So I'm getting really fucking sick of condo developments...

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There's been a huge building spree of condominiums in San Francisco and Oakland, and I'm getting sick of it.

Only, I can't put my finger on why.

Environmentally, condo's are a good idea. They're urban, create higher density and have a smaller footprint than suburban developments. They're usually made of steel and concrete instead of purely timber. And many times the residents are now closer to work, so they needn't commute from 40 miles away.

However, the kneejerk in me is sick of the gentrification they embody... it's by no means affordable housing, and often are built in industrial areas... sometimes even taking over active businesses, and that means jobs in a city.

So I'm torn: FUCK these people that are moving in after paying a 3/4 of a million. But I'd rather have them living in some old blighted area than in prisine california foothills. Help me out.

andy --, Monday, 17 October 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

a lot of them are fucking ugly, that's the main problem

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

3/4 of a million isn't that much in today's market.

astor riviera (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

one problem is that they tend to be poorly engineered buildings... they slap them together as quickly as possible just so they can cash in, but these million-dollar apartments are always plagued with plumbing problems, structural problems, etc.

astor riviera (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

For me, there's far larger problems than aesthetics or build quality.

I especially worry about the old produce market area of Oakland's Jack London Square. Here you have this really old, long-standing cool market that has NOTHING to do with a person's status or class, only if you want kohlrabi or endives. But now the area is being surrounded by an increasing number of lame developments, and a City Hall that cares nothing about preserving the character or economic profile of neighborhoods.

Now there's doing the same to West Oakland, which can certainly use SOME kind of cleaning up... but where will the poor people live when the rich folks move in?

andy --, Monday, 17 October 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

they are all over leeds, these days, though i gues they are not called condos there

terry lennox. (gareth), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

When I saw this thread I gave it 50/50 odds of it being a Toronto thread.
They're popping up everywhere. The main thing I don't like about the ones here is that they're being built right in front of the lake. Killing the skyline and view for anyone set behind them (most of the city).

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

South Lake Union/Denny Triangle in Seattle is one huge maze of condo and biotech office development.

http://www.dennytriangle.org/development.htm

The one good thing is that there will be a Whole Foods only a few blocks from my apartment, which I'm greatly looking foward to. It's going into the "Seattle wants their own Columbus Circle" posh hotel/condos/Whole-Foods-in-the-basement Pan Pacific Hotel building complex.

lyra (lyra), Monday, 17 October 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

Wait til they get started on New Orleans... they'll all have fake rustic porches and fishing nets hanging in the lobby.

andy --, Monday, 17 October 2005 22:56 (twenty years ago)

HI DERE NEW YORKE

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

I was just thinking about this today, when I went to the new location of my HSBC for the first time. They've moved it from its cathedral-like space in the bottom of the Williamsburgh Bank Building (on Hanson Place and Flatbush) to a tiny shopfront next to Radio Shack. The move was because the entire building:

ihttp://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/brooklyn/fortgreene/williamsburgh/williamsburghnorth.jpg

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

shit -

.. has been bought by developers (which include Magic Johnson), to be turned into condos. The incredible "altar to money" bank space downstairs, with 100-ft. mosaic of "Breukelen" harbor, flying butresses, etc. is rumored to become a restaurant.

And I was thinking -- isn't a restaurant better than a bank? And in some ways it is, I guess. But then I thought about what it would look like if you had a bird's eye blueprint of that place, with socioeconomic information about the people who frequented it mapped onto it in different colors. It would be a whole spectrum of colors getting wiped away.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)

Plus, it'll be harder to waltz in there for the sole purpose of looking around. Rats.

Laurel, Monday, 17 October 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

HI DERE!

Mad SETI (jaxon), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

there is some good discussion on gentrification on this thread: chicago people: tell me what's going on with the cabrini-green redevelopment

teeny (teeny), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

here in st louis I think we really need condos, but here they're going into abandoned buildings, nobody is really getting kicked out. And you can still buy a studio in a new development for upper five figures, they're not out of reach completely. But y'know, if they're cool and trendy and people move into them and provide a tax base for the city rather than only living in the suburbs, YAY.

(st louis has this weird thing where the city is its own thing, it's not part of a county and so when the population fell from everybody going out to the surrounding area, there was just no tax base left)

teeny (teeny), Monday, 17 October 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

Teeny's StL comments mostly accurate for Cleveland also. Gentrification here is very spotty and verrrrrryy sllooooooowwww.

Anyone on either coast frustrated at what little $750K will buy is directed to Cle, StL, Pittsburgh -- you'll be like a kid in a candy store.

Thermo OTM upthread re: Toronto -- was there this summer for the first time since '01 and was shocked at the proliferation of lakefront high-rises.

Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

Since I moved to the Bay Area in 1996, housing in most places has become so unaffordable that the only places people can live affordably in Oakland are West Oakland, West of Downtown, and East Oakland, which just happen to be the three most dangerous parts of Oakland I've experienced. And not only that, but my impression is that they've gotten immeasurably worse since I moved here.

San Francisco is much the same. Hunter's Point was never paradise, but now it's a bit scary. In 1996, the Mission and the Tenderloin were rough, and the Tenderloin still is, but Tenderknob is descending, SOMA is spreading west, and Mission and Haight are encroaching east. And now they're talking about modeling the Market part of Tenderloin after Guiliani's Times Square... big HD billboards and lots of shopping.

Usually in New York's history, one neighborhood comes into vogue and another comes out. But neighborhoods aren't going out of vogue anymore. That means that the poor are being pushed out to San Lorenzo and Daly City/SSF, which are like the new New Jersey and the Bronx, really. It's pretty pathetic. If nothing else, it means that commutes are getting longer for the people who can least afford it.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 05:37 (twenty years ago)

haha guess what I got on my door today?

NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING FOR PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT - Hillhurst Square

PURPOSE: To present to the Los Feliz neighbors the proposed mixed use development at 4500 Los Feliz Blvd. and gather community feedback on the project. The development site is currently occupied by Louise's Trattoria and The Derby nightclub and is located at the southwest corner of Hillhurst Ave. and Los Feliz Blvd.

The proposed project consists of eighty condominium units over ground floor retail space. The retail use has potential to be utilized by a speciality market such as Whole Foods or Bristol Farms and a combination of small shops and restaurants along Hillhurst Ave.

two blocks away from me. fucking repulsive.

gear (gear), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 05:53 (twenty years ago)

In Milwaukee it's creating a clash between the lower class and the middle class. The developments are making rents skyrocket in the neighborhoods they're going up in. And because of the cheapness to build in "income challenged" areas, a lot of people are moving out, once again forcing rents up.

About two years ago a structure was a victim of arson because a few kids decided it would be a deterrment to building. All that resulted was two more developments going up in the general vicinity due to a drop in taxes.

Camtron (Cameron), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 07:12 (twenty years ago)

which are like the new New Jersey and the Bronx, really.

hey, there are parts of north jersey that are really yuppified and expensive! hoboken rents are as high as anything in manhattan.

astor riviera (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 October 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)


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