holidaying in Israel & Palestine: classic or dud?

I don't know anything about traveling in the territories. It's probably not easy. Israel however, at the moment, isn't particularly dangerous to visit. Even when there are bombings, the chances of you being hit are relatively small, though some say it's better to stay off the buses, and if you're really worried, out of crowded cafes.

The northern part of Israel -- the Galilee and Golan -- are especially pretty and worth visiting. See if you can maybe stay on a kibbutz in the region, as they usually have guest rooms available.

A much bigger concern (for me anyway) is the heat -- you might want to wait until the summer passes.

When are you going? If it will be near the pullout period then your chances of traveling from Israel to the West Bank or Gaza are going to be pretty slim. Things are going to be sealed up tight to prevent potential conflict.

I bet the heat will be the suck. It certainly was in Lebanon in October 2002. Sadly I have to go in August, if I go at all, so I expect that I will dry up and blow away in the wind.

Are Jerusalem and the West Bank not nice and cool, what with being up in the hills and stuff?

I also kind of have to go to Ramallah, as the personal reasons calling me to that part of the world are centred on that unfortunate town. so I expect a lot of standing around at checkpoints.

Because of the Gaza pullout travelling in the territories in August is going to be very difficult, if they let you pass through at all. It seems like things are going to be pretty locked down.

One problem Israel might give, however, and we were warned of this in Jordan, is that an Israeli stamp on your passport may cause difficulties if you want to travel to nearly any other Middle Eastern country (syria being particularly difficult, apparently) except Jordan (which has an effectively open border. Jordanian visas are considered less than desirable because of this border also.

(it's funny, I started a similar thread on another forum, and it rapidly has become all about the visa stamps).

AaronK - Haifa sounds like my kind of town.

They're the only ones I've looked at in any way closely.

Probably not, though you might vice versa.

no, it wont be a problem. i did it - they asked a couple questions about what i was doing there, but israel doesn't have a policy to deny entry to people with lebanese visa stamps. though, if you have an israeli stamp, you definitely will be denied entry to Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, (but Jordan is OK) and a bunch of other places like that.. So if you plan on going back to any of those countries with your current passport, when you get to Israeli customs, ask them to stamp you in on a separate piece of paper (not your passport). they'll almost always do that. and then dont lose that paper!! so that way you wont have evidence of visiting israel in your passport

Back to Palesrael guidebooks... there is some explicitly Palestinian tourism guidebook you can order off the interweb. I'll probably order it myself and then be afraid that if the Israeli border people find it they'll assume I'm coming in to stand in front of bulldozers and deport me. When I find the URL again I will post it here so anyone who is interested can order it. It seems to have been written since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada, so it might have more helpful information on travelling around the Territories now than either of the guidebooks mentioned above. Might not be so good for nightclubs in Tel Aviv.

Michael - where is the Jezreel valley? Obviously, I could just look at a map, but personal informations are always more interesting.

Go fuck yourself.

haifa is gorgeous! it is a city on a hill facing the ocean, with landscaped terraces and cafes under ivied trellises and gardens and narrow crisscrossing roads and so on. it is like nice, or la jolla, or something.

culturally there seemed to be much much less tension between jews and arabs (from my not-privileged outsider perspective) than in jerusalem, you see fewer police and military and it is neither touristy like jerusalem nor utterly european like tel aviv.

you are also close to towns like akka which have fascinating archeological sites and a much more "arab" vibe to them, if you want to crawl bazaars or follow traditional wedding processions or stuff like that.

Go fuck yourself.

while i think barry and i have pretty different views on israel/palestine, we're sympatico here. that's really fucking out of line.

eh, yeah. I think you and Hurting are inferring things I didn't seek to imply in my above post. However, looking back on what I wrote, I see how it could reasonably be taken the way you seem to have taken it. I therefore apologise for any offence caused.

What I was trying to get across was the idea that a self-described Palestinian travel guidebook would have a different focus to one more focussed on things Israeli.

Again, apologies for offence caused by my careless choice of words.

I apologize too.

I think it's great that we are all apologising to each other!

getting back to an earlier point, does anyone know of an English language guidebook to That Part Of The World which was published in the last couple of years?

On another side of things, I gather that Israel's buses don't run on the sabbath, which is convenient. Does anyone know if service taxis (or sheruts, as I think they call them) are also offline then?

I'm going on a Birthright tour from the 13th to the 23rd this month. Anyone been to Israel lately that has any recommendations? Good falafal joints?

best are in afula.

I was going to start an 'RFI: Israel' thread, but perhaps this will do?

I'm going to go there in just over two weeks, and any and all info would be appreciated. I'll be around Tel Aviv mainly I think.

I hate the word "holidaying", it's so bourgeoise.

"holiday" as a ver = ultimate dud

verb*

Dude, vacationing abroad in general is bourgeois, what the fuck do you want?

I didn't start the fucking thread title.

I'm going to be in Israel just a couple weeks after you, S.

Tel Aviv is a great city. I can't say I know it that well - only been once in my adult life and I was pretty much just following my wife's lead. But you should go to Yaffo (Jaffa) and the Arab market there and obviously plan to spend some time on the beach. There's a neighborhood we went to whose name I can't remember that had good cafes and a surprisingly good record store. The food pretty much everywhere we ate was good -- Israel has a strong food culture with a mix of influences and generally high quality produce and dairy -- but again no memory of place names.

I visited Israel about a month ago and it was very CLASSIC. We didn't go into the West Bank or Gaza, but we spent a few days in the Golan (which was gorgeous). If you're mostly in Tel Aviv (which is really a city, as such things go), though, I don't know that I can recommend anything cool to do there... we were really only there for a day.

i saw an israel tourism ad tonight - 'you'll love it from the first shalom!'

Did I even address you, you cunt? No.

So don't be cursing at me AIIGHT

it's about to POP AWF.

Thanks Hurting. What can I expect from the weather? Is there anything notable music-wise (stores, venues, etc.)? I was considering trying to set up a gig or two, but it's impractical enough to lug a ton of gear halfway across the world, and then the thought of going through El Al security with a case full of metal boxes, wires and batteries...

What date do you get there?

yeah, I was going to tell you to visit the north - the kineret, golan etc. Gorgeous.

It'd be a serious shame not to see the Old City of Jerusalem if you've never been - it's such a history and religion clusterfuck and it's also one of the best places to get a sense of the Arab/Jewish situation without actually going to the territories. I don't know how much time you have, but Israel is a pretty small country.

A couple of days in Jerusalem for sure. Was considering going to Petra too, but can't be stuffed. Only there for 2 weeks, and have to see family too...

i hate you.

Tel Aviv definitely has a small venue music scene but it's not something I've explored. I do know a guy who did a series of solo shows in Israel but I'm not really in touch with him. I can try to find out the record store for you. I'm sure there's a guidebook that could give you better information than I could, and even my wife hasn't lived there in almost seven years.

The weather should be extremely pleasant this time of year - probably like 70s/80s.

I fly in April 20th.

Hmm, I wonder if we could visit Petra now that my wife has a US passport?

I second going to Jerusalem... it is crazy, but in a manageable way.

Hurting, can Israeli passport holders not go to Jordan?

On funny passports... I was talking to a Lebanese Christian guy about how many Christian folk from there get Vatican City passports so they can go and visit Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Jerusalem. But this is problematic in so many ways, as I can visualise the questions in Ben Gurion: "So where in the Vatican City do you live?"

ah ok, according to Wikipedia:

Countries that do not accept Israeli passports
Legend: Israel Countries that reject passports from Israel Countries that reject passports from Israel and any other passport which contain Israeli stamps or visas
Legend: Israel Countries that reject passports from Israel Countries that reject passports from Israel and any other passport which contain Israeli stamps or visas

* Algeria [5]
* Bangladesh [6]
* Brunei [7]
* Djibouti [8]
* Iran [9]
* Kuwait [10]
* Lebanon[7] [11]
* Libya [12]
* Malaysia (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Internal Security). [13]
* Pakistan [14]
* Saudi Arabia [15]
* Sudan [16]
* Somalia[citation needed]
* Syria[8] [17]
* United Arab Emirates [18]
* Yemen[9] [19]

Countries that do not accept passports which contain Israeli stamps or visas

* Bahrain [12]
* Iran
* Kuwait [13]
* Lebanon[7]
* Libya [14]
* Qatar [15]
* Saudi Arabia [16]
* Sudan [17]
* Syria[8]
* Yemen [18]

The countries listed above will not allow entries to people with evidence of visits to Israel or used or unused Israeli visas in their passports. Israeli border guards would once stamp a bit of paper instead of the passport in order to help visitors overcome these problems.

Some countries are aware of the exit stamps placed in passports by Egypt and Jordan at their land borders with Israel and will treat these stamps as a proof of visit to Israel and may block entry based on the presence of these stamps. For example, a traveller may be denied entry to certain countries because of the presence of an Egyptian exit stamp indicating the person left Egypt at Taba, at the Israeli border. Also, a traveller attempting to enter Syria from Jordan by land, and whose passport does not indicate how the traveller arrived in Jordan, might be denied entry by Syrian authorities.

Some Arab countries do allow entry with Israeli passport stamps, e.g. Egypt, Jordan, Oman and the United Arab Emirates [19].

A little confusing, but sounds like we can still visit Petra one day.

ah ok, I get the land visit thing now. Sounds like there would be no problem at all visiting Jordan.

Yeah, we were told the reverse (sort of), that having Jordanian stamps would automatically be assumed as evidence of covert visits to Israel and that was AN BAD THING so if you're coming from Israel already I can't see how it's an issue. The Alenby Bridge is probably the best border point, I think.

Petra in one day is pretty rushed though, even without travel factored in.

It might be worth using the Israeli passport to go to Petra, so that your wife would have a spare passport ahould she ever want to... VISIT SYRIA. Dunn Dunnn Dunnnnn!

did i ever tell my story about being denied entry to the dome of the rock??

I am imagining you showing up dressed like a member of ARE Weapons, being refused entry, and then indignantly saying "what's the problem, man?"

long story short is that we tried to get in and they said we couldn't because we were obviously americans. my dad pulled this big indignant "what?!? but we're fellow moslems?!?!" act, which was total BS because we're actually baha'is.

they demanded to see our passports, took one look at our IDs, noticed our iranian names, and said "no shi'ite". swear to god. dude said "no shi'ite" and that was it.

no shee-it

http://jaredran.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/senatordavis.jpg

I was hoping it would be because you were wearing one of those "Don't worry America, Israel is right behind you!" t-shirts.

So I'm off to Tel Aviv tomorrow. Maybe folks can give ME some tips.

So I'm off to Tel Aviv tomorrow. Maybe folks can give ME some tips.

Well, if you go to the big gay bookstore in tel aviv, don't go wandering past the curtains unless you're looking for the sex dungeon.

It might be worth using the Israeli passport to go to Petra, so that your wife would have a spare passport ahould she ever want to... VISIT SYRIA.

ha! im actually in SYRIA now! in Damascus, then to Palmyra and Aleppo. my second time here. they now have internet, pepsi, and a KFC!

I go to Israel later this month. With MY MOM.

Couple of days in Jerusalem, two nights in Ein Gedi (Dead Sea), couple of nights in Rosh Pina (Galilee), couple of nights in Tel Aviv. Will have rental car after Jerusalem. Suggestions?

We're flying Turkish Airlines through Istanbul. On the way out we have like a seven hour layover or something, ugh.

I'm taking my decidedly Islamic-sounding surname to Tel Aviv on Monday. Looking forward to airport security.

I'm on the lookout for some good places to eat, though, so if anyone has suggestions, i'd be grateful.

They may ask you a shitton of questions. They ask everyone a ton of questions, non-(Jewish)Israelis a metric ton of questions, and people who seem like they could be arab and/or muslim a shitton of questions. At the same time it's not like they don't have lots of muslims coming through every day so I wouldn't worry too much.

I mean I remember they asked me where I was staying, who I was staying with, how long, why, was I Jewish, what did I know about Jewish holidays, etc. I realized later that in spite of the racist tinge of this, the point wasn't necessarily to favor me for being Jewish, but to see if I would slip up or act suspicious. If I say I'm Jewish but then I don't know anything about Judaism, they think maybe I'm faking a story or identity. It's not completely batshit, as intrusive as it seems.

That's true. A colleague said that the whole process is an interesting experience in itself. She got strip-searched though.

I'm resigned to it taking a while but i guess a good attitude goes a long way with the guards. I'm going for business so hopefully i'll be able to demonstrate i'm there for legit reasons without too much trouble.