5 Questions for Britain

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Over the past couple of years, I've had the pleasure of spending a lot of time with British people. While I enjoy their sense of humour and outlook on things, there are a few things that I never managed to get my head around. In no particular order:

1. Why do you call your private schools "public schools"?

2. Cricket.

Rugby is fast paced and contains enough brutal violence to keep anyone interested. Football (soccer), when played properly, can be beautiful to watch. On the other hand, NOTHING seems to ever happen in Cricket, and to compound the agony they drag that nothing over the course of an entire day and sometimes 3 or 5!

3. Marmite.

Who first thought of this vile mess and why do people eat it? In a related aside to the Aussies, Vegemite is foul too.

4. The use of specific foods or drinks to indicate meals or courses. For example: "What would you like for tea?", and "pudding" in place of "dessert". This is more than just a little confusing.


5. National and Political divisions

The country's full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". However, when you meat someone from the UK, they tend to identify themselves as being Welsh, Scottish or English first; rarely ever British. Furthermore, while Great Britain sends one team to the Olympics, England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have their own national football (soccer) teams. What gives?

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

Wha-at is the DEAL?

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 27 October 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

6. Have you heard of pizza?

knife (nordicskilla), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

7. I LOVE Guiness, do you?

knife (nordicskilla), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

8. Does everyone in England dress like they belong
a) In Dickens?
b) On the catwalk?

knife (nordicskilla), Thursday, 27 October 2005 01:03 (twenty years ago)

Marmite is passable on its own but why must some Britishers decide to make a delightful little soup out of it? Ergh.

And is it true that you can tell which part of the country someone is from by how they take their tea -- some add milk first, others add milk last?

salexander / sofia (salexander), Thursday, 27 October 2005 03:16 (twenty years ago)

I was always told to put the milk in first otherwise you risk scalding the milk. However there is a delightful little reality show on in Oz at the moment called 'Australian Princess' in which various bogans are taught etiquette by Fergie's sister and Princess Di's butler. During the tea making lesson one poor girl poured the milk in first to which Burrell exclaimed "NO! You have committed the ultimate crime in tea-making. Putting the milk in first is what common people do - we call them the MIFS, the Milk-in-Firsts!" I was shocked as I had always considered MIF to be the proper albeit slightly poncey method.

wombatX (wombatX), Thursday, 27 October 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

And yes, we have heard of pizza, we just haven't devised a way of making one for less than 15 pounds yet.

wombatX (wombatX), Thursday, 27 October 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

marmite is only ever good on toast, and it must not be spread evenly, but left in...concentrations. kind of like a diaspora

terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 27 October 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

dont ask about cricket, i have no idea.

terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 27 October 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

the divisions thing, well, if you are welsh or scottish, its to do with identity. dont forget that there are far more english people than scottish or welsh, and that english people use english and british interchangeably, as though they are the same thing. welsh or scottish people dont want to be referred to as english!

as for english people, well, as i said, they are likely to use english/british interchangeably.

i would like to dress like i am in dickens!

terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 27 October 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

1. I don't know
2. I don't know
3. I don't know
4. I don't know
5. I don't know

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 05:58 (twenty years ago)

i can't imagine anything more insane than putting milk in first.

people who don't like vegemite simply aren't applying the correct amount. it's not bloody jam, don't spread it like it is.

vacuum cleaner (electricsound), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:01 (twenty years ago)

Actually, I do know the supposed theory for the milk. In ye olden tymes, people used expensive, delicate china for drinking their tea. Heat could make it crack, so you put the milk in first. I don't know what Burrell was talking about - maybe he sees milk first as Nouveau. Whatever, it no longer matters unless you continue to sip from eighteenth century porcelain.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

1) It's a specific class of private schools that were, when founded public charitable institutions with at least some non-fee paying childrens. A lot of the earliest grew out of monastic schools (eg. westminster, refounded by elizabeth after the reformation) or Guild institutions (Haberdashers).

2) It has the tactics of chess and a great deal of grace and subtlety when played well.

3) By product of the brewin industry. What shall we do with this waste yeast? oh we'll boil it up with some salt and flog it. (Entrepreneurial thrift, vegemite is a waste of good vegetables)

4) Why the hell not. Naming meals or courses after the most common things eaten or drank in them at some point, sheer madness I tell you.

5) 1 country, 4 nations, 4 (at least) national identities. As for sports the IOC recognises Britain, FIFA gives special consideration to the 'Home Nations' because they invented 'Association Football'. Britain keeps it this way so it gets 4 votes in FIFA decisions. Another anomoly are that in Rugby there is an All-Ireland team and no NI team (unless you count Ulster which is a subset of Ireland, playing in the Celtic League). This is not unique, the Faroe Islands are danish but they get their own national team.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

Furthermore, Ulster != Northern Ireland - two of the counties of Ulster are actually in the Republic.

(one is Donegal; I can't remember the other)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:46 (twenty years ago)

4 of those answers are right. 2) is the hyperbolic odd one out.

(x-post)

Bob Six (bobbysix), Thursday, 27 October 2005 06:47 (twenty years ago)

cricket and marmite and vegemite rules

you ignorant arse drools

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

We have found his weakness!

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:48 (twenty years ago)

i had toast for cereal this morning.

g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 27 October 2005 07:54 (twenty years ago)

Read George Orwell's essay 'A Nice Cup of Tea'. He really breaks it down (milk in last, naturally).

While you've got the book down read 'In Defence of English Cooking', 'The Moon Under Water', 'The Lion and the Unicorn' etc etc & more of the mysteries of this funny little pissstain of an island will be explained.

bham, Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:15 (twenty years ago)

Cricket is easy to understand. You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.

When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game. See?

C J (C J), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

The appeal of cricket here:
100 reasons to like cricket

bidfurd__, Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

Cricket is the greatest sport ever.

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

Dear Britons: Since "bumming a fag" means borrowing a cigarette in your culture what do you say when you want to have anal sex with a homosexual?

The Ignorant American, Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

"Please may I have anal sex with you, Mr. Homosexual?"

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

A further point on 1) is that when these schools were set up the opposite was private schooling, meaning hiring a teacher to come to your home to teach your kids.

5) In football it has been a hard fight, to retain separate teams for the four UK nations. As well as historical reasons, there was the fact that administratively football was run completely separately in NI and Scotland, with their own authorities and leagues. The odd one out was Wales, where its clubs were part of the English structure. To maintain the distinction, Wales set up its own authorities and league - but the teams at a professional level in England still play in England.

'Fag' and 'bumming' can have those meanings here too, they are just secondary ones so need clarifying by context.

Cricket could have been okay if they had decided to play it for a sane length of time. It is surely not much less inherently action-packed than baseball.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:08 (twenty years ago)

5 days is sane.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:12 (twenty years ago)

1 country, 4 nations

Actually Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is a province, so only England and Scotland are nations.

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:25 (twenty years ago)

cricket and marmite are disgusting.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

Freak.

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

Vegemite is betterer! It's great to have toast and vegemite when feeling seedy after a night out -- something to do with the vitamins in it and the salt. It's also good comfort food when sick.

salexander / sofia (salexander), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

There is a fansite for marmite!

I Love Marmite - HomepageArticles and FAQ about Marmite from a devoted fan who also directs Marmite haters to appropriate information. www.ilovemarmite.com

salexander / sofia (salexander), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Actually Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is a province, so only England and Scotland are nations.

Still nations whatever their monarchichal designation. although it ould be argued that NI is a fragment of a nation.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 27 October 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

I don't get all this "spread Marmite thinly" stuff. Spread it as thickly as you want, it's still the best spread in the world! Like, what alternative is there, JAM!?

melton mowbray (adr), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

No, VEGEMITE!!! Peanut butter and raspberry jam are also good.

salexander / sofia (salexander), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

Um, Bovril, people.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:09 (twenty years ago)

MMMMnnnn,, bovril on hot buttered toast.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:09 (twenty years ago)

Bovril is ground cow bones boiled up with salt. Yuck.

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

Bovril makes a football match.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:18 (twenty years ago)

Furthermore, Ulster != Northern Ireland - two of the counties of Ulster are actually in the Republic.
(one is Donegal; I can't remember the other)

In fact there are three in the Republic - Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal - making nine in all.

I thought you were only supposed to spread Marmite on toast and not make a drink out of it? Can't stand the stuff. Promite is the only way forward.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

Bovril makes a football match.

You forgot your pie.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:38 (twenty years ago)

and some violence.

g-kit (g-kit), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

1) Seems to have been covered fairly well. For Americans (or others): in Britain the two kinds of school are; Public (ie private) and State (ie public). Makes perfect sense.
2) Cricket is the greatest sport in the world ever. Two good test sides playing leads to nail-biting tension for five glorious days. Cricket (like it's massively inferior cousin Baseball) is one of those game where nothing happens for ages...then suddenly everything happens - the sporting equivalent of warfare.
3)Marmite tastes vile, I'll agree. But we are a catholic nation. (note the small "C")
4) Tea was when you drank tea. Obvious really. Dessert and pudding are probably linguistic hangovers from the Norman invasion. You can't really blame us for that one.
5)We're four distinct nations who hate one another (actually, the other three hate the English; they quite like each other) Historically, the unification thing is fairly recent (in European terms that is)

The only people who conflate Englishness with Britishness are neither (or Southerners, who don't count as most of them are practically French!).
"I'm British by birth and English by the Grace of God!"

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Thursday, 27 October 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

Britain has at least three types: Public, Private and State.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 27 October 2005 11:15 (twenty years ago)

WHY DON"T THE ENGLANDS PEOPLE EVERY WNAT TO DRIVE RIGHT?

when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Thursday, 27 October 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

Bovril is ground cow bones boiled up with salt. Yuck.

Not for the last year or so. It is now yeast waste. With Salt. YUM!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovril

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 27 October 2005 13:12 (twenty years ago)

Rugby Union>>>>>>>Cricket>>>>>>>>>>>>>Footie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Rest.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 27 October 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

Only people who went to public/private school have any idea what the difference between them is. The rest of us (probably at least 90% of the population) just say 'public school' for any school that you have to pay for.

Football is far better than any other sport. The deal with cricket is not to think of it as a sport, but as a way of passing the time while sitting in the sun. Rugby is terrible - just a load of fat blokes running into each other.

There is NOTHING in the world superior to marmite on toast for breakfast.

The 'tea' thing is tricky, and is kind of related to social class / north-south divide. Some people have breakfast,lunch,dinner others have breakfast,dinner,tea. The 'pudding' thing is simple - that's the name of the meal, and some puddings happen to have the word pudding in their name (though, confusingly, some non-puddings have the word pudding in their name, eg Yorkshire Pudding). The word 'dessert' is only used in restaurants.

The Britain thing is tricky. Very tricky. When I have to enter my country on a drop-down menu it takes me forever to find it, because I keep forgetting the name of it (I don't think I ever use the words 'United Kingdom', so I keep looking under England, or Britain, or Great Britain until eventually I remember).

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 27 October 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

**Rugby is terrible - just a load of fat blokes running into each other.**

This is rubbish and a typical uninformed view. The only positions where you might be able to get away with being fat, at any level, are in the front row. That's 3 positions out of 15. And those guys are not really fat, they're usually incredibly fit and powerful. In fact the great thing about rugby is that it is a game for all shapes and sizes. I would agree that in the pro-game the backs are beginning to look like forwards, but at grass roots level you'll get 10-stone scrum halves and wingers.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:14 (twenty years ago)

The Britain thing is just words we use to mean England without patronising the jocks, taffs and micks. I say British cos I don't want to identify myself with England; as an idea, England has always had southern connotations that meant I always resisted it, except in sporting matters.

We have four teams at football because we invented it, then the next others were the nearest countries to us. When FIFA formed, they didn't want to piss us all off by urging us all to merge. The Olympics were invented by the French, so they were proper and correct about having us in as the UK.

Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

Doc, how about "Rugby league is terrible - just a load of fat blokes running into each other"?

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

Alright, how about "Rugby is terrible - just a load of blokes (some of whom are fat, but by no means necessarily the majority) running into each other"?

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 27 October 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Rugby League players keep running; Rugby Union players keep stopping for a cuddle.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

**Doc, how about "Rugby league is terrible - just a load of fat blokes running into each other"? **

I'll settle for : "Rugby league is terrible - just a load of blokes running into each other"

League is pants - ALL the best bits taken out - rucks, mauls, scrums, lineouts! And when they get tackled they just....stop.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

its a stupid sport, all of it. especially having two names for two versions. and having to play it in school too.

i hate the fact that in school, you have to play the games of the old colonial upper class, instead of the game of the people. so outdated

terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

How about: Rugby is terrible - and my train always seems to wait there for... no, sorry, wrong thread.

When I was in school, we had to do just about every sport ever invented; or, at least, it felt that way.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

instead of the game of the people.

Darts?

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Twister?

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Beating people up for looking at you a bit funny?

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

ILX-ing?

Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Thursday, 27 October 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

its a stupid sport, all of it. especially having two names for two versions. and having to play it in school too.
i hate the fact that in school, you have to play the games of the old colonial upper class, instead of the game of the people. so outdated

By a strange twist of fate all the male PE teachers at my comprehensive were Welsh, and they insisted that we played Rugby instead of football. Obviously this wasn't very popular, and it can't have been much fun for them either because none of us seemed capable of learning the rules, even after three years of it. Maybe this was some kind of reverse colonialism - the Welsh imposing their sport on Essex as revenge for centuries of oppression.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 27 October 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

Rugby League players don't stop, they keep going! It's blimming knackering, I tell you.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 27 October 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Douglas Adams on tea-making (touches on the milk-in-first debate):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A61345

wombatX (wombatX), Thursday, 27 October 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

**Rugby League players don't stop, they keep going! It's blimming knackering, I tell you. **

They DO stop at the tackle, (unless they pass out of the tackle. Everything stops while they heel it back and then go again. Until the sixth tackle, then they kick. Yawn.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 October 2005 07:14 (twenty years ago)

It takes, like, one second to heel it back!

Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 28 October 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

Yes, after the player has been held down, wriggling, for a few secs. That would be a penalty in RU.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 October 2005 08:14 (twenty years ago)

Rugby League players don't stop, they keep going! It's blimming knackering, I tell you.

You saucy wench!

Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 October 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Have you ever tried to stand up while somebody is sitting on your chest? Knackering, I tells ya. I don't know why I'm arguing about this. I stopped playing after seeing a girl carried off the pitch with her knee bent at an excruciating angle and deciding it really wasn't for me. I still know how to batter somebody with my shoulder though.

Mark - I have very little experience of RL players but the one I did 'experience' was unable to keep going for long off the field. Cue Dr. C telling us how great RU players are in this department.

Mädchen (Madchen), Friday, 28 October 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

On the other hand, NOTHING seems to ever happen in Cricket, and to compound the agony they drag that nothing over the course of an entire day and sometimes 3 or 5!

You've just answered the question yourself, that's exactly WHY cricket

english people use english and british interchangeably, as though they are the same thing

So do most people who aren't Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish. Britain's a redundant concept anyway.

Dear Britons: Since "bumming a fag" means borrowing a cigarette in your culture what do you say when you want to have anal sex with a homosexual?

Depends which Conservative Shadow Minister you intending having sex with

Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 October 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)


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