real name is biff

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm telling you, my name really is Sébastien, and as I write this it becomes a historic proof of my existence. a self-fulfilling prophecy, sort of.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i always thought jesus's brother's name was James.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Joshua the Messiah ---->> translated into Greek ---->> Jesus Christ, no?

Check this out: !!!!!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22britney+spears%22&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22jesus+christ%22&btnG=Search&meta=

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Britney more popular than Jesus SHOCKA

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus's and james's real name were tik and tok

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

John Lennon was correct!!!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22beatles%22&btnG=Search&meta=

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Jimmy, actually. Jimmy Christ. He was a bit of loose cannon actually.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

We have no PROOF that Jesus lived but there's alot of Roman scribes that speak of him, as well as the Nag Hamadi library, so I think it's fairly safe to say he did walk on water.

However: I'm actually sort of a bible scholar and I've never been able to reconcile the pork & shellfish thing. You ask a contemporary Christian from Texas why he continues to eat this shit, and he'll make a vague reference to a part of the OT that speaks of "..man's dominion over all the earth." But it NEVER says, "And JESUS handed out bacon and shrimp cocktail to the disciples..." As far as we know, Jesus was a practicing Jew who would not have eaten unclean filth like bacon or shrimp cocktail. But so it goes...

― andy --, Friday, 25 March 2005 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

but jesus died so that we could all eat shrimp cocktail, no?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

A noble reason, I think we can all agree.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

aaron, is that burial box thing turned out to be a fake, or is it like evolution as fact, open to debate? Anyway, no matter how many families back then had members named "jesus" and "james", I just wanna clone of god, yeh.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, there's gotta be a few interesting histories on how jewish dietary laws were integrated into the canon/O.T.

i wish Tep were here.

but yeah, not only with the pork & shellfish thing, but also the clothes & mixed fiber thing, the beard thing, and most of the other amusing & not-so-amusing bits o' Leviticus(of which the Lego Bible/Brick Testament makes a point of vividly illustrating).

against, this comes back to the whole literalist/interpretive thing, and how those most vocally stating that they're basing their moral/political/economic beliefs from merely "doing what the Bible says" (and therefore morally Right and Unquestionable), only tend to focus on the certain bits.

of course, there's bound to be no shortage of analysis than can be done with the literal interp of a passage like "spare the rod and spoil the child" meaning that you must have a half-meter-long wooden stick to beat your kids with, since thru this punishment of very painful means is the only way yer kid will learn.

― kingfish, Friday, 25 March 2005 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

there are a number of references in the New Testament to Jesus invoking the wrath of the Pharisees (ie, Jewish authorities) for not being a strict observer of various commandments in Leviticus (dietary laws, specifics of worship, etc.) That probably explains a bit of the dichotomy kingfish is referring to - as Christians give greater weight to the New Testament than the old. Needless to say, there are bazillion contradictions between the new and old testaments, being as they are totally separate documents.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

wjerever two or three of you gather together to talk about biblical shit, tep will be there.

― Grahame "Beaky" Beecroft, Friday, 25 March 2005 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously I'm blanking on what verses they are, but there's definitely numerous instances of Jesus saying "all that old traditional shit doesn't matter, what's really important is that you BELIEVE IN ME, have faith, etc." thus giving Xtian fundies plenty of rhetorical ammo to pick and choose what they please from the Old Testament.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i was just linking that page to show that JC's bro is generally accepted to be Jimmy. thats all.

about the dietary laws - i think its in ACTS somehwere. peter has a dream or something where god shows him a table layed out with squirmy, shelled, and many-legged animals and tells him to eat it.

contradictions indeed.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus says that shit about the food and pharisees and ads that whatever goes into your mouth, you eventually shit out, but what's more important is what comes out of your mouth (words, not puke) because it comes from the heart of man.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Larry Gonick's bit on this is great in the CHotU, illustrating where one of the Jesus a lot of the then authorities(read: Pharisees) thought that He was nuts for saying that, that we shouldn't really worry about what goes in, but rather what comes out.

― kingfish, Friday, 25 March 2005 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus on family values, from Matther Chapter 10:

" 21 Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man's foes will be those of his own household.. "

― andy --, Friday, 25 March 2005 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i dont think JC is PRO family killing in vs 21. but he definitely is about broken homes in vs 35.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

That last bit about a man's foes is SO TRUE!

― andy --, Friday, 25 March 2005 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The big dif bet OT and NT is the shift in importance from genes to memes, yo.

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, Fundies give greater weight to the OT. Just watch Pat Robertson some time.

― Shatterproof Glass (dymaxia), Friday, 25 March 2005 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course the Fundies would avoid Christ's word: he speaks in parables.

― Silky Sensor (sexyDancer), Friday, 25 March 2005 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"Joshua the Messiah ---->> translated into Greek ---->> Jesus Christ, no?"

Yeshua the Anointed = Iesous Xristos. There is no "C" in Greek. If the fundies weren't full of it, and really were old school, they'd learn their Aramaic, and attend to the correct spelling.

― Galen of Pergamon, Friday, 25 March 2005 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

never underestimate the power of branding...

and some fundies LOVE their aramaic(e.g. Gibson, Mel)

― kingfish, Friday, 25 March 2005 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Going back to Mary's name, I had understood that it was the Aramaic Mariam rather than the Hebrew Miriam (obviously they're just different versions of the same name). Even today her name is Mariam in Arabic.

― Amarga (Amarga), Saturday, 26 March 2005 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

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