What's a good book on the subject of nostalgia?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
A question here would just be redundant.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 17 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

There was one that was great back in my younger days, but it's not the same now.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

As a pop phenomenon, or something more personal/psychological?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

This is the first book that came to mind, dunno if it's what you're looking for.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

I'm not interested in it as a pop phenomena (well, of course I am, just not NOW) so much as a motovator in all culture, high and low. (I'm assuming that once a book reaches a certain level of sociological analysis, the psychological follows by necessity.)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

Haven't read this one but I'd love to;

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/023112/0231125143.HTM

nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

All nostalgia is the same and it is very easy to explain why it exists. It wouldn't require a whole book, unless the book were exploiting the nostalgia of its readers.

Nostalgia is analogous to the process by which the present experience of pain is fully painful, but the memory of past pain is only a signifier emptied of actual pain. In likewise, the present experience of life includes all the complications and perplexities, dull pettiness, struggles and boredom. The past is reduced to a story outline where much of this noise is filtered out and the wrinkles and irritations are smoothed out or replaced by empty signifiers. This process easily lends itself to falsificationof the past.

Finally, most feelings of nostalgia attach to a time when the subject of them was much more youthful and therefore less burdened with discouragement and less careworn. When hope for the future becomes less accessable, people paradoxically begin to project their hopes onto their past.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

That was actually quite well worded and succinct.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

yeah, but he asked for a book, not amateur hour.

strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

I remember we had a book in our house when I was growing up called The Good Ol' Days: They Were Terrible, which talked about the problems of lilving in the pre-industrial age. I suppose that's not quite nostalgia, but I'm getting nostalgic remembering that book.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

Though specific to American families, I thought The Way We Never Were was spot on wrt the lure of nostalgia.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

I suppose whether my answer will be useful depends on whether Mr. Daddino needed an understanding or a citation.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

Le Grand Meaulnes?
A la recherche du temps perdu?

Masked Gazza, Monday, 17 October 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

Aimless, don't you have a navel you can gaze into?

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

Paul Auster's 'The Invention of Solitude' is all about memory and nostalgia.

You know the Greek origin of the word?

Eazy (Eazy), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

I like Aimless's posts.

Masked Gazza, Monday, 17 October 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

Jesus Freaks at the US Luftwaffe ... er, Air Force ... Academy

The posts on this thread in particular were great, weren't they?

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

Better than yours.

Masked Gazza, Monday, 17 October 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

I suppose whether my answer will be useful depends on whether Mr. Daddino needed an understanding or a citation.

How about neither? He asked for a book on the topic.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

Fuck you, MG.

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

The Future of Nostalgia by Svetlana Boym is terrific; fascinating and really well-researched book about nostalgia, its roots as a medical condition, its history, especially in 20th century nostalgia fads, and as an examination of the force in literature, esp. Nabokov et al. It's cheap and readily available in paperback, too. or it used to be.

antexit (antexit), Monday, 17 October 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

George Orwell's "Coming Up For Air" is a great novel which has the pitfalls of nostalgia as it's theme.

everything, Monday, 17 October 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

man, remember when this thread only had 2 posts?

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 17 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

anyway, i'm doing a sort of mini survey on critical papers written about nostalgia and collective memory. it's pretty fun.

nostos = to return home
algia = a painful feeling

in greek.

i've got some articles as PDF's and they've got nice works cited pages, email me if you want a copy.

AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 17 October 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

Do you mean a scholarly, philosophical treatment? Or a novel? Almost every novel I've loved has a core of nostalgia, of longing, of the inability to go back home.
Jeffrey Eugenides, The Virgin Suicides
Ward Just, An Unfinished Season
Two excellent books from which horrendous movies were made—Jennifer Egan's The Invisible Circus and Scott Spencer's Endless Love.
There's a great Portuguese word—saudade (sau-DA-djee), that comes up again and again in Brazilian song lyrics. How it differs fron "nostalgia" has never been adequately explained to me, but I suspect that the people who say there's a big difference are confusing nostalgia with soppiness.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Saudade is a Portuguese word for a feeling of longing for something you are fond of, which is gone, but can eventually return in a distant future. It often carries a fatalist tone and a repressed knowledge that the object of longiness might really never return.

Saudade is generally considered one of the hardest words to translate. It originated from the Latin word solitate (loneliness), but with a different meaning. Loneliness in Portuguese is solidão, also with the same word origin. Few other languages in the world have a word with such meaning, making Saudade a distinct mark of Portuguese culture.


In Portuguese, this word serves to describe the feeling of missing someone (or something) you're fond of. For instance, the sentence "Eu sinto muitas saudades tuas" (I feel too much "saudade" of you) directly translates into "I miss you too much". "Eu sinto muito a tua falta" also has the same meaning in English ("falta" and "saudades" both are translated for missing), but it is different in Portuguese. It also relates to feelings of melancholy and fond memories of gone-by days, lost love and a general feeling of unhappiness.

In his book In Portugal of 1912, A.F.G Bell writes: "The famous saudade of the Portuguese is a vague and constant desire for something that does not and probably cannot exist, for something other than the present, a turning towards the past or towards the future; not an active discontent or poignant sadness but an indolent dreaming wistfulness."

Saudade is different from nostalgia. In nostalgia, one has a mixed happy and sad feeling. A memory of happiness but a sadness for its impossible return and sole existence in the past. Saudade is like nostalgia but with the hope that what is being longed for might return, even if that return is unlikely or so distant in the future to be almost of no consequence to the present. One might make a strong analogy of Nostalgia as a feeling one has for a loved one that has died and saudade as a feeling one has for a loved one that has disapeared. Nostalgia is located in the past and is somewhat conformist while saudades is very present, anguishing, anxious and extends to the future.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

This might be good.

("Expertly tackling the philosophical and emotional themes of nostalgia, memory, love, loss, and endurance...")

I thought of it because the New Yorker ran an excerpt of it as a standalone piece called "Nostalgia."

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

(xpost) That's beautiful.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

I have to say that from talking with him Mike Daddino is very well acquainted with what nostalgia means.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:32 (twenty years ago)

Nostalgia

Remember the 1340's? We were doing a dance called the Catapult.
You always wore brown, the color craze of the decade,
and I was draped in one of those capes that were popular,
the ones with unicorns and pomegranates in needlework.
Everyone would pause for beer and onions in the afternoon,
and at night we would play a game called "Find the Cow."
Everything was hand-lettered then, not like today.

Where has the summer of 1572 gone? Brocade and sonnet
marathons were the rage. We used to dress up in the flags
of rival baronies and conquer one another in cold rooms of stone.
Out on the dance floor we were all doing the Struggle
while your sister practiced the Daphne all alone in her room.
We borrowed the jargon of farriers for our slang.
These days language seems transparent a badly broken code.

The 1790's will never come again. Childhood was big.
People would take walks to the very tops of hills
and write down what they saw in their journals without speaking.
Our collars were high and our hats were extremely soft.
We would surprise each other with alphabets made of twigs.
It was a wonderful time to be alive, or even dead.

I am very fond of the period between 1815 and 1821.
Europe trembled while we sat still for our portraits.
And I would love to return to 1901 if only for a moment,
time enough to wind up a music box and do a few dance steps,
or shoot me back to 1922 or 1941, or at least let me
recapture the serenity of last month when we picked
berries and glided through afternoons in a canoe.

Even this morning would be an improvement over the present.
I was in the garden then, surrounded by the hum of bees
and the Latin names of flowers, watching the early light
flash off the slanted windows of the greenhouse
and silver the limbs on the rows of dark hemlocks.

As usual, I was thinking about the moments of the past,
letting my memory rush over them like water
rushing over the stones on the bottom of a stream.
I was even thinking a little about the future, that place
where people are doing a dance we cannot imagine,
a dance whose name we can only guess.

—Billy Collins

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

That's funny. Yesterday, I was listening to a Cesaria Evora track called "Mar É Morada De Sodade" (The Sea Is The Home Of Nostalgia) and I was taken with the word "Sodada" and googled it and found there was a magazine about Cave Verdean music called Sodade.

When I went to university to read Psychology, I was somewhat preoccupied with nostalgia, by which at the time I mainly meant the acute pangs one feels when something (usually a smell, but sometimes just some inexplicable leap of synaptic connection) thows one back into an earlier time. I went to the library and expectantly, excitedly, looked up "nostalgia" on the PSYCHLIT abstracts CD-ROM (this was a pre-WWW era) but found nothing other than a few papers in psychoanalytic journals that weren't what I was after at all. I wanted stuff explaining that pure *rush*.

Academia let me down.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

Cesaria is just pronouncing "saudade" the Portuguese-Portuguese way. I gave the Brazilian pronunciation.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

Oh, yeah. Sorry I wasn't meaning to make an issue out of the spelling difference.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

You weren't making an issue! Unless you have a way finely-calibrated issue barometer...
But back to the smell thing—smell IS the most powerful trigger. It was the smell of the general store down the street today that suddenly made me shift gears to autumn and know I'd be okay. They still have the screen doors on, and something about the way the coffee smelled in the cooler air just about knocked me to my knees.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:53 (twenty years ago)

I have started (?) repeating myself.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:56 (twenty years ago)

All nostalgia is the same and it is very easy to explain why it exists.

If you generalized this statement into "All X is the same and it is very easy to explain why it exists," and then plugged in other phenomena of human consciousness, even the ones you didn't like ("greed," "bigotry," "depression"), I think you'd be able to see how annoyingly glib this sounds. This is followed with the claim the subject's not worth a book -- and by implication not worth further examination beyond your definition -- which just sounds amazingly self-aggrandizing, like nothing could possibly improve upon this golden apple of a thought. It sounds evasive: nostalgia is NOT to be thought about but instead should be dispatched summarily.

I think I know why this is being said, as nostalgia is often seen as dangerous and seductive because of its relationship with reactionary political and cultural movements, but frankly this makes thorough analysis of it all the more imperative.

I'd like to say that the lot of you have come up with some inneresting candidates for further research, though right now I am a little more open to the "scholarly, philosophical" route than the novelistic one.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

I like Aimless's posts.

Masked Gazza, thank you for liking my posts.

Pardon me, Michael. The methods of exploitation of nostalgia by reactionary political and cultural movements is not what I thought you were asking about.

The fact that an emotion can be exploited for political ends is, to my view, not the same subject as an analysis of the emotion. Fear and anger are also exploited for political purposes, but if you had asked for books about fear and anger I would not assume you were seeking a political analysis of their misdirection and abuse by political propagandists.

I'm not sure that misunderstanding your question amounts to amazing self-aggrandizement. Thanks for clarifying your question. I won't make the same mistake again.

Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

The Remembrance of Things Past by Proust is supposedly THE treatise on nostalgia, if you can get through it, which i can't/havent.

AaronK (AaronK), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Eight hours of this thread, and no Proust?

xpost haha

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it's not a book, it's a fucking box.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

"I know a certain early-twentieth-century French writer, whose initials were M.P., who could have used a good bounce person. If he had, his title might have been the more correct 'Remembering Past Things' instead of the clumsy one he used."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Supposedly the very first sentence is among the most untranslateable things of all time.
Perhaps the difficulty of getting an idea out of one language and into another is analogous to the difficulty of trying to express nostalgia in words.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

"Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure."

For a long time (or a long time ago) I used to go to bed early (or "at a decent hour"). Yeah, I can see how that's tricky.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

It hardly seems insurmountable, though. Perhaps in the context of later sentences? I haven't read the book, in English or any other language.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

"A la recherche dutemps perdu."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

sorry... "du temps"

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:35 (twenty years ago)

Which is also better in French -- it means "In Search of Times Lost," but also seems to imply "By Remembering, We Lose the Past."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

I just remember a wine-soaked meal where a bunch of us sat around proposing better translations of that sentence, only to have them nixed by the most fluent French-speaker in our group.
That "for a long time I used to" is so tortured. Ack.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

What did the fluent French speaker say?

"For a long time I went to bed early" seems reasonable enough.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

I could always pronounce French way better than I could speak it.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

She (the French speaker) thought the more tortured translation in the book was the closest.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

Ah so. Untranslatable because it's so elegant in French and so ugly in English. Gotcha.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

Cesaria is just pronouncing "saudade" the Portuguese-Portuguese way.

Is "cesaria" related to the term "caesura"? Meaning (1) A pause in a line of verse dictated by sense or natural speech; (2) A pause or interruption, as in conversation; (3) In Latin and Greek prosody, a break in a line caused by the ending of a word within a foot, especially when this coincides with a sense division; and (4) In music, a pause or breathing at a point of rhythmic division in a melody.

Latin caesra, a cutting, from caesus, past participle of caedere, to cut off; see ka-id- in Indo-European roots.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0016900.html

salexander / sophie (salexander), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 01:24 (twenty years ago)

I assume it's feminine for "Caesar." Although you don't find too many boys named "Caesar."
It would be odd for your name to mean "a pause in the line." Would sort of rule out having kids.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 01:28 (twenty years ago)

I should have been named Caesar, in that case.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 01:30 (twenty years ago)

It's never too late to change.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 01:34 (twenty years ago)

I am currently reading Alain de Botton's "How Proust Can Change Your Life" and I would recommend it as a philosophical work. It is a lovely enjoyable book.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

It's never too late to change.

It is for me, hon.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 02:39 (twenty years ago)

Ahhhh, I remember the first post on this thread like it was just yesterday. Those were the minutes.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

http://www.robertopiecollection.com/Application/Products/Opie/books1GB.asp

C J (C J), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

that's nothing, http://www.reminisce.com/

magazine is absolutely PAINFUL.

remember those days back when we had segregation....yeah...those were the days.

AaronK (AaronK), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 10:27 (twenty years ago)

and what's worse is that someone from my work gets this magazine because there are several in the cafeteria.

AaronK (AaronK), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

Which is also better in French -- it means "In Search of Times Lost," but also seems to imply "By Remembering, We Lose the Past."

"temps perdu" can also mean time wasted

Baaderonixx and the hedonistic gluttons (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

Also, worst board game ever.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

This
should be listened to whilst playing.

Aimless, you usually seem pretty impressive over on I Love Books, but now that I see you here competing with the wordsmiths and literary lions of ILE- the scales have fallen from my eyes!

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

Alain de Botton takes a look at the challenges of translating Proust's In Search of Lost Time

Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 12:09 (twenty years ago)

I was gonna say that I prefer À la recherche du pain perdu, but I think that joke is about as stale as day-old bread. Anyway, I think I was warned by Rod Serling that- it's a COOKBOOK!

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)

Ignorance by Milan Kundera---but then, it's pretty boring.

xpost to Masked Gazza, DP's posts are the best on this board!

emilys. (emilys.), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.