Balkanizing America

(Spin-off from the Eagles thread) - just between you, me and the lamppost, I think everybody else in the world kind of wants this to happen, cause we're all so "BORED of the U! S! A!" Put your feet up and give somebody else a chance to shit all the world and run everything. China, Zimbabwe, Albania, whoever, at least it'll be something different for a change!

I mean 'shit all OVER the world'

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I think everybody else in the world kind of wants this to happen

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Mmm maybe not everbody, but yeah a lot of people including methinks a lot of Americans (Balkanization of USA = big American SF cliche).

No. Absolutely not. This just ain't gonna happen.

Yeah, there was a civil war, and yeah, come election night, the North is one color and the South is another color. But compared to the divisions not strictly tied to geography -- such as race, class and even sex -- the hatred the South has for the North and the snobby disdain the North has for the South are, well, pretty minor.

Actually, in point of fact, this country is in many crucial ways pretty homogenous. (Even the many pockets of difference are spread, well, somewhat kinda sorta spread evenly throughout the land.) Tocqueville absolutely nailed some of the reasons why in Democracy in America, esp. in the chapter entitled "Why Great Revolutions Will Become More Rare" but you could also add: the mass media, a robust transportation system, the post-war boom, and so on.

As far as I know, even the most 'popular' nutzoid apocalypse wank fantasies (like The Turner Diaries) generally don't involve secession but takeover of the whole country, from sea to shining sea.

Eh, I'm probably dead wrong at that last point. In fact, I can already think of one exception: Ernest Callenbach's Ecotopia, where the West Coast states break away to form an ecologically- sensitive paradise. Based on what I'm reading at the amazon.com entry, it sounds like a hopeless piece of crap.

Ecotopia's not complete rubbish. The ideas in it are interesting, but the narrative stuff is kind of annoying -lots of women proud of their sexuality and not ashamed to express it by having sex with the narrator.

that's the kind of country I want to live in. .

"even the most 'popular' nutzoid apocalypse wank fantasies (like The Turner Diaries) generally don't involve secession but takeover of the whole country, from sea to shining sea"

All kindsa racist far-right types (like R. Butler) dream of Dave's little scheme too, envisioning a Jewish homeland in Manhattan, a white paradise in the northwest, La Raza in the southwest, a black south (!) and so forth.

The takeover fantasists are part of the "true patriot" ideology, whereas the racist right is sufficiently America-hating to advocate breaking it up, and as such have apparently made alliances with other radical separatist groups of other races.

"Liberal" USA as proxy target for all haters of capitalism (maybe the plan is to deport all bankers to America) seems preferential to Dave's little wind-up. As for me, I think America isn't big enough. We should absorb that fleck to our north that pretends to have escaped from the monoculture, excepting the Quebecois and the saddos in Toronto who fake Brit accents.

'All kindsa racist far-right types (like R. Butler) dream of Dave's little scheme too'

Um, I know you didn't MEAN it like that, but just in case, I wish to dissociate myself from such associations. Thank you.

diduknow when you asked that this, that the supposed issue of the possible 'balkanizing of america' is currently in very real use by american zenophobes, who have succeeded in passing a law in 25 soon to be 26 states that makes english the 'only official language' - ie if a person can't speak in english and is tried in a court of law, THEORETICALLY it's against the law for them to have a translator. i saw this robotic white harvard grad on tv who heads the 'us english' movement talking in measured tones about this so-called balkanizing threat. to which another guy pointed out a few obvious facts. 'why would any part of america want to split away from it? like you want to become a new and closer sweatshop country? and who is so distant from immigrants to america that they think they're idiotic enough not to want to learn english of their own accord?'

There certainly seem to be some Texans who think so. A friend of mine at university's dad was apparently the self-styled president of Texas, and leader of the main separatist group.

Texas was its own nation for awhile, between being owned & occupied by a) Spain b) Mexico c) the US. I think the other flags to have flown from Texas are the state flag, and the confederate flag. Which together with the Texas national flag make "six flags over Texas"

"...a black south (!)..."

i do not understand this parenthetical addition at all.

which explains expensive tex-mex restaurant "The Texas Embassy" near Trafalgar Square.

Ethan, what I meant with the parenthetical note was that it seems really strange to me that a set of white supremacists, including many of the ones who appropriate Confederate symbols, would argue that the verysame southeastern section of the country that they feel is in some sense their motherland should be turned over to people they feel are less than human. Get it now?

And uh Dave Q, didn't mean to imply you are some sort of cryptofascist. Sorry for that!

"six flags over Texas"

How does one explain "Six Flags Over New Jersey"?

Franchising.

I've just looked, and it looks like the sixth flag (since the national flag of Texas and the state flag are the same) is FRANCE!! ???

Probably something to do with the Louisiana Purchase deal, or maybe La Salle.