closet conservatives on ilx

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j'accuse j blount, nrq

― Emile Zola, Saturday, 13 August 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

GERMINAL! GERMINAL!

― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 13 August 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

I often think of myself as a conservative. I wish to see the U.S. conserve its traditions of democracy, civil rights, individual dignity, tolerance and freedom in the face of the continued onslaught of greed, plutocracy, obscurantism, racism and chauvinism.

― M. White (Miguelito), Saturday, 13 August 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

There's a point on the political spectrum where libertarians from both the right and left wing are closer in view to each other than they are to some other members of their own party.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Saturday, 13 August 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

Wow, that's so counterintuitive it must be right! Or not.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 13 August 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

There's a point on the political spectrum where libertarians from both the right and left wing are closer in view to each other than they are to some other members of their own party.

For years I tried to make this notion work sans cognitive dissonance. Nowadays, I'm afraid I see this point on the political spectrum as the metaphoric equivalent to the commons area in Federal Prison where Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber are said to have stopped to chat.

― M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 13 August 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

j'accuse Main Tracer aussi

― Emile Zola, Saturday, 13 August 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

When NRQ first appeared here I thought we could make common cause—he's certainly a political animal, excited by the political threads—but he now feels perplexingly rightish to me. But not to the right of the Blairites. Blount I think has a secret history of conservatism and has subsequently felt ashamed of it. Some of the Jewish posters naturally make rightish noises when you say stuff about Israel. I don't think Tracer is rightish at all, though. He's "progressive"!

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 13 August 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

in an earlier time and place -- say, 1965 or 1975 -- it is quite possible that i could've been a republican. albeit a "rockefeller republican" -- socially liberal, fiscally moderate-to-conservative -- which was a rather common stance in the northeastern states. that republican party is long-gone, however.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 13 August 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

Ridicule is nothing to be scared of...if you're conservative you should be out and proud on ILE

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Saturday, 13 August 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

hmm im not a conservative, but i'd say im to the right of a lot of ILX (or at the very least i feel that my liberalness is very shakey--or is that what being a liberal means?)

on the other hand, i tend to think of extreme liberals as pretty conservative. (momus is a good example)

― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 13 August 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Some of the Jewish posters naturally make rightish noises when you say stuff about Israel.

even for an avowed racist like yourself, this is rather shocking, congratulations

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Saturday, 13 August 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

What happened to that "militia" guy? I liked him. sorry, I forgot his name.

― whiteout (bobnope), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

This thread can only end in backbiting and recriminations.. which is about as left as it gets ca. a certain point in the chronology of US progressive politics i.e. 1969 or so

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

Hello There!

Closet Communists here

― The Lurkers, Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

A pox on the ridiculous notion of a one-dimensional political "spectrum"!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

I am an avowed moderate - some of my positions are probably to the right of ILM, others to the left. But this is priceless:

Some of the Jewish posters naturally make rightish noises when you say stuff about Israel.

So that's that. If you're not sure that the Gaza pullout will solve anything because Hamas has gone on the record saying they'll continue their terrorism anyway, that's not just having a differing opinion, that's "rightish." End of argument, then.

― mike a, Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

ILE in having head up its ass shockah!

― Ian John50n (orion), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

Noise Dude in "stoned again" shockah!

― ILX, Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

i'm pretty far to the left, but i often find myself playing quasi-conservative devil's advocate when i'm having arguments with left-wing friends. that could mean i'm a closet conservative, but it's more likely i'm just a contrarian who hates to hear everyone agreeing with each other all the time.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

and yeah that momus remark ranks among the 5 stupidest things i've ever seen on ile!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 13 August 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

it's the word 'naturally' that does it

― Sym Sym (sym), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

I keep my conservatism in the closet, too. It is bound and gagged, and from time to time I open the door and give it a good kick, just to let it know who's the boss.

― Aimless (Aimless), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

I'd also call myself a moderate. Ever slightly to the right of center. Having said that, I would've voted for Kerry...so I guess I consider myself a centrist - pragmatist. And I've never been too closeted about it. Hell, in some circles / situations I'm in, it's the leftists who never reveal themselves...

― paulhw (paulhw), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

That's what I love about you, Aimless.

Love in a manly way.

― Leeeeeeee (Leee), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

Momus is talking about bnw and Casuistry, right?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

Um...are you sure about that second one?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

ok, OUT I COME

haha no. i would say that, in the past year or so, there have been several ideas held by right wingers currently, that i would agree with. or, more to the point, certain of the bedrock assumptions abt the left's critique (of foreign policy in partic) i am increasingly unconvinced by (i don't think terrorism is sourced in oppression, that's the biggie. stated differently, i try not to reflexively assume that one's position on a spectrum of power figures as an inverse of your ethical standing.) beyond that i'm the new dealer i always was.

― geoff (gcannon), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

local twin cities ilxors also note: i was almost totally unsympathetic to the U's shutdown of its General College, and it took a lot of careful thinking to figure out why that was my first reaction.

― geoff (gcannon), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

and re: the first post. "conservative" != "asshole" (j/k fellas)

― geoff (gcannon), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

What about those of us who think Israel should never have been created?

― well?, Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

you're useless

― RJG (RJG), Saturday, 13 August 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

What about those of us who think Israel should never have been created?

It doesn't follow, does it, that thinking Israel should never have been created means you think Israel should now cease to be?

― M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 13 August 2005 23:13 (twenty years ago)

Very, very few Jews get named "Chris". It's just not kosher.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 14 August 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

Yet I always get put on the mailing lists for Hillel stuff when I enter a new campus. (My last name has "berg" for a suffix, which I assume is the reason.)

― Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 14 August 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

Haha woops I meant... shit, who did I mean again??! WHO ARE YOU, COME OUT AND BE RIDICULED.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 14 August 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

Old-school Republican here, which makes me a radical in these times.

― whiteout (bobnope), Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

i hate jews and blacks and women and chinks and fags and communists and disableds

― 78585876986, Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

THey all cum under fagits doe

― 3248632032, Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:05 (twenty years ago)

I generally describe myself as a labor leftist, but I do appreciate certain conservative ideas (depending on how you define conservative) - balanced budgets, mandatory national service (not neccesarily military), stip government down to it's most important functions (prioritizing this correctly is a major divergence from current rightist policiy, though) a few others along those lines.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

So 'loggedout' is a closet conservative, apparently. Seems to conflict with his/her sexual exploits, but then again that seems to be typical these days, right?

When was the last time "balanced budgets" and "fiscal responsibility" was a part of being a conservative? Not a rhetorical question, I get the feeling this aspect of conservatism ended before my lifetime but people still seem to cling to it.

― richardk (Richard K), Sunday, 14 August 2005 03:31 (twenty years ago)

i hate gay marriage and am v. religous.

― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 14 August 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

http://images.somethingawful.com/reviews/movies/druids/druids_27.jpg

― richardk (Richard K), Sunday, 14 August 2005 04:44 (twenty years ago)

under fagits doe

a deer? a female deer?

― kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Sunday, 14 August 2005 04:47 (twenty years ago)

It was stupid and racist of me to say "Some of the Jewish posters naturally make rightish noises when you say stuff about Israel"... why? Is it one of these "So true it's obvious, and therefore unnecessary to spell out" statements? Or is it one of these "Too inflammatory to just throw into a casual conversation about politics, no matter how key and central" statements? Or is it one of these "Lady, if you have to ask..." statements? Or how about "Essentialist", ie "How dare you assume that Israel is essentially a right wing country" or "How dare you assume that Jews have any connection with Israel"?

― Momus (Momus), Sunday, 14 August 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

it's the word 'naturally' that does it

And the word 'some' that undoes it.

― Momus (Momus), Sunday, 14 August 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

thats not actually true though, is it? the 'some' doesnt undo the 'naturally' at all. im not sure its obvious that the rightish noises came naturally? i think its a good idea to say who you mean, rather than grouping them together, when you only mean some of them, as some of the germany living people naturally do

― charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 14 August 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

"some" (read: all) jews have a pretty good reason to be touchy about israel.

― some stockholm cindy talking (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 August 2005 08:33 (twenty years ago)

those gol-durned women get so touchy about having the right to vote!

― some stockholm cindy talking (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 August 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

nah only some of them

― gem (trisk), Sunday, 14 August 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 132 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

protesting something that happened two years ago = greatest thing ever. hey LBJ! how many kids you kill 40-odd years ago!?

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)

protesting something that happened two years ago

This is just silly. US involvement in Iraq is an ongoing issue, not to mention a damned expensive one in blood and treasure. The question of whether the person who currently controls our Iraq policy has engaged in a knowing, purposeful and continuing campaign of deception in regard to that policy is (to coin a phrase) urgent and key.

― Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

course it's silly, and of course we were lied to, but you need better arguments than 'we invaded iraq for israel' and better solutions than 'pull out now'.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

of course we were lied to, but you need better arguments than 'we invaded iraq for israel'

exactly. as mentioned on the other thread(christ, parallel convos on the same board), trying to persuade supporters by chanting "Bush lied; thousands died" won't do shit. Of course politicians lie, these people think, they have to sometimes lie to us for our own good.

better solutions than 'pull out now'.

i agree, too. One of the fucked up things about this particular war is that they have fucked up so many options(e.g. pissing off world allies) as to changing the situation. Insurgencies/civil wars last for YEARS.

― kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

we need better than moore. the mendacity of the republicans and new labour and the media in the US requires something better than moore's shortcuts -- something like honesty. so, in 'F9/11', the weighting of the line 'we invaded the sovereign state of iraq' is all wrong. i don't think you can enter the debate without some honesty about what the probable consequences of pulling out are, just as three years ago the left needed to acknowledge what, by not invading (and i was against invading), we were affirming.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

So what then do you perceive to be the probable consequences of "pulling out"? And how do you know with any sort of certainty that the consequences of pulling out will be less favorable than the consequences of continuing the occupation?

(FWIW, I think just "pulling out" is a logistical impossibility at this stage, anyway. I think we shouldn't be increasing the size of our armed presence in Iraq.)

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

Well, it's pretty obvious what would happen if the U.S. pulled out right now. There'd be full-blown civil war that would make Lebanon look like a picnic, and then ultimately there'd be dismemberment of the country into spheres of interest, with Iran controlling the Shia south, Saudi or Syrian interests controlling the Sunni triangle etc etc. What we've got instead (a simmering insurgency, plenty violence and instability) is pretty bad but it's better than all-out civil war. I was viscerally opposed to the war, but it happened, and now its the U.S.'s responsibility to rebuild some of the civil/political/physical infrastructure they destroyed. Things are pretty fucked, but perhaps an all-out civil war can be avoided, and that requires the U.S. to stay put for at least the next couple of years I should think.

― JZ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

I am a closet conservative. Fuck an armoire.

― The Ghost of Eternal September (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:20 (twenty years ago)

The Walton Family?

I think I have an idea who John Ashcroft is. Can someone confirm, or say more about him?

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Things are pretty fucked, but perhaps an all-out civil war can be avoided, and that requires the U.S. to stay put for at least the next couple of years I should think.

Or, we stay a few more years, and then there is an all-out civil war, and then a nuclear Iran gets involved. Either way I think just pulling out or just hanging around for a few more years isn't a strategy. It's the absence of strategy.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/john-ashcroft/

Cor - it looks Ashcroft is the geezer for me after all.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

I am amused and apalled by the idea that the pinefox goes to rotten.com for his news.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

The Walton Family?

Walmart owners/heirs. I'm not sure how "fundamentalist" they are though.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

Cor - it looks Ashcroft is the geezer for me after all.

Bill Frist may actually be a better mention in an article though since Ashcroft is no longer a cabinet member and Frist is the Senate majority leader and '08 Presidential hopeful. Aside from being a fundamentalist christian, Frist is also a doctor who believes it is possible to transmit AIDS through tears and sweat. When he was in med school he apparently made a regular practice of adopting cats from the local shelter and experimenting on them.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

I am amused and apalled by the idea that the pinefox goes to rotten.com for his news

that's my kind of guy!

― whiteout (bobnope), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:58 (twenty years ago)

I just sent the article off, with Ashcroft in it!

Maybe I will get a chance to alter it to Frist later, or something.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

These the guys momus meant?
http://www.rjchq.org/News.asp?Formmode=Detail&ID=918

― M. V. (M.V.), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

I am amused and apalled by the idea that the pinefox goes to rotten.com for his news

dude, i keep tellin' ya; the library section on rotten.com has some great stuff.

Although the bio on Chyna is NSFW and a touch-too-graphic for the faint-of-tranny.

― kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

an immediate pullout only looks silly if you manage to delusionally believe that u.s. troops as they are acting *right now* do anything resembling good at all.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Although the bio on Chyna is NSFW and a touch-too-graphic for the faint-of-tranny.

Wow. The goggles, etc.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

gabbneb

― and what, Friday, 9 March 2007 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

my closets are extremely liberal, i'll have you know

― gabbneb, Friday, 9 March 2007 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently I'm a closet conservative because I despise Michael Moore.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 9 March 2007 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

I still stand by my original question.

― HI DERE, Friday, 9 March 2007 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

haha remember when Frist was a "presidential hopeful"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 9 March 2007 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

At least Reagan was competent.

JW on Friday, March 9, 2007

― and what, Friday, 9 March 2007 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

;)

― JW, Friday, 9 March 2007 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

"At least Reagan was competent."

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 9 March 2007 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

I'm amused that a posthaste pullout is commonly called the "left" position, given Pitchfork Pat.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 9 March 2007 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

There are people who don't hate Michael Moore?

― milo z, Friday, 9 March 2007 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

i don't really know him.

― strgn, Saturday, 10 March 2007 02:07 (nineteen years ago)

ronnie WAS more competent than dubya. i thought that that was common sense, not evidence of being a closet conservative.

― Eisbaer, Saturday, 10 March 2007 02:26 (nineteen years ago)

It's kind of brutal when an aging dude with Alzheimer's was better at your job than you are.

― HI DERE, Saturday, 10 March 2007 03:42 (nineteen years ago)

tis better to have thought and stopped than never to have thought at all

― lfam, Saturday, 10 March 2007 05:47 (nineteen years ago)

They just have different competencies. Reagan was competent as a spokesperson and figurehead while GWB is extremely competent at getting things done for his party. The problem is that the things the right wants to achieve -- defunding the federal government, dismantling any government function outside of military spending and corporate subsidies, etc. -- are easily mistaken for garden variety incompetence.

The real question is which of them is (was) more continent.

― walterkranz, Saturday, 10 March 2007 07:21 (nineteen years ago)

I'm reminded of Tip O'Neil's remark: in a constitutional monarchy, Reagan would have made a splendid king. But I wouldn't even go that far.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 10 March 2007 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

defunding the federal government, dismantling any government function outside of military spending and corporate subsidies, etc.

haha yeah all conservatives want to defund the federal government. its sad people actually believe that because its either 1) totally misguided or 2) way too big of a generalization

― artdamages, Saturday, 10 March 2007 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

mr statist democrat, meet mr statist replublican.

― artdamages, Saturday, 10 March 2007 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

Where did I mention conservatives?

― walterkranz, Saturday, 10 March 2007 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

The problem is that the things the right wants to achieve -- defunding the federal government, dismantling any government function outside of military spending and corporate subsidies, etc. -- are easily mistaken for garden variety incompetence.

i should have stuck w/saying "the right" tho

― artdamages, Saturday, 10 March 2007 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

according to my sources conservatives are on the right

― artdamages, Saturday, 10 March 2007 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

I feel so alienated by politics today. Some of what passes for conservativism on the internet makes me a "closet conservative"! Ranting and raving about "Muslims" or "people taking our rights away" and waving a gun around is NOT conservative behavior!

― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Don Nots (Mount Cleaners) (Mount Cleaners), Saturday, 21 January 2012 10:26 (fourteen years ago)

It's true, waving a gun around is just broad-spectrum American behavior ; )

― beachville, Saturday, 21 January 2012 11:21 (fourteen years ago)

I miss Barry Goldwater!

― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Don Nots (Mount Cleaners) (Mount Cleaners), Saturday, 21 January 2012 12:03 (fourteen years ago)

I miss Theodore Roosevelt.

― beachville, Saturday, 21 January 2012 13:47 (fourteen years ago)

(That's about as far as I'm willing to take it, tbh)

― beachville, Saturday, 21 January 2012 13:48 (fourteen years ago)

I have a lot of conservatives bound and gagged in my closet, and won't let them out until December 2012

― Neanderthal, Saturday, 21 January 2012 13:56 (fourteen years ago)

TR was a weird fellow -- a champion of physical ardor and believer in noblesse oblige rather than a true progressive, much less conservative. One of the great what-ifs of 20th century politics: if he'd lived to win the 1920 election (in which he would have been the GOP candidate and likely winner).

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 January 2012 14:15 (fourteen years ago)

woah this thread. thank god i did not participate when it was going on

― Mordy, Saturday, 21 January 2012 14:40 (fourteen years ago)

^^^ all Momus threads evah

― Neanderthal, Saturday, 21 January 2012 15:57 (fourteen years ago)

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