is there a certain amount of wish fulfillment in social unrest and chaos?

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I ask because sometimes i think the fact that people are fascinated with disasters not only has to do with the awe-inspiring nature of chaos but the fact that it's the ultimate--perhaps only--chance for most people to be completely free of society's expectations, laws, rules, debt, etc. Which i've always felt was the true built-in appeal to zombie films/Red Dawn/"The Stand"--it didn't come from undead cannibals, Red invasion, or a plague, but our subconscious urge to break free of all constraints and engage in some "every person for themselves" behavior. This doesn't mean that anyone wishes to see death and destruction, but rather the abandonment of law, the embracing of anarchy.

true, false, etc...I might be full of shit, I've been drinking.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

yes.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:28 (twenty years ago)

i guess i do sort of mean it almost comes to a point that we wish for a destructive event to shake us out of our social lethargy or whatever you want to call it.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

Sounds about right to me. (I might be full of shit, too, of course. But I haven't been drinking.)

― M. V. (M.V.), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

i don't know about the freedom from society's expectations - in australia the tsunami led to what eventually became a slightly nauseating display/trend towards 'conspicuous compassion' with people competing to see who was the most generous/charitable/open-hearted. it was kinda scary given that no one ever wants to look after charitable causes here in our own country and society seems to be frighteningly individualist in other ways.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

tsunamis are deemed politics-free (though they aren't) and therefore attract all kinds of imbeciles

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

I've gotta admit, although I know I'd be dead within a week, I've always wanted some kind of complete social breakdown to see how long I could survive and maintain some kind of safety around myself and my loved ones.

― Mike Stuchbery (Mike Stuchbery), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

with infinite powerups

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

and perhaps an undead populace that you can shoot, guilt-free

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 03:56 (twenty years ago)

Many of us will get a chance to live like this within the next ten years, I'd bet.

Maybe not the zombie part.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

But certainly the "destroy the brain" part.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

somewhere on salon.com there is an article where they print emails they solicited from people asking them what went through their heads during 9/11 and a lot of them were filled with excitement; I remember one where the guy said "I knew it was wrong but I was anticipating the total breakdown of society" or something.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 05:59 (twenty years ago)

I've prayed for a GTA mod that allows you to experience this.

― Mike Stuchbery (Mike Stuchbery), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 06:02 (twenty years ago)

We know old New Orleans. We know old New Orleans is gone and we await new New Orleans. But in this liminal (?) state between them anything can happen. It is anarchy, and it's as scary as it is freeing. But we're far away so the scary part is easy to ignore. I remember 9/11 in New York, and it was as exhilerating as it was the worst thing in the world. But thinking back on it, I sure prefer that liminal state to the 'truth' that solidified in the new post-9/11 America.

― pretentious pretzel, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 06:07 (twenty years ago)

Um, not really.

YES, REALLY.

Gaaah.

― Mike Stuchbery (Mike Stuchbery), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)

Yes. At least in part, it's the same feeling as when you were in school and a major news event allowed you to spend the day doing fuck all and chatting to the teacher about politics etc.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

I submit that there's a big spectrum between "desire for anarchy" and "enjoyment of disruption to a routine that isn't very satisfying in the first damn place". I secretly like it when things are topsy-turvy but mostly because daily life can be terrifically boring and unadventurous and I like the change, not because I look forward to rioting/looting/Apocalypse.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

There might be a gap between those two things, but that doesn't mean that a lot of people don't at least partly fantasise about social collapse. Yeah, the reality would be boring and unpleasant blah blah but the fantasy is better than your job and your life.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Absoutely, Noodle, I just think we should make a distinction. For all my illicit fun I wouldn't trade it for even one human life if it were in my power (I should hope that's obvious).

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

I think that that says something sad about lots of people's jobs and lives though.

― I Ain't No Addict, Whoever Heard of a Junkie as Old as Me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

It's not fun when people are harmed. If they can indulge in creative play and makes the best of their situation, though, then social unrest is fantastic.

― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of society's derangement. (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, I think that was unnecessarily preachy of me but you will take my meaning.

Possibly the NYC blackout is a good example of a "disaster" that affected a hell of a lot of people but did resulted in almost no loss of life (reports I just googled say "contributed to...8 fatalities" which is a fairly wide net to cast). I remember that even standing on the dock for 6-8 hours waiting for a ferry I was sort of amused and not really able to take events seriously. I think lots of other people were the same, it was a v tame crowd even despite frustration/discomfort.

And sure, it's a commentary on our priorities in daily life but then, SOMEONE has to print books/balance accounts/actually do work (cf every other thread in which someone reminds us that we're not necessarily entitled by the Universe to a creative, fulfilling job we love). This doesn't make jobs evil or tragic, just necessary even if tedious.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

we wish for a destructive event to shake us out of our social lethargy

yup. an irrational impulse, something desperate for a change. "with this shit happening, maaan, people will finally wake up!"

but roving bands of folks with guns with no food or potable water is not a positive thing. sometimes i regret being 3000 miles away from my shotgun & .22 rifle(i come from a hunting family).

not that i'd ever do anything with them ever, but just sayin'...

also, like with 9/11 and the London bombings, just wait for the articles talking about "the resilience of the local people" due ot some mythic trait about bouncing back from the devastation. Like people would be able to do anything else.

― kingfish, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

You are all forgetting something: Y2K.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

i wish for chaos and social unrest all the time, like a great depression II or major class war or eternal power outage or something. but it's stupid, i don't want anyone to starve or die. i just think about the adventure part.

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

NYC powerout still echoes, at least for young single childless people with money, as some kind of Utopian social breakdown: every single person I talk to who was here then has some sort of story about free beer, free ice cream, city-wandering, everyone wide-eyed and friendly, etc. (And at least 40% of them seem to have the same ending -- "and then I met this guy walking home and went back to his place" -- though it could just be that transport breakdown makes people who live nearby seem really inordinately sexy.)

― nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

(Hah, my story ended in me walking from Weekawken to Jersey City, then falling asleep at the bar over my second drink and going home alone because my then-bf wanted to stay out longer.)

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

NYC powerout still echoes, at least for young single childless people with money, as some kind of Utopian social breakdown:

yeah, that's the other part of it. the less weighed down by obligations, the less you're affected by it. when you're fucked b/c you can't get to work since the busses aren't running and you gotta pay for the medical care for your two sick kids, that's something else.

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

Exactly. When I hear those stories I wonder if I have the stomach for it: I have pretty scant hardcore "responsibilities" and I still think I'd spend a moment like that freaking out over the disruption. And if you spent it with a kid away from you, or an old parent sick, or an eviction notice on the door that you were just headed out to take care of, or any number of things to handle beyond "go to work" and "go home" ... I just dunno.

― nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

You know, I just thought about the fact that we used to lose power and/or heat with some regularity when I was a kid, and we lived out in the country with our own well, so no leccy meant no running water. We always lit candles, melted snow, used the fireplace for heat, etc and enjoyed ourselves. Clearly most of the burden fell on my mother but I think even she made a game out of the inconvenience for the most part.

The relative pros/cons of natural disaster in rural vs urban areas is a separate discussion.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

I've prayed for a GTA mod that allows you to experience this.

(Not to sound like a complete dork, but L2-R-L1-Triangle-R-R-R1-L1-R-L1-L1-L1 is the "riot" cheat for GTA:SA.)

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

yes.

― AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

this has been remarked upon before, but it might have much to do with the Western/american comfortable standard of living & mindset. When shit goes bad, we generally band together and work thru everything. Our daily lives tend not to be all that affected in the long-run. once you get to a poorer society, things are far more unstable.

― kingfish 'doublescoop' moose tracks (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

You're right, I have a friend who lives on the edge of "stable" and any little thing not turning out as planned upsets the whole house of cards. That's a very different story from having food in the cupboards and extra clean bedding in the linen chest.

Which reminds me that most of the fun of being snowed or rained in comes from appreciating the bounty of better times stored up in case of just such occasion. It's such a farmer/pioneer/off-the-grid thing, quite probably doesn't translate well to urban living and doesn't translate AT ALL in poverty where there was never any excess to store up.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

There's been a murder down in Queens!
A young couple gunned down at the scene!
Shot in the head, ambushed in a car!
They should've stayed back in the bar!

Cops no protection, don't have a clue!
Come on, boys -- don't forget Article Two!
It's the Constitution! The right to bear arms!
Get yourself a gun, girl! Won't do you no harm!

― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of society's derangement. (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

five years pass...

Revive!

Well, reviving because I read about someone referring to a "bug out bag" which after several web searches later turned up a subculture of folks who want to be the Val Kilmer character in David Mamet's Spartan. Old survivalists never die...

― Stockhausen's Ekranoplan Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 14 December 2010 07:53 (fifteen years ago)

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