Kratom, the legal opiate alternative (and other legal highs discussion, I guess).

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Since getting some Vicodin recently (a measley 16 pills), I have become addicted to the shit.

Wanting to make a bad thing worse, I decided I should feed this new burgeoning addiction with more Vicodin, so I went online to look for some. I remember it used to be legal to get up to 3 bottles or something, or so I thought.

Well, my plans to become a junkie were dashed all to hell when the first thing Google turned up was an FDA/NEC website making the law explicit. It is illegal to obtain prescription drugs online after filling out a survey. No ifs and or butts.

Which is bullshit, if you ask me!

But, I found information about something called KRATOM that looks promising. It's indigenous to Thailand where people use it as an cheap alternative to opium. And Thailand is about the only place in the world where it is illegal, too, which makes me think it must be pretty good shit that is just not scheduled yet in most countries.

So I think it would be a pretty good alternative to booze when I'm feeling stressed. Just makes some Kratom tea and listen to Spacemen 3 (or something).

THREE PART QUESTION:

1. Anyone ever tried Kratom?

2. Is it legal to buy those opium plants? Can't be right? They sell them at those legal high .com places. Probably a bad idea to get hooked on the real deal, anyway.

3. Any other legal opiate alternatives?

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I've tried salvia once. Shit will blow your head off...short-ish (20 min) high that is unlike anything I've ever done (only had pot, mushrooms and coke, though). And that was with a very small dosage. WAS legal at the time, unsure of its current status.


http://www.sagewisdom.org

giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

From the above website:

"The inebriation, at low doses, can facilitate aesthetic and sensual appreciation. However, the experience is not marijuana-like, and salvia is not a marijuana substitute. At somewhat higher doses, visionary trances occur. The lowest level visions consist mainly of closed-eye imagery somewhat similar to the hypnagogic phenomena that many people experience when falling asleep. These tend to be two dimensional faint images. The term "eye candy" is an appropriate description of the interesting closed eye visuals that are not confused with reality. At this level communication with others is still easy and one can move about although clumsiness will occur. With a higher dose vivid visual images occur even with eyes open, and with eyes closed one may completely enter the visionary world, and it will seem quite real, but upon opening ones eyes one will reestablish contact with ones surroundings. Speech patterns may be interfered with and communication is difficult. At still higher doses, one remains conscious but completely enters an inner realm and loses all contact with ones actual surroundings. Some people may move around in this deep trance state and for this reason a sitter is required for anyone seeking to explore such deep levels. With very high dosage a brief period of unconsciousness or at least the inability to subsequently remember the experience will occur. It is useful to have a scale to describe salvia experiences."

The bit in italics (mine) is pretty OTM. I basically fell out of my brain for about 20 min. I thought (and would have SWORN) that it all only lasted a minute or so. I'm glad I had a spotter.

giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Giboyeux, what kind of shit did you see? I always like Salvia stories, but they sound really intense. That's why I spent $25 on some Salvia, but I opted for the weaker stuff and apparently that is just shit. I threw it away after smoking enough to kill me and getting nothing off it.

I'm sort of done with hallucinogens, especially the legal kind that make you sick or freak you out, but I'd love to hear your story.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Why the rush to become a junkie? It's a slow, miserable path to death.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:22 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I was being facetious. I suppose nobody thinks they'll become a junkie and then they do, but uh. You're right, I probably like this too much already. I guess the reason is because I don't know any junkies and I'm too much of a pussy to buy drugs off the street, so the concept of me really becoming a junkie seems farfetched. I just imagine at the worst being like a friend of mind who 2 years ago had bought Vicodin through the internet for about a year and was really bummed he couldn't get it anymore. He wanted it, but he wasn't freaking out like Jack Osbourne or anything. Besides, now I'm looking into Kratom, which isn't really an opiate, but it bonds to opiate receptors in the brain and feels good. It's a weird in-between plant: a stimulant at low doses, opiate-like at larger doses with mild closed-eye visuals. It just sounds pleasant. Something to do instead of drink or smoke pot.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Orbit's right. Pharmaceuticals and opiates are suck, as far as I'm concerned. Pot and his buddies are losing their luster for me as well. That being said: I had an 'eye candy' experience. Which is to say that I saw stuff when my eyes were closed. What was it? No idea. Geometric shit. The closest comparison I can make is what happens if you were to, say, close your eyes and then push your knee gently into your eye socket (serious. I did this as a kid, for some reason). Only times a billion. No freak out, no sickness. Also, fwiw, I was using the super-salvia stuff; the "enriched" kind.

(xpost gotcha)

giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Ah yes. The kind of visuals that make reality look cracked in perfect symmetry into total abstraction.

There was one funny Salvia story I read about this guy who ssobered up, his friends told him that he kept smashing his head into things and they had to stop him from hurting himself. He was banging his head into the ground and into the wall.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:33 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Somehow with my fucking shitass computer, a whole segment of my last post got deleted.

Ever happen to you with Firefox? Can't select shit with this browser! I always end up deleting something I haven't even selected.

The point of the story was that the guy was trying to follow these aliens that had unzipped reality and stepped into his world. So, he was trying to follow them and he was smashing his head into the wall and the ground.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I might have asked this before but is there a difference btwn Vicodin and Panadiene/Panadiene Forte? Is vicodin just codiene IOW, or some other codienelike opiate thats stronger?

Curious cos you can buy codneine meds over the counter at chemists here, much to my stupid addiction's chagrin (dont ask).

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Trayce, you're not in USA are you?

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Trayce, it's like codeine, but it's not. I like codeine, too, but Vicodin feels better. Both have the pleasant itchy sensation and make being half-asleep the greatest thing in the world.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm in Aus. Codiene's easily available here.

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Panadeine: Each tablet contains 500mg of paracetemol (acetaminophen 500mg) and 8mg of codeine.

Too much acetaminophen, too little codeine. Bad for your liver!

Come to think of it, this Vicodin has Ibuprofen in it. I'm not sure how much, but I'm sure it's a lot. It's probably hurting my poor liver. I will stop and save the rest for special occasions.

That's why I need some Kratom!

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Trayce, Vicodin in the brand name for a combination of acetaminophen (Tylenol) and hydrocodone (a weaker derivative of codeine).

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I can get tabs with 10mg codiene on no scrip here. But yeah, the paracetamol is the kicker. My liver is not in the best of shape after years of lowlevel constant abuse of the shit. Its deceptively addictive in its way.

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

xpost oh, ok so vicodin is weaker than panadiene? If thats so why do people make such a fuss over rock stars etc using it?

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

But, it's stronger than codeine, isnt' it? Sure seems it. I had codeine when my wisdom teeth were pulled and it seems like I had to take more to get high and never got sick. With Vicodin, one or two pills is fine, 3 gets me sick.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Because it's on the same Federal Schedule as codeine, and not considered weaker legally. It is Schedule II, a controlled narcotic.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Sick like "oh shit, my chest is too heavy to breathe and my heart feels funny," not nauseous. To me, that means its a pretty powerful opiate.

Stoner Guy, Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:58 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Whether stronger or not, the point is hydrocodone (Vicodin) gives a more enjoyable high than codeine. I've found hydrocodone > dihydrocodeine phosphate > tramadol (Ultram) > codeine.

Stoner Guy, if you're going to do it, there is a simple junior-high chemistry way to separate the acetaminophen or ibuprofen from the opiate, which will help save your liver. Look for a "codeine FAQ" around the web and usenet, and you should be able to find it.

I've been addicted to these and kicking sucks. Diarrhea for 2-3 weeks, want to sleep all the time, limbs feel heavy, and just a general BAD feeling all the time (especially mornings), feels bad in a similar indescribable way as the high feels good.

No idea what kratom is.

L.O., Monday, 20 June 2005 02:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, "stronger" chemically is definitely not better. I prefer vicodin to morphine sulfate, which is a triplicate! (Sched I)

Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 20 June 2005 02:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I've never tried to take vicodin "recreationally" but when I've taken it for pain it hasn't really had any effect on me outside of pain relief. Nothing that would make me want to take it for funsies anyway. But I'm pretty boring, pharmaceutically...

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 20 June 2005 02:29 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Oh I have a very legit reason to be taking painkillers. Bone tumor, subsequent reconstruction and arthritis.

Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 20 June 2005 02:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

painkillers w/ pain /= painkillers w/o pain

/////, Monday, 20 June 2005 02:33 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Most people, most of the time, don't really feel the high on the recommended dose. When I first started taking it for pain relief, I only felt it rarely. Like alcohol or most drugs, it depends on whether you have an empty stomach, your mindset, etc. Often you have to go above the recommended dose, therefore the need to save your liver by extracting that overdose of Tylenol you're getting along with it.

L.O., Monday, 20 June 2005 02:39 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

vicodin/hydrocodone is in fact stronger than codeine - it's a more effective painkiller, requires a smaller dose to be effective, and has a more desirable high (if, of course, that's what you're looking for). acetaminophen can be removed via a cold water extraction, as others have noted. hurting your liver is no good. (neither is addiction, for that matter)

kratom, from most of the reports i've read, is not really all that enjoyable. or rather more just really underwhelming.


blah blah i took a lot of drugs, Monday, 20 June 2005 13:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm anti-prohibition for the most part but if ANYTHING should be regulated Salvia belongs on the list, not that it has no therapeutic use. First time I took it it yanked me from reality within seconds and I could have done absolutely anything in the 5? 10? 15? minutes it had me. It laughed at me, talked to me, tormented me, sent me to some amazing inescapable hell and it felt so solitary and alien and intense that I actually forgot about this world and my life in it. 10x salvia: TWO HITS. That said, I disrespected it and it disrespected me so no hard feelings. I've since tried the weaker version which did hardly anything other than helping me remember what the first time was like, for people who it doesn't affect for some reason I will say that it's really an all or nothing experience, either you 'break on through' or you get what amounts to a nicotine buzz, but when you break through, you'll know.

tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 20 June 2005 17:09 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

how did you take salvia?

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 20 June 2005 17:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

nutmeg is hallucenogenic. i think you need like a tablespoon to do it though.

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 20 June 2005 17:27 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

kratom, from most of the reports i've read, is not really all that enjoyable. or rather more just really underwhelming.

Then you haven't read these:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Kratom_General.shtml

Stoner Guy, Monday, 20 June 2005 17:40 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

aaron - I put it in my pipe and smoked it.

tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 20 June 2005 19:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

leaves or seeds?

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 20 June 2005 19:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

First time I took it it yanked me from reality within seconds and I could have done absolutely anything in the 5? 10? 15? minutes it had me. It laughed at me, talked to me, tormented me, sent me to some amazing inescapable hell and it felt so solitary and alien and intense that I actually forgot about this world and my life in it. 10x salvia: TWO HITS.

OTM. It can't even fairly be described as disorienting: it's unreal in the most literal sense of the word. I smoked it, too: 3-4 hits of 6x. At one point I thought I had spikes coming out of my back.

giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 20 June 2005 19:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

FWIW, in my stupid youth I had two mildly interesting run-ins with nutmeg at a hallucinogenic level.

First time I tried it I swallowed perhaps two tablespoons, stirred into water. Aside from a bitter taste and a little wooziness I thought, "Eh, that's nothing," and eventually went to bed. And then woke up several hours later to find myself in the midst of a quite respectable trails-seeing and intensely visual trip. Like a mild acid experience.

So the second time I thought I'd plan better and ingest the nutmeg earlier in the day, so that it would peak in the evening for maximum fun. To get round the trouble of having to drink a lot of nutmeggy water, I made several little packets with rice paper then swallowed them. I found that it caused pretty serious drowsiness for a few hours, then moderately interesting visual phenomena and a feeling of "yep, I'm definitely altered."

Wouldn't do it again, though. Nowadays I will either get real drugs or try to content myself with good ol' quotidian reality.

The Mad Puffin, Monday, 20 June 2005 19:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

six months pass...
Has anyone tried Orange Xtras? They were recommended to me by a friend who tried them on New Years Eve. She doesn't normally bother with legal highs, prefering the normal illegal ones we know and love, but was sufficiently impressed with these, likening it to a E/trippy experience.

They are a blend of Sida Cordifolia extract, kola nut extract, Argyria nervosa and Piperine. A brief bit of research on t'internet tells me the first two are stimulants, the third is a mild hallucinagen, and the third alters the bodies ability to metabolise drugs.

So, how good are they?

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:17 (twelve years ago) Permalink

er, the *fortuh* alters the bodies ability to metabolise drugs.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:17 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Arrgh, the FOURTH

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I've tried salvia once

I misread this as saliva. *sigh*

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 11:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Where do you buy these Orange Xtras from? "Head" shops in Camden?

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 4 January 2006 16:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

That kind of "place", one would imagine.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 10:19 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Is "Head shop" the correct term in Britain, do you know? I know that's what they're called in America, but here everybody I know just says "those dodgy shops what sells mushrooms and that".

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 10:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I think mots people understand the term, but it seems a bit too earnest for regular UK use. "hippy/crusty/paraphenalia shop" would usually suffice. It's a shame mushrooms are no longer available though (even though I've never bought any in one of those shops, I like picking them for free myself)

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 5 January 2006 15:15 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Was just wondering if any Aussies out there know if red rockets/orange Xtras are legal in Australia as I've been trying to find a local website that sells em but haven't had any luck.

Mary Loo, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:27 (twelve years ago) Permalink

To address the original thread topic: I've smoked Kratom a few times as it was given to me by a friend. It's an interesting thing, quite dissimilar to Marijuana. The effects are subtle, it just changes your mood and perception of things that little bit. One negative I found was that the next morning I would wake up with sore cheeks like I'd been chewing on them all night. Not really worth bothering with, to be honest.

Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:09 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I smoked a painfully strong bowl of salvia a couple years ago. The guy who grew it made a tincture and then soaked the weed in it. I was so cavalier: "Whatever, herbal shit... hand it over," and a minute later I was floating in a stormy sea of marching black and yellow folded paper napkins stretching as far as the eye could see.

It only lasted a minute or two but I wasn't myself again for a few hours.

andy --, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
Is it really that easy to extract the paracetamol from Paramol? I read you just dissolve the tablets in water and filter through coffee filters.

I know it's not big and clever but I am as curious as my cat and wouldn't mind trying it sometime (dihydrocodeine, that is).

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:29 (twelve years ago) Permalink

[spam]

Stocks, Monday, 1 May 2006 02:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Oh jesus, sorry about this.

These spambots are really on the ball!

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

lol

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I feel slightly better now I've clicked on a few more threads and they all have the same spam on them. I thought I'd invoked some kind of spamming demon by mentioning legal drugs!

This is all inspired by being completely unable to sleep despite consuming (for me) a ridiculous amount of booze. I ran out of pot yesterday and while I don't usually have any withdrawal symptoms apart from some hot/cold flushes this time I have become immune to booze and tiredness. It's very annoying. It might have something to do with consuming a few pints of green tea at the local Chinese restaurant earlier this evening though. Does green tea have caffeine in it?

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I have no idea. Sorry I can't be of any help to you.
And yeah theres shitloads of spam on ILX just now. Some of the same threads keep getting rehit. I'm fed up posting it all on the Mod Req(even a thread there got hit!)

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:44 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Jim's watching it all at the moment tho.

But yeah it is getting mental - look at the admin logs.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

You might have some advice on this subject actually Trayce...

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Monday, 1 May 2006 03:01 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Haha fuck, is my habit that widely known then!? =)

Tablets + cold water, let it sit til it all settles, pour off the liquid, that has the codiene in it. I think.

Look for codiene cold water extraction. I've never tried it mself.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 1 May 2006 04:46 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Also try not to use the tabs wot also have caffiene in them (as I understand most in the UK do? All the ones I bought over there did). I dont imagine you'll have as much luck with the extraction with caffiene in it.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 1 May 2006 04:47 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Oh duh, I mentioned it upthread anyway *slaps self*

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 1 May 2006 04:56 (twelve years ago) Permalink

salvia update:
heard this on NPR last month, story on Salvia which at least one U.S. state wants to ban now because of a kid that killed himself. Mostly reactionary stuff but in the description of salvia's effects, they said some users immediately forget they have taken a drug, which I now remember as being the headfuckiest part of the initial rush.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5290545

tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 1 May 2006 17:42 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

Just ordered some Kratom. What doses have folks here tried?

libcrypt, Sunday, 29 July 2007 19:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

The kratom I got really wasn't that good, and it was far too expensive for the amount of high.

libcrypt, Monday, 3 September 2007 18:02 (eleven years ago) Permalink

eight years pass...

Not legal for much longer...

http://gizmodo.com/the-dea-now-thinks-kratom-is-as-dangerous-as-heroin-1785953337

JoeStork, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 18:49 (two years ago) Permalink

I've been using it for 3 months. I was trying to get off suboxone, and heard that kratom helps with withdrawals, and found that to be true. I've now been off suboxone for 2 months. However I continue to use kratom daily (one dose a day, when I wake up) because it's a pretty good mood enhancer, although it only lasts 1.5 hrs or so.

pinkhushpuppies (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:06 (two years ago) Permalink

It's about 5% as strong as heroin, even at max dosage, and withdrawals are negligible

pinkhushpuppies (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:08 (two years ago) Permalink

Friend just gave me a jar of this and a jar of kava that he won in a headshop raffle.

Kava last night at the recommended dosage didn't do shit. Kratom tonight, maybe.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:11 (two years ago) Permalink

If the DEA schedules it, that will be hilarious, but I won't seek it (or a substitute) out. It's that benign. It's nice, and super cheap ($2 dose) if you're buying off the internet. Xp

Ha I was just about to describe kratom as "what you were hoping kava would do". If you want any effects from kratom you need to do about 10g.

pinkhushpuppies (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:15 (two years ago) Permalink

I didn't find kratom withdrawals negligible at all, but then I've nothing in the same category to compare it to and was using it heavily for a long time. It made me incredibly sick and green-skinned in the end and I couldn't digest anything, but I'm not against it and if people can utilise it to transition from harder things or to combat depressive moods in the short term, then it's way better than a lot of alternatives. If my favourite provider hadn't relocated to Canada then I definitely would have fallen back into the ritual again by now. Obviously comparisons to heroin are ridiculous, and the kratom in that picture is going to have about as much effect as a strong cup of tea. I hope the people who need it can still find loopholes to whatever laws they impose.

tangenttangent, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:22 (two years ago) Permalink

xp

Use a bit of lemon or lime juice as a potentiator with your kratom if you're having it as a tea (makes it taste better too if you're unaccustomed), and space out drinking it with plain water, which should minimise any minor nausea. If you do feel sick, just lie down for ten minutes and it'll pass. Besides that, should all be lovely and warm. Haha, I like the idea of a 'headshop raffle'.

tangenttangent, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:27 (two years ago) Permalink

People's experiences with it vary so drastically. Most use it for energy/focus at low (3-5g) dosages, but I don't notice anything. At 10g I get a feeling that mimics hydrocodone at ~10mg.

I did run out for a week after using for a month and the wd's were so mild I wasn't sure if it wasn't all in my head.

pinkhushpuppies (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:35 (two years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I take it off and on in 2-3g doses and get a nice mild stimulant/opiate effect, often helps get rid of my frequent headaches. Never taken anything close to 10g but I have no prior opiate tolerance.

JoeStork, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 20:03 (two years ago) Permalink

I found that at higher doses of a decent powder (super green indo springs to mind) or a strong extract I was prone to getting incredibly irritable, which only compounded my need for it. In the end I was fully dependent on it for relaxation and diminished anxiety (though it gave me death fear something crazy) and coming fully off it after about three years, everything was painful and I had to drink often to get through it. I still have a deep love for it though, even if it skewed my receptiveness to all films for a while and turned my essays into raving monologues.

tangenttangent, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 20:05 (two years ago) Permalink

I had a weird thing happen a couple weeks ago where I took it near the end of a massively stressful day just to try to relax. It improved my mood but I woke up the next day with a godawful hangover, pain every time I moved my head, and it lasted through the next morning. I hadn't had any alcohol, though dehydration was probably a factor. It's a weird drug.

JoeStork, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 21:00 (two years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
one year passes...

FDA calling it kratom an opioid now, ban sure to follow soon?

louise ck (milo z), Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:45 (eight months ago) Permalink

Never managed to take it even in small doses without (mild) stomach cramping.

louise ck (milo z), Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

https://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbreaksEmergencies/Outbreaks/ucm597265.htm

Salmonella outbreak.

how's life, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 22:47 (eight months ago) Permalink

tried kratom for the fuck of it. first time: got nauseated and it sucked. second time, got so super nauseated and could not swallow my spit. it was insane and scary and the only reason i didn't completely flip the fuck out was that i could still swallow water from a cup

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 22:57 (eight months ago) Permalink

Were you just drinking powder and water or taking it in capsules? It does taste fucking terrible. Also how much did you take? I’ve never gone over 3g at once.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 21 February 2018 00:09 (eight months ago) Permalink

I’m still grateful to kratom for getting me through plane flights without a massive headache.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 21 February 2018 00:10 (eight months ago) Permalink

drinking the powder and just eyeballing the doses. so probably mostly my fault for not being smart about it

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 21 February 2018 00:31 (eight months ago) Permalink

I guess my rec would be to take around four 00 capsules on an empty-ish stomach and see how it goes. That is if you’re a bad enough dude to handle a little salmonella.

But who knows, it might just make you feel gross and I don’t know if I should encourage anyone to start taking something that’s likely to get banned real soon.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 21 February 2018 01:10 (eight months ago) Permalink


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