Wow, Clerks just doesn't hold up, does it?

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Don't get me wrong - I really enjoyed Dogma and Chasing Amy, but this is, as my girlfriend says, a college play that somebody filmed. We had to shut it off after the Chewlies Gum sequence.

Share your disappointment with former pop-culture touchstones that don't bear revisiting here!

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

mallrats is better than clerks, dogma and chasing amy.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

clerks was terrible the first time around! "college play" otm.

― ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:35 (twenty years ago)

although that bit with the porn shop listings is hilarious

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:35 (twenty years ago)

Wow, isn't this the 15th time we've had this thread?

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

the '90s has so much to answer for.

― ian quiche-lorraine (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

Or am I just conflating all the KEVIN SMITH SUX threads?

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

"college play" is what makes it great and the others not

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

well there is at least one more
Clerks: C or D?

xxpost

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

In 1995, everybody thought Ferris Bueller was a load of shit.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:37 (twenty years ago)

and yes xxpost
Defend the Indefensible: Kevin Smith
Kevin Smith and His Movies

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, blame society, not Kevin Smith - dude just made a movie; ain't his fault folks found it funny.

And which 1995 was this, Stevem?!?!?!?

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I've never subjected myself to Mallrats, but Clerks has always seemed his best film cuz its goals are within the maker's capabilities.

FUCK ANOTHER K.S. THREAD

Ferris Bueller was always a load of shit (judging by the first 5 mins).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I'd rather bitch about Kevin Smith's perpetually-late comic werks.

HI DOCTOR!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:39 (twenty years ago)

Wow, isn't this the 15th time we've had this thread?

Er, um, I was hoping to use Clerks as a jumping-off point to talk about things that are disappointing when you revisit them years later. I *loved* Clerks when I first saw it, but couldn't sit through it at all last night.

Or am I just conflating all the KEVIN SMITH SUX threads?

That isn't the point of this at all.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

Is it the art's fault of your fault?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Huh?

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

I know, I know - I was being a little bitchtit. My bad. And I totally empathize. I caught a bit of Clerks (on IFC, of course), following a doc about making Clerks, and the bits I caught didn't do it for me anymore. Oh sigh growing old &c.

3 to thread?

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

And Stevem stealing my thunda shocka!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:43 (twenty years ago)

In 1995, everybody thought Ferris Bueller was a load of shit.
-- Sociah T Azzahole (stevem7...), August 30th, 2005.

not in my front room!

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

yeah, wtf? nobody hates on Ferris Bueller, surely?

― g-kit (g-kit), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:45 (twenty years ago)

(except Dr Morbius)

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Many films you like at 17 are crap at 37.

Jack Nicholson once said that his feeling on seeing "Ferris" at its premiere was "These people are trying to kill me."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Jack Nicholson once beat on a car with a golf club.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

dry that one out, you could fertilize the lawn.

xpost

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

Jack Nicholson co-starred in Anger Management

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

As Good As It Gets just doesn't hold up, does it?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

In 1996 I showed Ferris Bueller to my then-girlfriend, as she'd never seen it. She thought it was a lot of fun - very much of its era, but funny and well-acted. I just picked it up on DVD a few months ago, and it's still a lot of fun.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

In 1995 everyone thought Wolf was a load of shit.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

and sorry but even Burton's first Batman was crap

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

i weep for the future

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

I liked Wolf. I am a sucker for werewolf movies where James Spader tries to mount Michelle Pfeiffer from behind. Sadly, this is the only movie where this happens.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

I've only seen Clerks once and that was about seven years ago so I can't really comment there. In my memory it seems okay though.

former pop-culture touchstones that don't bear revisiting here!

I can't think of many films akin to Clerks in terms of how they're presented as alt comedy to student audience, but I expect they all seem bad now, whereas the straight up pop stuff gets one free pass all the way!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

i think 'the breakfast club' holds up poorly. it's really depressing!

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

nah, Ally Sheedy still looks hott (until the end, when they RUIN HER).

― g-kit (g-kit), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

i never really liked Kevin Smith other than Mallrats and the biggest KS fans I know IRL are douchebags who spend most of their time patting themselves on the back for being white and owning a lot of comic books, so that hasn't helped.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

My main memory of Wolf is the fact that when we went to see it, me and my friends were the only people in the cinema.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

I saw Heathers three years ago and it was kind of annoying in a way. I couldn't help going 'oh come on, that would never happen!' more than you're probably supposed to, but the silly/serious clash of situations within it is interesting I guess.

Batman 1 is still my favourite Batman - I was under-age in the cinema at the time so that did add to the excitement a little.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen Wolf, is it better than Teen Wolf?

― Matt #2 (Matt #2), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

i thought the breakfast club was DEEP when I was in 6th grade, but now i'm all like "the simple minds cannot move me anymore" and really what they did to ally sheedy was like taking uber-hot, balls-out peak period Joan Jett and turning her into emasculated, mute meg white.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

I never liked The Breakfast Club, they were a load of jerks except for Ally Sheedy and then (as Gear mentions) she gets turned into this bland nobody.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:07 (twenty years ago)

I still like The Breakfast Club, but Pretty In Pink is terrible now. And yes, Ally Sheedy is way hotter as a proto-Gaz punkette.

And this doesn't have to be strictly a movie thread, by the way.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen Wolf, is it better than Teen Wolf?

In 1995 everyone thought 'Teen Wolf Too' was shit.

Like 2005.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

you guys are all GOTHS

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

all I really learned from the breakfast club was that if I join the wrestling team and borderline sexually assault a guy in the locker room, i'll get tossed into detention and meet a former goth chick who will give it up to me for no reason at all, aside from me whining about being pushed around by my dad.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

I haven't seen Wolf, is it better than Teen Wolf?

Nothing is better than Teen Wolf, except possibly Teen Wolf Too.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

Wasn't Eugene Levy the dad in the first Teen Wolf?

"An explanation is probably long overdue..."

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:18 (twenty years ago)

speaking of him, The Man looks like the worst film ever made.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Oh, that just looks so pitiful.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

Pretty In Pink holds up better then 16 Candles.

Heathers is even better now days because there is no way in hell that movie would get widely released. I'm not even sure the line "Did you eat a brain tumour for breakfast?" would make it.

― Rufus 3000 (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

Real Genius is rubbish nowadays

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

Pulp Fiction, I can't believe I didn't see through that at the time. What a smug load of shit.

― Matt #2 (Matt #2), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Heathers is even better now days because there is no way in hell that movie would get widely released. I'm not even sure the line "Did you eat a brain tumour for breakfast?" would make it.

OTM, nowadays, a movie like this couldn't even get pitched, because, as we all know, depicting teenage angst leads to mass homicide.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

Real Genius is rubbish nowadays

You're fired.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Mean Girls is about as far-out as a high school teen movie gets these days.

― Marxism Goes Better With Coke (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

"as we all know, depicting teenage angst leads to mass homicide."

mm, maybe that's why films like THIRTEEN and ELEPHANT and um MEAN GIRLS don't get made.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

The first 3 films Nicholson's name evokes are As Good As It Gets, Batman and Wolf. THAT is the ILE multiplex.

Let me know when Matthew Broderick makes his 5 Easy Pieces.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

i'm sort of tired of people using shitty films as a blank slate onto which they can project their own theories. studio pics ain't as good as they were 20 years ago. (apropos of no one on this thread...I think I'm having a bad flashback to a Ray Pride/New City Chicago review I just read)

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

no morbius, people were implying that Jack Nicholson shouldn't talk because he's made shitty films.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

Election vs. About Schmidt

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

to be fair Nicholson has made some okay films since Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Jack Nicholson was contemplating that John Hughes was utterly incapable of doing anything more ambitious than pandering to vain teenagers, not that he had never made a shitty film.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

"as we all know, depicting teenage angst leads to mass homicide."

mm, maybe that's why films like THIRTEEN and ELEPHANT and um MEAN GIRLS don't get made.

mm, maybe I was kidding, no?

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

i'm not sure if Nicholson has made a film in the past thirty years that didn't pander to some variant on the "vain audience"!

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

we're all vain bastards, really.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

Clerks was never good, so it's not that it didn't "hold up." The acting was nonexistent. It's as if they stuck a script in front of a bunch of people with photographic memory and then had them recite it back with the film rolling.

Also, Dogma was too long and too pretentious.

Chasing Amy was crap.

― I've been saying this all along, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

the problem with Kevin Smith is he's a guy who obviously thinks his target audience is stupid, so everything--his humor, thematic content, acting--is overly telegraphed, he just bangs you over the head with it. I've actually got little problem with him when you compare him with the truly worst films out there, i just think that the fact he's achieved some kind of status as a respected auteur is really funny.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

You're right about the beating over the head bit, but I don't think it's because KS thinks the audience is stupid. I think it's because KS is stupid and these ideas are brilliant and novel to him so he wants to make sure that he really gets his point across as a solid argument. He's afraid of coming off stupid and presenting a stupid argument and yet, he is stupid because he can't write a good script or direct a good movie.

― No Offense To Kevin Smith, But He Spent Too Much Time Alone, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

I don't think Nicholson is in much of a position to criticize, he did plenty of his own pandering to vain teenagers ("The Trip", for example), and is an actor with a pathetically limited range. Sure he's done some good stuff, but he's always playing basically *himself* (a smarmy, sly, self-absorbed asshole).

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

Nicholson's in as much a position to criticize as anyone. I was just thinking that anything he says (as w/ anything anyone says) shd be taken w/ a grain of salt, since it's hard for anyone to denounce anything w/out their position being compromised in some way, whether it be because of Wolf or As Good As It Gets or using a 9-iron on a BMW or whatever (pre-Shining greatness notwithstanding).

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

well i don't think that's true, it's just that he too often falls into that trap, these days at least. The Pledge is a good film that shows Nicholson working totally outside the usual "JACK!" stereotype. xpost

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

You're right about the beating over the head bit, but I don't think it's because KS thinks the audience is stupid. I think it's because KS is stupid

But surely if this is your view, you also think KS audience/fans are stupid as a consequence of laughing at the jokes and going 'awww' at the sentimental bits?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

I would sooner make Shakey's accusation of post-1984 de Niro.

While the success of Cuckoo's Nest spurred Jack to do "Jack" too often, he doesn't in the Sean Penn films, Mars Attacks!, Reds, The Border, to name a few.

pathetically limited range = ridiculous

KS can be funny in a lowbrow way. Sometimes. That's it.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

But surely if this is your view, you also think KS audience/fans are stupid as a consequence of laughing at the jokes and going 'awww' at the sentimental bits?

Surely. But, I don't think KS thinks they're stupid. He probably thinks anyone who likes his films is pretty smart.

― Silent But Violent Bob, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

mallrats is *shameful*. fckng awful it is in every way.

― piscesboy, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

B-b-but they talk about Star Wars and it's got Stan Lee in it! THIS MAKES IT GREAT. SNOOGENS, SNOOGENS!

― Generic Kevin Smith Fanboy (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Or so I've heard for the last ten fucking years.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

I like Kevin Smith movies. Mock me all you wish.

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

Dinky Bossetti, where are you now?

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Being from New Jersey and having gone to high school right down the street from where the majority of Chasing Amy was filmed (and knowing where the ice rink is, too, even though it's about forty-five minutes away) KS has kind of a special place in my heart, for better or worse. He's my one big reference point, at least, whenever anyone asks where I'm from.

― pr00de descending a staircase (pr00de), Tuesday, 30 August 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

i kind of wish everything i used to love would just become permanently inaccessable. it'd be a lot easier that way.

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

Clerks is great just because it's so dead on in its portrait of NJ. If you didn't have jersey inflicted on you when you were a teenager, I doubt it holds up as a watchable movie at all. In fact, I pretty much cringed all the way through it the last time I saw it (except for the awesome roof top roller hockey game, sooooo funny). There's not any particular character or story line that is close to what I grew up with, it's more the mood of the whole piece, feels like a chunk of my teenage years. But he needed more diners in there. (I know there are diner scenes galore in Chasing Amy, but I hate that movie on so many levels.)

― lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:09 (twenty years ago)

it does suck as much as jersey does, yes.

― strng hlkngtn (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

chasing amy and jersey girl are two of the worst films ever.

EVER.

― Will(iam), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

The best John Hughes movie is the one where Molly Ringwald gets knocked up. (maybe it was only produced or written by John Hughes, but it's still the best)

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:43 (twenty years ago)

"pandering to vain teenagers" => yawn. every film ever made "panders" to someone!

i caught ferris bueller again a few weeks ago and i thought it held up okay. it's definitely the least preachy john hughes film (except for that long scene near the end where they just sit around and act depressed about the future). but i kind of like the earnestness of the other films, it's certainly hard to imagine something like the breakfast club being made today.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 05:41 (twenty years ago)

I'd just like to point out that the dad in Teen Wolf is not Eugene Levy, but is in fact some fat guy.

― The Yellow Kid, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

in fact, that's how he's listed in the credits.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 06:40 (twenty years ago)

IMDb Name Search

A search for "some fat guy" found the following results:

Names (Approx Matches) (Displaying 3 Results)

Guy-Manuel De Homem-Christo (Producer, Interstella 5555: The 5tory of the 5ecret 5tar 5ystem (2003))
Guy Famechon (Cinematographer, Sarraounia (1986))
Guy Atwood-Jones (Production Designer, Slave of Pleasure (1978))

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

I remembered this thread today for no reason whatsoever. The funny thing is that it wasn't even meant to be a Kevin Smith thread, or even a movie thread for that matter!

― Tantrum The Cat, Wednesday, 19 March 2008 00:27 (eighteen years ago)

Anybody who hates Ferris Bueller's Day Off is a fucking asshole.

I really should see Clerks one of these days.

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 20 March 2008 01:19 (eighteen years ago)

I always liked the Clerks animated series better. Kevin Smith is great when he can't rely on vulgarity.

― robertwolf8080, Thursday, 20 March 2008 01:21 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder sometimes if Clerks would seem like a better film if it was dubbed into a language I didn't understand.

― Forest Pines Mk2, Thursday, 20 March 2008 06:59 (eighteen years ago)

all the posters who like ksmith and this movie cause they grew up in jersey are OTM. he captures the place like no ones business.

― max, Thursday, 20 March 2008 07:11 (eighteen years ago)

i didn't grow up in NJ and i still think clerks is ok.

most painful kevin smith related experience of my life: being in boston for terrastock years ago and seeing some shitty cable access show doing a live action re-enactment of one of the clerks animated episodes. ugh.

― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Thursday, 20 March 2008 08:31 (eighteen years ago)

(most painful next to seeing any of his post-clerks movie, that is.)

― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Thursday, 20 March 2008 08:31 (eighteen years ago)

being in boston for terrastock years ago and seeing some shitty cable access show doing a live action re-enactment of one of the clerks animated episodes. ugh.

Yeesh, how awful sounding.

(You were there, Gott Punch? Did we run into each other at all?)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 20 March 2008 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

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