carter's 1970 campaign

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famously racist (promised segregationist seats on the state university board of regents, promised to invite george wallace to ga legislature (the same year nixon gave $400k to wallace's opponent!!), campaigners distributed photos of opponent sanders partying w/ 2 black hawks players & accused him of the gross misconduct of actually going to MLK's funeral, which carter skipped), with an equally famous bait & switch in the inaugural speech ('the time for racial discrimination is over') - did the ends justify the means?

― $!$!@$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:35 (twenty years ago)

the same year nixon gave $400k to wallace's opponent!!

and why do you think that was?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:41 (twenty years ago)

It sounds like he sold the segregationists a bill of goods. I guess this would be akin to a moderate Democrat today campaigning on an anti-gay-marriage platform, and then reversing course in their inauguration address and appointing a bunch of gays to their administration. I guess the people who would be most upset about his would be the anti-gay-marriage people that voted for him.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:42 (twenty years ago)

so is lying & faking bigotry to win the votes of bigots ethical??

― $!$@!!$, Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:48 (twenty years ago)

and yeah nixon was just tryna distance himself from segregationists - my point isnt that dude wasnt a big racist or whatever just thats its funny how he was fucking wallace in the ass while carter said his 'first act as governor' would be to invite dude over

― $!@$!$%, Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:50 (twenty years ago)

so is lying & faking bigotry to win the votes of bigots ethical??
-- $!$@!!$ ($!$!@$!$), January 12th, 2006.

it's pretty contemptuous of the voters, and helps legitimize bigotry in general, so i think... not.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:52 (twenty years ago)

no dude, nixon wasn't 'tryna distance himself from segregationists', he was trying to win their votes. you've heard of the 1972 Southern Strategy, yes?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:53 (twenty years ago)

also Jimmy Carter is as obviously a racist as Nixon is obviously a great friend to the jews

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

They were frightened of Muskie and look who got destroyed. They wanted to run against McGovern. Look who they are running against. They bugged. They followed people. False press leaks, fake letters. They canceled democratic campaign rallies. They investigated democratic private lives. They planted spies, stole documents, and on and on. Don't tell me you think this is all the work of little Don Segretti.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:57 (twenty years ago)

so is lying & faking bigotry to win the votes of bigots ethical??

Well, there's a world of grey areas here, I guess. If you're going to start accusing all politicians who've ever made a campaign promise that they didn't keep liars, then there would be precious few (if any) that didn't qualify. All politicians promise more than they deliver - that's the nature of the game. So I think the "lying" issue is somewhat moot. The "faking bigotry" issue is more troubling - because it opens the question of whether by even appealing to bigots in the campaign you are giving them aid and succor, even if once elected you do everything you can to subvert their agenda. I tend to think that the things you actually do once elected trump the things you suggested you would do in the campaign.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 16:58 (twenty years ago)

is lying & faking bigotry to win the votes of bigots ethical??

no. regardless of the ends, its contemptuous of voters and of democracy, and it sets a ridiculously dangerous precedent.

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:01 (twenty years ago)

dude you aint gotta tell me bout the southern strategy but nixon kinda had little to do w/ segregationism wallace espoused - nixon mightve faced a stronger wallace in 72 if dude had a couple years off to rebuild (or why he got the cia to bust at him j/k) so i really do think it also had to do somewhat w/ more of nixons weird pandering and for that time it wasnt actually to racists

― $!@$!!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:01 (twenty years ago)

i mean, instead of asking what each party was going to do for civil rights, let's pretend that the South wasn't politically dominated by those who opposed it and lost to those who wouldn't make reactionary noises on the stump

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:02 (twenty years ago)

was dude really gonna get the dems nom???

― $!@$!$, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:03 (twenty years ago)

i cant believe the excuses yall are making for this shit!!

― $!@$!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:04 (twenty years ago)

...

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:05 (twenty years ago)

i mean i can see the throw-your-vote-away aspect of it, the stupidity of participating in a deeply flawed political process by conscience, but theres a world of difference between holding your nose and voting for kerry as lesser of 2 evils and running an explicitly racist campaign for office, dishonest or not

― $!@$!@$, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:05 (twenty years ago)

xpost give me a fuckin break dude im a h.s. dropout!!

― $!@$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:06 (twenty years ago)

So in other words, no, it probably wasn't ethical. But it's still probably more ethical than it would have been if he'd actually kept his campaign promises and governed from a segregationist perspective.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:09 (twenty years ago)

i mean, we're still waiting for y'all. they don't call it a 'Sister Souljah moment' for nothing. tho i like that you have to hold your nose for a candidate who refused to play the game.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:12 (twenty years ago)

kerry refused to play the game??!!?

― $!@$!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:14 (twenty years ago)

yeah. point me to Kerry's 'Sister Souljah moment'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:28 (twenty years ago)

Kerry backs state ban on gay marriage
By Patrick Healy and Frank Phillips, Globe Staff, 2/26/2004

TOLEDO, Ohio -- Presidential candidate John F. Kerry said yesterday that he supports amending the Massachusetts Constitution to ban gay marriage and provide for civil unions for gay couples.

― $#!$!@$1, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:32 (twenty years ago)

point me to Kerry's 'Sister Souljah moment'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:42 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah im sorry backing anti-civil rights amendments as a cowardly political concession to right wing bigots is much better than denouncing a b-list early 90s rapper for saying lets kill all the white ppl

― $!!@$!!!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:44 (twenty years ago)

and yeah i know the context to souljah's remark, read her 1st book, etc etc etc, but its still something which she knew would be taken out of context if she wants to be taken seriously as a pundit, which she apparently does

― $!@!%, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:45 (twenty years ago)

kerry's anti-gay marriage stance was profoundly more disgusting than clinton's sistah souljah moment, and much much closer to resembling carter's pandering to bigots in 70.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:48 (twenty years ago)

Well, if there's bigots, there's three options:

- we can either campaign honestly, and say that the bigoted policies they want will not be pursued

- we can bait and switch

- we can bait and actually do it

Ideally, the first is the one you want, but I'll take the middle over the bottom any day. Is it ethical? possibly not. Is it effective? Yes. It seems to me that it's easier to do what needs to be done to undermine racism and bigotry with state backing. That doesn't in itself shift the cultural assumptions and underpinnings, but it's a chicken and egg. A racial state will reinforce racist attitudes, and whilst changing laws and regulations doesn't change attitudes, it starts the process and cuts the legitimacy from under racism and bigotry.

Take South Africa; whites took succour from the legitimacy that having racial laws gave them. As it was normally seen to be a good thing to respect the social contract and obey laws, they could see themselves less as racists but as good citizens. Moving to majority rule doesn't change the hatred in hearts, but it forces people to confront that racism, which is the necessary first step to eradicating it.

So, thumbs up from me. Hoodwink the guys in Hoods. Wink at them as you start bussing.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:48 (twenty years ago)

that said call me crazy ethan but i think carter represented a considerable jump forward from his predecessor.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:49 (twenty years ago)

well yeah dude - new south!!!

― $!@#$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:52 (twenty years ago)

okay then ethan, you got me. i hereby renounce my 1970 vote for carter for governor of georgia.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 12 January 2006 17:53 (twenty years ago)

kerry's anti-gay marriage stance was profoundly more disgusting than clinton's sistah souljah moment, and much much closer to resembling carter's pandering to bigots in 70.

yeah, his support for civil unions is 'profoundly disgusting'.

show me kerry's 'sister souljah moment'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:00 (twenty years ago)

and West Virginia/Ohio are not the South

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

west virginia's big east, ohio's a shithole

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:01 (twenty years ago)

ok
1) gabbneb stop knob slobbering the party's dick
2) ethan come on now
3) of course it's not ethical

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:02 (twenty years ago)

and never mind that Kerry, like lots of Mass Democrats, supported the bill because the Mass GOP sought to introduce a follow-on measure that would have banned both gay marriage AND civil unions.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)

gabbneb stop knob slobbering the party's dick

like when I call out Bill Clinton?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

well like mark s said no matter what batshit/racist/ridiculous/wrong opinions i assume other ppl hold theres always somebody who immediately takes them on in the first 20 posts of the thread

― $!$!$@!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

gabb would it hit you harder if i said kerrys sister souljah moment was shaming dailykos and delinking them from his website??

― $!$!$@!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:07 (twenty years ago)

hey trife (i think it's you), where did you read about this stuff (the 70 campaign)? it's interesting....

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:09 (twenty years ago)

huh?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:09 (twenty years ago)

'hit me harder'? are you serious?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:09 (twenty years ago)

i figured you might care more about the reputation of dailykos than gays being denied basic civil rights

― $!@$!$, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

how competitive was the 70 race? i can't imagine very - georgia was very much a one party state until ralph reed came to town (and even then perdue's victory was a surprise due to coattails, synergy, weird one-issue voter turnout (guess the issue), and an incredibly unpopular dem governor). why did carter pander when he didn't need to? ethan what's the roots cuz i'm curious - fending off charges in the primary campaign? carter's an odd bird, sorta a mix of clinton's opportunism and ego and gore's aspergers and labrat, i've never remotely bought into his sainthood or people automatically naming 'carter' as a president they admire (seriously i'll take nearly any other democrat prez of the 20th century over him), though i do really really like that he has a bestseller about america's ye olde declining moral values and the culprit for once isn't 'gays', 'blacks' or 'feminists' but republicans.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

well dude youd know more than i would but once elected he really did make a dramatic turnaround, incl a framed MLK portrait in the governors office which was a pretty big deal in 71 - i think this is honestly the kinda shit you could just trace to an unscrupulous campaign manager, though carter's bizarre admiration for wallace continues thru the 80s & 90s (in some 90s interview he gave a very backhanded compliment to wallace for coming up with all of reagans ideas - wtf?!?!?)

― $!@$!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

just for your edification:
- i visit dailykos with some frequency, but hardly identify with it, and almost never participate
- i consider the average poster there somewhat ill-informed and seriously politically misguided
- i have mixed feelings about the dude himself
- i think an online community even of that size is at best a blip on the national political landscape
- i think your reference is to the kos comments about private contractors in iraq, which i thought ill-tempered, but understandably so given his personal history, and reflective of a policy position that i, given limited information, agree with
- i don't think Kerry has much power to shame anyone
- even if he did, if shaming the dailykos brought him some actual poll numbers (are you joking?) i'd be pretty much all for it

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

dude i was just clowning you as a dem party loyalist, but yeah kerry really does have sister souljah moments out the ass - dailykos is a blip on the political landscape but some female public enemy affiliate rapper wasnt even that!!! the message to voters is kerry denouncing 'left wing extremists'

― $!$@$!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:20 (twenty years ago)

if you want we can also talk about his lame stands against immigration and maybe 'voting for the war before he voted against it'

― $!#@$!$, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

fwiw wallace is an interesting figure--not an admirable one, but pretty brilliant. maybe carter admired him in the same way that clinton admired reagan?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:23 (twenty years ago)

moderates denouncing extremists has been known to happen when people run for national office instead of sitting around at their computers all day

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

how competitive was the 70 race?

According to Wikipedia (which is about the extent of my knowledge of this period in Georgia political history), Carter played the segregationist/populist card in the Dem primary against the incumbent Dem governor who he was trying to paint as out of touch.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

in democratic party terms clinton was more of an extremist than sister souljah

― $!@$!!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

that is a load of horseshit

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

oh, sorry "former" Dem governor - not "incumbent"

xpost

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:26 (twenty years ago)

maybe among 'extremely conservative democrats' clinton was a huge extremist

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:27 (twenty years ago)

(and apparently the primary was close)

xpost again

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:27 (twenty years ago)

haha yeah - 'cufflinks carl'!!!! i love reading about the election strategies of prominent elected officials before they figured out what actually works, like bush running for the house in 78 and getting accurately sonned as a child of privelege & fake texan

― $!@$!!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

yeah, Wallace began as something of a progressive on civil rights issues (in the 40s), and renounced much of his civil rights opposition in the late 70s, which raises questions about how serious he was on either side of the divide.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

matt i meant extremist towards the right w/ shit like welfare reform - depending on what principles of the dems you endorse i think souljah falls in line more then clinton

― $!@$!!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

But the fact that Carter used the issue in a primary rather than the general election seems to make it even less defensible. It's hard to even use an "ends justify the means" argument, since presumably even if Carter'd lost the primary, the other Dem candidate could have still gone on to win the general.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:30 (twenty years ago)

xpost well make yrself clearer next time, son. if you're talking about "democrats" instead of "democratic party" then you might almost have an argument there

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)

nixon mightve faced a stronger wallace in 72 if dude had a couple years off to rebuild

Or if he hadn't been shot.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:33 (twenty years ago)

well despite being politically 'moderate' you realize the DLC were extremists in the democratic party at one point, before our vast rightwards shift

― $@!##!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

haha thanks for pasting the very next sentence where i mention dude getting shot

― $@!##!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

ethan, why exactly are you starting another thread so you can continue to be shocked by the views you're making up & then attributing to people who don't hold them?

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:35 (twenty years ago)

attacking the DLC? what are you, a dailykos fan?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:35 (twenty years ago)

wait did i make up a bunch of people excusing carter's racist campaigning or did i make up gabbneb saying that kerry's anti-gay constitutional amendment was no big deal??

― $!@$!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:47 (twenty years ago)

...

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:48 (twenty years ago)

ethan do you actually like debating gabbneb? or playing semantic games with everybody else? cuz that's what these always boil down to.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 12 January 2006 18:56 (twenty years ago)

well i dont like being bored at work

― $!$!@$!!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 19:23 (twenty years ago)

yes.

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 12 January 2006 19:24 (twenty years ago)

haha thanks for pasting the very next sentence where i mention dude getting shot

Oh. "Bust at him" was a direct reference to his attempted assassination. See, with Nixon, the CIA "busting" someone could mean a lot of things.

"Bust at him". YOu're a lot of laughs, dude.

http://www.pwi.racknine.net/young.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 12 January 2006 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Niggas tell me money talk
But bullshit is walkin' out on four feet
That's why I'm ridin' on ya whole street
I'll be a nigga till it's said and done
I'm from a section where ya fight till ya die cause ya never run
I keep my forty cal cocked cause these niggas on my block bang
Right up the street from where the cops hang
And in my head I hear Pac sang
And then them rushin' memories make me cry till I can't stop man
Tell my mama I'm a killer if I happen to die
That's how I lived, ain't no sense in me lyin'
My whole life's filled with danger
Never been a stranger to homicide
My neighborhood's full of gangstas and drive-bys
And niggas fightin' for position
The demon has risen from out of prison
Now I'm losin' my religion
That's how I'm feeling when I'm fuckin' with you
Cause I don't fuck with you, now I'm bustin' at you
So fuck you dude

― $#@!$!, Thursday, 12 January 2006 20:04 (twenty years ago)

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