CALIFORNIA "special election" - how ya votin? (inspired by Donut's WA thread)

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I am pissed off about all the $$$ being spent for our "special election" so I am temped to not vote at all, but can't bring my liberal self to NOT show up just in case. What say ye?

― Wiggy (Wiggy), Friday, 21 October 2005 23:43 (twenty years ago)

arnold was in kindergarden cop. i think he knows whats best for the schools. hes like a school expert. i think he does excellent research on his roles.

― howell huser (chaki), Friday, 21 October 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

so I am temped to not vote at all,

Please vote.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

i hated school, and my 11th grade economics teacher was a monster, so I will vote against the teachers. Also against anything for the nurses since they still don't wear sexy outfits.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

I vote against anything that's followed by an Austrian name.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

Walter I will vote, but am likely to shoot down any iniative with a Austrian slant to it. What a mess. It makes me sick to see him telling Bush not to fund raise when he is looking for that money for ads for his special election!

― Wiggy (Wiggy), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

whats with the abortion prop?

― howell huser (chaki), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:46 (twenty years ago)

I vote no on every single proposition out of principle.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Saturday, 22 October 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

I vote no on every single proposition out of principle.

That's a bad idea.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 22 October 2005 06:14 (twenty years ago)

This is the first election in recent memory which I feel like action on my part may, in some small way, affect the outcome. I tried to solicit various organizations to see if they need volunteer help but nobody has taken me up on my offer. What a disingenous power grab by the Republican machine! "Ja, wir need ein spezial-election zo wir kann haff mehr redistricting, ja sicher."

― viborgu, Saturday, 22 October 2005 06:56 (twenty years ago)

I think you have the Republicans confused with something else.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 22 October 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

I vote no on every single proposition out of principle.

That's a bad idea.

Actually, I don't think its a terrible idea. My default vote is no, since by default I think the proposition process is abused and destructive.

Really, I'd like a proposition to end propositions. That I'd vote yes on.

I think I'll mostly vote no this time around.

― mikef (mfleming), Saturday, 22 October 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

What do you mean, Thermo?

― viborgu, Saturday, 22 October 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

I always vote no because I feel like the folks in Sacramento need to start legislating some shit themselves. I dont know one damn thing about all these laws that theyre trying to pass other than what the propaganda commercials tell me - again, nothing. So I just vote no.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Saturday, 22 October 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Tell me what to vote for! I don't want to think anymore.

― Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Saturday, 22 October 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

I'm not a Californian anymore, so please forgive me for saying this.. but the whole "screw voter initiatives, let THEM make the decisions for us" idea seems really screwy to me. Yes, the anticipation and the cynicism, especially when something passes or fails that didn't match your desired result, is not pleasant.. but I'd rather have the opportunity to contribute in the chance of making it match, rather than having it done for me, when we SHOULD be the ones to decide, ya know?

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Saturday, 22 October 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

"we" in this case being the voters in our respective state.. or "californians" in this thread, of course.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Saturday, 22 October 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

I vote no on every single proposition out of principle.

What if the proposition title is Do you not want us to unfairly tax the poor more?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Saturday, 22 October 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I'm familiar with voter apathy, but it seems some Californians have graduated to full-on voter learned helplessness.

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Saturday, 22 October 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

I no longer live in California, but due to the heinous Proposition 13, aren't there some proposals that have to go to the voters and can't simply be passed by the legislature or the affected municipality? Always voting "no" would mean the defeat of any proposition that involved raising taxes, wouldn't it? (If I'm right.) And would play right into the hands of the conservative agenda, which is to cut social services.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Saturday, 22 October 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

73 - NO
74 - NO
75 - NO
76 - NO
77 - NO
78 - NO

79 - YES
80 - YES

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 23 October 2005 06:06 (twenty years ago)

no longer in california, but fuck a prop. 75.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 23 October 2005 06:46 (twenty years ago)

My problem with the voter initiative system in california is simple: it's extremely easy to buy an initiative. Combine this with the fact that it's a great way for the legislature to pass something while washing their hands of responsibility...

With that said, why does no one like prop 77 (the redistricting one)? Is it just because it's Arnold's idea?

― mikef (mfleming), Sunday, 23 October 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

Anyone see the blub about Schwartz-a-negro saying that it was a bad time for Bush to visit because there's a special election going on...? It got buried pretty quick...

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 23 October 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/09/21/MNGDMER9FJ1.DTL

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 23 October 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Here's the recent version...

http://www.uspoliticstoday.com/news.php3?wid=66465309

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 23 October 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

the redistricting thing is confusing, I know there are republicans who are really against it who think that the democracts will benefit more, and vice versa. anything with that much confusion seems like a bad idea to me.

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 23 October 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

it's extremely easy to buy an initiative

Do these things sell well on eBay later?

OK, seriously, how easy is it? None of my friends were able to figure out how to create an initiative. Or do you mean easy if you're a multi-millionare?

― iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Sunday, 23 October 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

While I don't have anything per se against popular initiatives, they and referenda have often been used by tyrants and demagogues (both Napoleons and Hitler for example) to enact populist and reactionary policies. I far prefer an informed electorate involved in (and informed of) the mundane institutional process of the legislature, so I often vote against initiatives out of distrust. We have a state assembly. Why always make end runs around it? I suspect it's easier for interest groups to get their way through misleading campaigns directed at a gullible populace than by lobbying the representatives in the assembly.

― M. White (Miguelito), Sunday, 23 October 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

Regarding Prop. 77 (redistricting)- I have an inherent mistrust of any proposal put forward by Republicans, especially when it comes to revising the electoral process. This is a constitutional amendment which goes into effect immediately. I have to wonder, what do they have up their sleeve? Actually, it's pretty obvious- in a state where Republicans do not represent a majority of the people, they are desperate for a way to work their magic on our elections. The proposition appoints a three-judge panel selected by a very complicated process, with the final decision of the panel subject to judicial review. To be honest, I'm not an expert on the current system of redistricting, but I have not heard any compelling argument that this proposition (apparently one of the main reasons the special election was called) is anything other than another scheme by the minions of Karl Rove and Grover Norquist, just like the recall. You remember Norquist- he's the one who said We are trying to change the tones in the state capitals -- and turn them toward bitter nastiness and partisanship

― viborgu, Sunday, 23 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

Well, I'm less inclined to believe in a Vast Right-Wing Consipiracy w.r.t. the redistricting proposition, and I do think that redistricting by the legislature has had an incredibly negative impact in this state and throughout the US, but other people I've talked to today have convinced me that Prop 77 may be dubious. The current system does not serve the voter's interests, but Prop 77 may not either.

OK, seriously, how easy is it? [to buy an initiative]

Well, remember the recall in CA was basically bought. I've read some good articles on this over the years suggesting that initiatives are more vulnerable to money than the legislative process. I'm sorry I can't point you to them offhand. But yeah Michael OTM &emdash; we have a legislature for a reason.

― mikef (mfleming), Monday, 24 October 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

Would you rather have redistricting controlled by elected officials in the legislature or a panel of three unelected judges?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 24 October 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

Is that an argument in favor of the proposition? I assume it is. To me, it depends on who would select the judges, and what the criteria would be for their eligibility. I think that depicting the proposition as a simple choice between self-serving politicians and impartial arbiters is reductionist. If you're simply asking my idea of the best way to reform the electoral process, then that would be a system of proportional representation where third parties have a fighting chance of getting people into statewide offices, instead of the current one party/two faction scenario we are dealing with.

― viborgu, Monday, 24 October 2005 07:10 (twenty years ago)

Would you rather have redistricting controlled by elected officials in the legislature or a panel of three unelected judges?

The legislature has the role now, and the controlling party always makes use of it to create uncompetitive districts. I can see how it belongs in a different branch of government. Perhaps, though, some sanity constraints on the district shape would make it harder for the legislature to abuse their power here though.

If you're simply asking my idea [...] then that would be a system of proportional representation where third parties....

Not likely, I fear, in this country.

― mikef (mfleming), Monday, 24 October 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

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