"There are no smokin' in Englan'"

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Exceptions: Food Free Pubs, and some clubs.

Since I started with contact lenses, I don't get streamy eyes when going into smoky places. Heck, I'd never know my lungs were being ASSAULTED!

Ahem.

Good? Or bad?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

Bit of a cop out fudge, I think.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

I don't really mind having a bit of a passive smoke now and again.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

mmmmmm cop out fudge

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

i don't give a toss if other people smoke near me in pubs as long as i can get a drink past midnight in a typical London pub should i want to.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

(yes i know the law doesn't revolve around me and that this is more to do with public health and healthcare)

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

I didn't think I cared but I do.

It actually weirded me out to see people smoking inside in London this summer.

I used to smoke a pack a day.

― knife (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, you guys should have plea-bargained... "Let us drink 'til 1am and we'll smoke on the street forever more."

― andy --, Wednesday, 26 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

So, do we all become fresh-air fiends? Or will it make little difference actually?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:51 (twenty years ago)

i left my cigarettes at work :C

― sub-dwayne nelson (dr g), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:00 (twenty years ago)

what a load of wank.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:06 (twenty years ago)

i'm glad. now my clothes won't REEK after a night out of disgusting cig smells.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

cig smells are certainly duller than pipe tobacco smells which i find quite warm and reassuring. as for other substance smells, ile is googleable so i proffer no expertise in this department...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

According to the headlines this morning, this is effectively a curb on pub food, about which I am ambivalent. Pubs are going to "call time" on food.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:24 (twenty years ago)

Meaning: Pus make more money on Cig sales than 'pupgrub' sales?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:26 (twenty years ago)

are you implying that pub grub is made from pus?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:29 (twenty years ago)

ban cars, except on roads that have single yellow lines.

― g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I thought grub was what kept them going.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:42 (twenty years ago)

My typing has gone right up the swanee.

Right, try again:

Meaning: Pubs make more money on Cig sales than 'pubgrub' sales?

Not pus, and not selling food to dogs.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

Annoying half-cocked compromises R us, innit?

― RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

Misleading headline, really:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1845077,00.html

Serves me right for reading over people's shoulders.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:14 (twenty years ago)

I'm a smoker and on trips to New York and Venice, where smoking is banned indoors, I've quite liked it. I tend to chain smoke in the pub and it's nice to have a long night out and not end up having smoked 40 cigs. Conditional though on having an outside where you can go occasionally (Also in NY the pavement outside was a very sociable place)

Back in London it did seem backward and uncivilised having smoking in pubs.

― bidfurd__, Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

Pubs make more money on Cig sales than 'pubgrub' sales?

The thinking is probably more like "we'll lose more by drinking customers going to other pubs where they *can* smoke, than by not serving food".

― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:04 (twenty years ago)

We banned smoking completely in my bar last month. Down 33% turnover, but the atmosphere is much better and I expect a sales recover soon (I hope). We suffer from not having an easily accessible area to smoke outside.

The governments current plan is an unworkable fudge.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

I remember thinking at the time these plans were initially announced that this may well lead to a return to a pub system like we had 30+ years ago. Many pubs will just not serve food at all to avoid turning customers away, and we'll see a clear delineation between Family Pubs and Drinking Pubs (or, as they used to be called, the Public Bar and the Lounge Bar - just on a bigger scale).

I can think of a few round me where the choice is clear, but for the majority it'll be a very difficult decision - especially for those who don't have an outside area.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:45 (twenty years ago)

This (as far as I understand it) is a fudge and not at all elegant, but it seems to me that it is likely to achieve a situation where most pubs are non-smoking but a few a smoking. Which is actually what we want to get to, isn't it?

I rather like no-smoking pubs but I rather dislike blanket bans on stuff.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

I quite like that idea (aldo): the thought of pubs where you can smoke & which make no attempt whatsoever to serve food is quite nice. I'd rather a pub smelled of tobacco smoke that stale cooking fat & non-brewed condiment.

If they would also allow dogs in, get rid of the music and maybe a shove-hapenny board...dear god, what have I become?

― bham, Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

:-)

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:59 (twenty years ago)

So whats the deal? No smoking in food pubs, right. But also no smoking in any night clubs? No smoking in dirty old man pubs?

Good call. :-)

― dmun drive-in (dmun), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 22:17 (twenty years ago)

They've decided to ban smoking in ALL pubs from next summer. Good thing I think.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 22:32 (twenty years ago)

you will all be pleased to find how much better your clothes smell

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 22:55 (twenty years ago)

Protocol question I'd like to get sorted out before next year: if you're in a bar on a date or with only one friend, and they want to go out for fag, should you go outside with them?

― Mike W (caek), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:02 (twenty years ago)

Yes. And then set fire to them to keep yourself warm.

― RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

I think I'd just see it as an opportunity to go for a shit.

― JimD (JimD), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:20 (twenty years ago)

Most of my friends who smoked have given up in the last five years (either because they had babies or had always promised themselves they would quit when they hit 30). The ones who haven't given up have all repeatedly tried to. One thing they all say (both the successful and unsuccessful quitters) is that the time they most want a cigarette is when they're down the pub - when you're getting drunk, losing self-control, when so many people around you are smoking, when the air is thick with smoke, and when you're in a situation which you associate with a good, relaxing smoke. I wonder if this ban will lead to a steady decline in the number of smokers, by making it much easier for people to quit? What's happened in Ireland / New York?

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:21 (twenty years ago)

ireland:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9608/09/nireland.march/violence.large.jpg

new york:
http://media.msnbc.msn.com/j/msnbc/1607000/1607981.hmedium.jpg

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:28 (twenty years ago)

those may not have had to do with smoking though

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:29 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget California!
http://www.sfmuseum.net/quake/fire5.gif

― Lil' Eno (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:30 (twenty years ago)

http://www.historylink.org/db_images/wlt175.jpg

Don't forget about all of the smoke-easy's that have opened up!

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 23:34 (twenty years ago)

Indoor smoking's banned in Boston too

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/revolution/revgfx/bost-mass2.jpg

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:41 (twenty years ago)

Someone pointed out that banning smoke in pubs will not make them smell nicer. Now you'll be able to smell the rancid deep-fat cooking oil and the B.O. of the regulars much clearer.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 08:16 (twenty years ago)

and the bogs. don't forget the bogs.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:03 (twenty years ago)

Protocol question I'd like to get sorted out before next year: if you're in a bar on a date or with only one friend, and they want to go out for fag, should you go outside with them?

presumably you might lose your table/drinks if you go outside, though?

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:12 (twenty years ago)

Heh. There's nothing so funny as listening to grumpy nicotine addicts on radio phone-ins complaining that their human rights are being trampled on.

I don't recall "giving other people lung cancer" being a fundamental part of the Human Rights Act.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:15 (twenty years ago)

hi dere you're talking bollocks.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:22 (twenty years ago)

it does seem a bit odd that smoking can be banned but we don't worry so much about the fumes and such exuded by cars and industry and whatnot. still i hate going into smokey pubs so i'm pretty glad about the reforms (which we are experiencing in my state as well). i gave up my packet-a-day habit about when the very first ones came in, not strictly because of the reforms but they were definitely a factor. so maybe it works to encourage some people to give up, as well as reducing passive smoking.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:25 (twenty years ago)

this is BS. i don't mind people smoking in pubs, banning it outright is hella silly. smoking pubs and non-smoking pubs: fine. but don't decide for us ffs. we're grown-ups. and that smokey smell is atmospheric or something.

ps i don't smoke, so don't be all OH TYPICAL SMOKER ARGUMENT LOL

― the kit! (g-kit), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:34 (twenty years ago)

i think there is a health-related argument to be made though (however many people burden the public health system with tobacco-related illnesses), it's not just getting rid of the yukky smell. still, the same argument could be made about just about any activity involving risk couldn't it. it's a tough one.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:36 (twenty years ago)

Its pretty simple to me. I mean - DONT have smoking near food, thats disgusting (I'm a smoker and I hate that). Am amazed the UK came to the no smoking in food areas so late. That said, it isnt that hard to have an outdoor beer garden in which one can have a puff. People can avoid it, it doesn't affect the staff, everyone's happy!

Standing out on the pavement is twofold silly: crowds of smokers bother passers-by, also usually one can't drink out there due to licensing laws so it is annoying.

Me, I smoke and drink at home now, so when it happens here I'll just probably not go out much. Or not smoke. I dont mind either way *shrug*. Im a tad sick of the vicious "die you smoking bastards" attitude though.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:40 (twenty years ago)

i think we're a bit luckier here though aren't we trayce - i dunno about melbs but in perth even a lot of the nightclubs have beer gardens where the smokers can hang out rather than being exiled to the footpath. they're banning it completely here in the next 12 months or something though. i'm not sure if that will include beer gardens.

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 09:42 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 207 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

can cause a whole host of health problems which even the hugh duty on cigarettes doesn't pay for

Are you factoring in the savings to be made from all those early deaths?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:16 (twenty years ago)

Seems to me this is only going to make the pensions crisis worse.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:17 (twenty years ago)

So, are you trying to be a 'rebel' or something with your smoking, because I feel it is a deeply conformist activity.

Actually, smokers: Do any of you REALLY want to smoke because you enjoy it?

The only smokers I've ever met who actually WANT to smoke are either kids or students, the rest would dearly love to give up but don't have the willpower, and usually relapse in pubs.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:17 (twenty years ago)

I don't smoke

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:18 (twenty years ago)

i'm not a smoker, and think people who want to give up but don't are weak. make your choice and accept the consequences. it's nothing to do with rebellion.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:19 (twenty years ago)

Neither do I. I stopped over a year ago because it was unhealthy and expensive, but I did enjoy it.

xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:20 (twenty years ago)

you will all get over it in six months. pubs are NOT going to lose business. trust me.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:21 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, there've been no job losses in Ireland at all.

― Abu Hamster (noodle vague), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:23 (twenty years ago)

they said that in NAZI GERMANY

xpost

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Said weedy steward should phone the police and shout "it's not my fucking legislation" at them.

and the following day, when the club owner is faced with a whopping fine and weedy steward is out of a job? what does he do then?

Yeah, it's as if the MPs who voted for this have never been to Upstairs At The Garage.

ho ho ho. in fairness: MPs/MSPs drink. some of them might even have been to nightclubs. they know full well the logistical problems here; they've simply chosen to ignore them. sadly, the scottish executive has done FUCK ALL to offer any guidance to publicans/club owners/etc about how to deal with any of this. it's just shrugged its shoulders and looked sanctimonious.

it's good at that.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

some of them might even have been to nightclubs

sorry, that's meant to be sneering and sarcastic ;)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

I don't wild-eyed venom, but I'm pleased with the legislation. I think any wild-eyed venom comes from a tiny minority.

MPs go to that night club Annabelle's (what I can't find).

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

you've looked?

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:26 (twenty years ago)

I once saw Peter Tatchell in the Garage... no, hold on, it was the Arches... and he was never an MP anyway... I'll go out and come back in.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Maybe it might actually force fuX0rs like the Garage to change their draconian door/reentry policies!

― She's In Parties (kate), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:27 (twenty years ago)

I think there's been a 4% drop in pub alcohol sales in Ireland since the ban. How long before the workers being 'protected' lose their jobs?

lots of xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:28 (twenty years ago)

Said weedy steward should phone the police and shout "it's not my fucking legislation" at them.
and the following day, when the club owner is faced with a whopping fine and weedy steward is out of a job? what does he do then?

you can't be fined for reporting a crime to the police can you???

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:30 (twenty years ago)

MPs may well have been to upstairs at the garage and hated it. like all sane people should.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

You have to prove

(b) that there were no lawful and reasonably practicable means by which the accused could prevent the other person from smoking in the no-smoking premises.

xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:34 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I've kept my eyes peeled when I walk along Wigmore Street etc. I imagine it must be somewhere like Harley Street. I don't suppose this really counts as looking, more like low-level thinking.

I can jst imagine Annabelle going round, "Now put that cigarette out, you naughty, naughty boy!"

Is there an Annabelle?

Is Upstairs at the Garage Rooftops?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:35 (twenty years ago)

>> and can cause a whole host of health problems which even the hugh duty on cigarettes doesn't pay for.

this statement is wildly untrue.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:35 (twenty years ago)

lawful and reasonably practicable means

excuse me, sir, would you mind extinguishing that cig? under the tabbing act o ...

[beat beat BEAT stab BEAT stab BEAT. smoke]

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

you naughty naughty boy! yes! yeeees! you're gonna get it snubbed out!!! YEEESSSSHHHHH!!

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

no but your dogshit analogy did.

Wait - that was an analogy?

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

colonel is right; tax on fags is a lot more than expenditure on lung cancer, fabric conditioner, etc.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:39 (twenty years ago)

It wasn't a great analogy but no need to be so rude about it surely? (xpost)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

I saw Stephen Twigg in G.A.Y. once. He was extremely drunken.

― James Ward (jamesmichaelward), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

My experience is that if there is a rule, people follow it! I was very suspicious about how exactly we were going to enforce our smoking ban, especially considering people regularly smoked weed in my bar. However a few no smoking signs and bang - no one argues.

It is not encumbant on my staff to enforce, that is what security is for. But security has bnever been called for this.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

i think "tax of fags" actually referred to cigareets, rather than homosexualness

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 15:41 (twenty years ago)

The anti-smoker is a nasty, didactic bread (of ex-smoker?) and I would not want to be seen as such an anti-funster.

I was hoping you were talking about me Pete. I love being an anti-funster. But I never smoked. I did do snuss once though...

I don't see why in nursing home and prisons they don't ban smoking and instead just use nicotine replacment patches/inhalors/gums. Isn't that what they do for hospital stays?

I also don't understand why people don't take up the nicotene inhalor, you can use it whenever wherever you want! What about snuff? Chewing tobacco? What makes a cigarette so much better?

I am looking foward to the ban on smoking in all public places!

― marianna (mariannapm), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 16:17 (twenty years ago)

i think we have that really. where can you smoke, other than outside or at home, now?

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 16:31 (twenty years ago)

your own car

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Don't get me started on cars

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 16:51 (twenty years ago)

What happened with the whole anti-smoking law in Liverpool? I thought it'd been passed last year but I've been visiting Liverpool regularly over the past few months and been smoking away quite happily in pubs, clubs, eateries, posh bars and so on. Was it a fake law or what?

Oh and the Manchester Evening News today announced that Manc council are planning on implementing the law THIS summer. The absolute fucking pricks.

― Affectian (Affectian), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 20:47 (twenty years ago)

Woof!

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 12:53 (twenty years ago)

"Dog ends smoking" ?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:00 (twenty years ago)

"Dog ends habit for office smokers"

Now that's what I call a nicotine habit

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Awww. I wonder if we can get an Office Dog. Especially if it stops the MD from smoking those stinky cigars!

― Cuair Crithlonracha (kate), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 13:04 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

ack, ew, coff, rank. this ban CANNOT COME SOON ENOUGH. after all the smoke last night in the minibar my eyes sting like fuck, my hair and clothes absolutly REEK, and i have got a headache. bring it the fuck on.

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 13 April 2006 08:47 (twenty years ago)

YES. Very glad to hear you say it was next summer, I'd heard 2008 from someone.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 13 April 2006 08:55 (twenty years ago)

i thought it was next summer... and perhaps this summer in manchester.

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:17 (twenty years ago)

i am with emsk.

i started this morning thankful to be hangover-free...and then i put my suit on and OH NO THE STINK OF SMOKE.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:21 (twenty years ago)

you wear a suit.

― enrique, beatnik, Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:23 (twenty years ago)

The ban in Scotland seems to be working out well. I've got a touch of the cold and was out at gigs two nights in a row this week. Pre-ban my throat would have been rough as dogs. The non-stinky clothes thing is wonderful too.
ATP will be a bit of a shock to the system after two months of lovely smoke free pubs and clubs.

― stew!, Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:25 (twenty years ago)

i am wearing a suit as i type, enrique.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:28 (twenty years ago)

it's a good look

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:48 (twenty years ago)

yuppies

― enrique, beatnik, Thursday, 13 April 2006 09:59 (twenty years ago)

I quit the day the Scottish ban came in and haven't had one since. Am using patches so the real test will come when i give them up. I don't think i could have done it without the ban.

― leigh (leigh), Thursday, 13 April 2006 10:26 (twenty years ago)

it's going to be hard coming back from boston (where there's already a ban) to london, i'm getting used to being able to go to bars without avoiding wearing my favourite jumpers/jeans etc. i will definitely go to bars a lot more once the ban comes in.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 April 2006 11:56 (twenty years ago)

I have never liked smoking. But in the past I have not been fervent about a pub ban. But I went to Ireland where it is not smoky and contra what was predicted, the pubs are fine. Then back to UK: nasty smoke. Yes, it's true: the ban must come, the sooner the better.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 13 April 2006 17:17 (twenty years ago)

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