Darcus Howe vs Joan Rivers

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vs Libby Purves, who punches well below her weight here after Midweek.

Someone should have blow the whistle on Darcus years ago:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4360054.stm

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 20 October 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

they should've included the presumably missing part where Rivers points out she finds terms like 'black' and 'white' 'offensive'. although if that part actually happened why did she over-react to Howe's dismissal of what could be construed as pedantry?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

She should have called him a cocoa shunter.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:06 (twenty years ago)

darcus howe is terrible in general, and charlotte raven nailed his schtick one time. i'm not a rivers fan of course.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:08 (twenty years ago)

I was listening to this when it went out yesterday morning.

I think Darcus is fab and I thought JR's "I'm so bored with race" thing awful. Apparently JR's reputation is built on dishing out stuff which offends other people* and she might do well to keep her cool a little more when she finds herself offended.

*NB I don't really know much about her, I'm really going from what she said about herself (e.g. proudly going on about being the first to make jokes about the World Trade Centre attacks, etc)

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:11 (twenty years ago)

i only know darcus howe from his godawful new statesman column.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

I only know him from his sometimes excellent, flawed, frustrating and/or provocative television programmes.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh man! I was listening to this on the way to work yesterday, but arrived shortly after Jackie Collins said she had always felt it easy to write from the POV of bi-racial people and she must have been black in a previous life. I had no idea it would get better after I switched off!

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)

Darcus Howe's schtick, as far as I can work out is
a) Identify something that he is crap at (in this case being a father)
b) Muse 'pon for some time,
c) Realise he is not crap after all. Everyone else is.

Why do you think Darcus is fab Tim?

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)

Rivers was talking nonsense, but she was the only one who was standing up to Howe, who was coming across like a great big blustering humourless and sexist buffoon, I thought.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

yeah, equal rights and justice for black people, where are the laffs in that?

i note the snidey comment in today's metro: "howe, a self-appointed spokesman for black rights." how typical of associated newspapers to wheedle their white supremacy schtick into every one of their rancid products.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

b) Muse 'pon for some time,

Black people be saying "pon"!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

you can't blame them

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

I like him because I don't always know what he's going to say or do next and because he is continually thought-provoking, particularly on issues of race. Also he is a wind-up merchant and periodically extremely sentimental, a combination which I find pleasing.

There are people with more coherent lines on issues, certainly, but I'd rather watch Darcus think about something, and maybe do a little thinking myself, than be led through a predictable essay in whatever.

I'd need to listen again to the recordings to hear the bits where DH was "blustering" or "sexist" becuase that's not how he came across to me at the time.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

he was good on Shooting Stars "da queen waz inna car crash this marnin she dead!")

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

wtf marcello? can you troll just the one thread?

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

eh?

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

there's this thing of liking people who are thought provoking, but you know are hugely stoopid about lots and lots of things, and generally have a rub line on most things. Howe is one, and i like it when he pops up because he gets peoples backs up. Burchill is another, but she's dull.

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

his new statesman columns are appalling. only ever writes about himself, in a very, very tired personal is political way and continually goes on about how white people have ruined brixton, which i resent.

― barbarian cities (jaybob3005), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

I think he was blustering and sexist in the bit where Libby asked him about the bit in his program where he met up with his first wife and talked about how he had been as a father. His ex-wife said. "Well, you know really I was a single parent, I raised those kids alone, you were never around". Libby suggested that Darcus then proceeded to fly into a bit of a vicious rant at his ex-wife. "She was my wife", said Darcus "you are allowed to speak to the women in your family like that. I had to educate that woman, I really did". Libby was trying to be kind of light about the fact that he is, really, a bit of a bully. But Darcus couldn't concede the point in even a funny way, he had absolutely no perspective on himself or of the other members of his family, it seemed to me.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)

i missed this. that transcript is ... odd.

"i'm so bored of race" is a fucking imbecilic comment. it seems she meant it in a why-can't-we-all-just-get-along way, but it's just offensively stupid.

however ... some of howe's comments after "later on" are barking mad. where did he get the notion that "the use of the term black offends [her]"? what does "normally I wouldn't ever meet you in my life" mean as a reply? what is he, captain non-sequitur?

rivers deserved a massive kicking for saying something as inane as "i'm so bored of race", but i don't think howe exactly delivered it.

i wish i'd heard this. ah well.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

what's weird is that raven seems to be talking about the exact same documentary, only four years ago.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:30 (twenty years ago)

darcus howe is a much, mnuch better broadcaster than he is a writer. still, i like him a lot. i'm with tim here.

― sfxxx, Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

i suppose my problem with this line is that it assumes you/i have 'the answers', as it were -- that we already understand the line. i don't think making a coherent, non-personalised argument = leading people along or predictable -- it can only be predictable if we're well up on the issue already.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

rivers deserved a massive kicking for saying something as inane as "i'm so bored of race", but i don't think howe exactly delivered it.

oh it's really not that bad is it? if she'd said 'the race issue' it might've helped, or 'hysteria regarding race issues' perhaps.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:37 (twenty years ago)

darcus howe's freedom to talk utter rubbish by charlotte raven!!!!

― sfxxx, Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

i like charlotte raven pretty much for the reason tim likes darcus howe.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:39 (twenty years ago)

saddam hussein is not very nice by a hitler

― sfxxx, Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:43 (twenty years ago)

did charlotte raven turn you down or something? (i think i just like the name raven, that's all.)

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

but her bloke preferred kate garraway out of gmtv! how much of a comedown is that?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/midweek.shtml

i think it's more that she didn't turn julie burchill down

― barbarian cities (jaybob3005), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

I still miss Charlotte Raven's Guardian column (not enough to find out of she's writing it elsewhere).

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:48 (twenty years ago)

I think Darcus Howe is ok but I wouldn't relish getting into a debate with him because my god that man can interrupt. He just rudely cut across every question Purves asked, even before the argument with Rivers. Quite disagreeable.

There's a difference between the TERM 'black' offending you and 'black' offending you, and that distinction was what got immediately swallowed up in the escalating anger of both Rivers and Howe, it seemed.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

oh it's really not that bad is it? if she'd said 'the race issue' it might've helped, or 'hysteria regarding race issues' perhaps.

the last would be more acceptable, but the basic problem is this: joan rivers is middle-class, rich and white. therefore it's far too easy and glib for her to be "bored" with race/race issues/hysteria surrounding them, because it/they don't have a constant impact on her day-to-day life.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

she's jewish?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 October 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

That's true: coherent, challenging and non-predictable is the best of all. Most documentaries on telly aren't really like that, sadly. DH often encourages me to do a little re-thinking about issues I already reckon I'm reasonably well up on, I like that and it puts him ahead of most.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 20 October 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

it puts him level with Wife Swap ;)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

I agree with Tim.

I watched a programme where Darcus went out and met some Indian subcontinental people. It was very good.

I thought the other person was Sandi Toksvig.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

she's jewish

she is? regardless: she's middle-class, rich and white.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

also, religion != race.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

she's female...

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Arik to thread (/in joke)

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

sorry, that's overly glib. what i mean is: people don't look at rivers and see her first and foremost as a jewish woman. but people will look at howe and see him first and foremost as a black man.

sure, it would be wonderful if people didn't notice or think about skin colour. but they do. it's a lot easier, however, for a rich white woman to become "bored" with that than it is for ... well, anyone at all who isn't white.

x-post: so are black women :)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

joan rivers is a famous jewish woman

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

i genuinely didn't know she was jewish. i don't know much about joan rivers at all, to be honest, except my dad likes her. or is it that he can't stand her? so all i see is wealth and whiteness :)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

Brian Wilson called her the archetypal California Girl in his mental book.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 20 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

people don't look at rivers and see her first and foremost as a jewish woman.

i bet a lot people do.

but people will look at howe and see him first and foremost as a black man.

does that include black people? some of whom may be as rich as or richer than Rivers? (no-one has to answer these questions)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 20 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

I would prefer it if Peter Noone had to answer these questions.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 20 October 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

five years pass...

revive

― Elderflower Gimcrax Flores (admrl), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 17:52 (fourteen years ago)

'grimly fiendish' not quite getting it up there

― Once Were Moderators (DG), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 18:04 (fourteen years ago)

five months pass...

Joan, hero:

http://gawker.com/5881267/here-is-joan-rivers-smoking-that-dank-sticky-icky-weed

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 16:35 (fourteen years ago)

was watching that last night it was pretty funny

― Aerosol, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 16:40 (fourteen years ago)

it was gteat how the looked for a Cul-de-sac so they could park and smoke in car like some teenagers

― Aerosol, Wednesday, 1 February 2012 16:43 (fourteen years ago)

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