Steven Spielberg's LINCOLN

xpost they just haven't given him a chance.

But it ain't gonna happen on our watch, as God is on our side! God Bless America!

DANIEL DAY LEWIS
THE GUY WHO PLAYED JETHRO IN THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES MOVIE
STRONGO HULKINGTON

BAD PRESIDENT

THE WHEELS ON THE BUS

So you're saying Abe WASN'T tall and well-hung?

cf Charlize T uglying up for Aileen Wuornos

1. Deep Meaningful World War II Epics
2. Deep Meaningful US 19th Century History Epics
3. Sci-Fi Things With Tom Cruise
4. 'Wacky' Things With Tom Hanks

I think a Jon Williams score might be more appropriate!

Maybe he'll stick in some "raptors" and Indy Jones to redeem himself.

wait i thought it was POPULISM when your audience is a nation of drooling idiots

why don't you take a whack at Tony Kushner too

idk anything about Kushner

Cinematic legibility remains underrated.

lotsa things aren't legible to Shakey

COme on, man, this movie has Michael Stuhlbarg, Tommy Lee Jones in a bald cap, Jackie Earle Haley and D-Day from "Animal House." Show some respect.

TLJ and his wig were p entertaining, Holbrook and Spader too

It's a fine line. There's that scene in Schindler's List where a woman watches a column of people marching into the gas chambers and we look at her, the people, the smoke coming from the chimney, her again. That is very DO YOU SEE, which is fine, except that there are hundreds of people in that scene that still doesn't see, so it kinda makes the victims of the slaughter look like idiots.

Spielberg's inclination to hold the audience's hand through s seemingly endless series of DO U SEE moments

I like the film, but this is legit.

― Mr. Crackpots (WilliamC), Thursday, 15 June 2017

Given that most American knowledge of Lincoln derives from Hall of Presidents cornpone cliche, Spielberg's literalism makes sense. Combine that with Kushner's making Lincoln a shrewd not always benevolent politician FIRST is a milestone, indicative of genuine respect for the intelligence of the audience.

See? Dialectics!

alfred otm

Spielberg's inclination to hold the audience's hand through s seemingly endless series of DO U SEE moments just drives me crazy, I really can't stand it. It feels patronizing.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 15 June 2017 16:16 (forty-four minutes ago) Permalink

yeah sure but the key scene in the whole film, where L accidentally talks himself into the decision that the movie (& the war) hinges on, goes by in a blink

unless you're referring to the scene fairly early on where he runs through the legal argument connecting the Emancipation Proclamation to the need for the 13th Amendment (a scene I quite liked), I must have tuned out before then

spielberg's approach to directing films is very on the nose, like he can't bear the thought that a single person in the audience might misunderstand what he's saying. but i think in this case it was the right approach for the subject.

The most beautifully understated moment to me is when Lincoln smiles knowingly, almost sadly, at the black soldier and says, "We'll get used to you."

I'm not certain, but isn't that said to Mary's confidante, Elizabeth Keckley?

Elizabeth Keckley: I know the vote is only four days away; I know you're concerned. Thank you for your concern over this, and I want you to know: They'll approve it. God will see to it.

Abraham Lincoln: I don't envy Him His task. He may wish He'd chosen an instrument for His purpose more wieldy than the House of Representatives.

Elizabeth Keckley: Then you'll see to it.

Abraham Lincoln: Are you afraid of what lies ahead? For your people? If we succeed?

Elizabeth Keckley: White people don't want us here.

Abraham Lincoln: Many don't.

Elizabeth Keckley: What about you?

Abraham Lincoln: I... I don't know you, Mrs. Keckley. Any of you. You're... familiar to me, as all people are. Un-accommodated, poor, bare, forked creatures such as we all are. You have a right to expect what I expect, and likely our expectations are not incomprehensible to each other. I assume I'll get used to you. But what you are to the nation, what'll become of you once slavery's day is done, I don't know.

Elizabeth Keckley: What my people are to be, I can't say. Negroes have been fighting and dying for freedom since the first of us was a slave. I never heard any ask what freedom will bring. Freedom's first. As for me: My son died, fighting for the Union, wearing the Union blue. For freedom he died. I'm his mother. That's what I am to the nation, Mr. Lincoln. What else must I be?

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lincoln_(2012_film)

I can see why Shakey prefers the grace of Tarantino, can't you?

Many xps but I think goole was talking about the scene where Abe is up in the middle of the night talking to the two telegraph operators?

Euclid's first common notion is this: "Things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other." That's a rule of mathematical reasoning. It's true because it works; has done and will always will do. In his book, Euclid says this is "self-evident." You see, there it is, even in that two-thousand year old book of mechanical law: it is a self-evident truth of things which are equal to the same thing, are equal to each other. We begin with equality. That's the origin, isn't it? That balance—that's fairness, that's justice.

I'm not certain, but isn't that said to Mary's confidante, Elizabeth Keckley?

― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius),

that's it

Spielberg's made more shitty movies than Tarantino has

xp

and more great ones? like 5-0

Give Tarantino 1.

they're so different in every measurable way idk what the point of comparing them is tbh.

(imo Tarantino's made 3 great movies fwiw)

phil: yup that's it. DDL gives a little sigh of recognition in the middle of that speech that's the whole engine of the movie. he recognizes in that moment what the war is really about, and decides to delay the peace negotiations, prolonging the war to win a full victory.

(the score does try to push it a bit)

rmde fine you wanna walk around the Lincoln museum yourself because you already know what you need to know, don't need no goddamn tour guide showing you what's important like some gradeschooler ok ok

nevermind that it's a rare opportunity to see a monolithic figure like Lincoln shown in a layered, subtle near-human way that hasn't really been given to us before now

no-one says you have to like the movie, i get it but feels like yr putting the cart before the horse and missing the whole damn point of the movie

tbh I didn't have any problem w DDL's performance or the portrayal of Lincoln is was kind of everything else going on around it that I couldn't stand

as noted in my original post, you'd have this good stuff immediately undermined by a bunch of crap, which is def Spielbergo's tendency and probably the reason I haven't fully enjoyed a single film of his since idk ... Jaws? Even Empire of the Sun is ruined by that atrocious score.

but don't worry one of these days when I'm bored and alone and there's nothing else to watch I may even get around to watching Munich

not that historical verisimilitude matters, but TLJ as Stevens is perfect tonally and physically.

xpost fair enough. i didnt realize that yr anti-spielbergness went that deep. obv lincoln was never gojng to change your mind lol

seems a shame tho

and alfred otm, tlj is fabulous

otoh I wish we saw more of Seward

rewatched Empire last year, i get some ppl's John Williams objections, but not there.

it *really* bugged me, took me out of the film. which is too bad cuz everything else about it is great.

Great? And yet that one element wipes everything else out. Very strange...

mostly cuz that one element is slathered over every scene

like a finely cooked steak coated in ketchup, you might say

my major beef w/ the movie is i didn't like harris's grant. he was so obsequious! i don't think kushner found the right register for him or something. he's a gruff drunk at the head of a righteous siege machine. at least give us some different kind of writing.

This thing holds up quite well.

DDL and Field seem to be reliably good actors

wish Οὖτις was still here

Especially when he dismissed movies without finishing them.

I do miss him and Morbs.

yes

Not to slight anyone, but ILX with no Morbs is a much diminished place to talk movies

cosign

https://i.gifer.com/fyqR.gif

You have been one of the best film posters ever and have absolutely been the best poll-runner Eric, I'm always interested in what you have to say

We're doing fine. Morbs dominated in part b/c only film and baseball interested him. I'll revive more threads.

Yep. Still holds up. Better than I remembered and I loved it first time around.

amistad better in all aspects i think

Lincoln holds up so well -- except for the montage after he's shot.

Love the standoff b/w Stevens and Lincoln in the basement early in the film.

yes there were good scenes and plenty og good shots and plenty of fine performances (DDL ofc is fantastic)

kushner and spielberg as usual mire their good stuff in sitcom level tendencies