he was just like he is now
plus there was something about my medical coverage
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 March 2018 21:35 (six years ago) link
An interesting take I have been seeing on Lamb is that, while he ran as a "moderate," he also ran pro-labor and new deal dem on economic issues, and that's what delivered him the win rather than being "moderate." I take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to this stuff because each side wants to believe their politics are the way to win every single election. But it sounds credible.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/03/14/labor-delivered-win-democrat-conor-lamb-prevails-district-trump-won-20
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), 15. marts 2018 21:19 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It doesn't really seem to be supported by the data, because Lamb was elected mostly by the suburbs, the working class areas of the district still went for the Republican. But hey, his pro-labor stance didn't hurt him, so no reason not to go for what's right. The boring thing seems to be, from my spot as a foreign observer, that the right candidate changes from district to district...
― Frederik B, Friday, 16 March 2018 00:20 (six years ago) link
what are the odds huh
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 16 March 2018 01:13 (six years ago) link
He went pretty strong for the union vote, and the union guys whom the newspaper and cable channels interviewed believed they were getting a union-leaning congressional candidate. I believe them.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 March 2018 01:19 (six years ago) link
btw karl:
a clown car full of millionaires: the 2016 presidential primary thread
what makes you think that they think he would? what i think they think, and what i think is hard to deny, is that he does not poll as well as either clinton or biden against the other side. obviously that's partly a function of name recognition, but just as obviously it's partly a function of (explicitly "socialist," however democratic) ideology and the fact that he's a brooklyn jew representing one of the (smallest,) most liberal and furthest northern states in america (see also minnesotan norwegian-american Walter Mondale and bronx/queens italian-american Gerry Ferraro, winners of 13 electoral votes, as well as bostonian greek-american michael dukakis, winner of 111 with a texan at his side, neither of whom could call upon a special appeal to the african- or asian-american communities as did far more mainstream illinoisan german/african-american obama, born and raised in the pacific, and neither of whom faced an opponent as abhorrent to the hispanic community as Donald Trump would be but Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio might not). there is some democratic advantage baked into the cake that may mean a win for whomever is the nominee, but as long as victory is subject to doubt, if you care about winning (and the other side's losing), you don't pick the most extreme and relatively unknown outlier in your coalition, you pick a central and well-known/-liked name who will get its diverse membership (a substantial portion of which would not identify with sanders as either individual or ideologue) to the polls and have some marginal appeal to the other side. fairly obvious stuff.― it's not a tuomas (benbbag), Sunday, 13 September 2015 21:29 (two years ago) Permalink(...)Did you actually read what I wrote? It was highly relevant that he was from middle-American Illinois and shares the most predominant ethnic heritage in America (if only because we make such fine distinctions as to the British isles, from which Appalachians don't acknowledge they hail). Or did you think it was because he was "black and socialist and Kenyan" that in 2008 he won neighboring Indiana (only because of the third-party candidate, as in NC, but still), came within 2/10 of a percent in neighboring Missouri, and pushed nearly the entire mountain west leftward, losing Montana by less than 1/2 a percent? That would seem to prove my point that a half-African-American has broader appeal than someone from a more minoritarian white-ethnic heritage like mine, with the substantial number of Democrats who would not vote for him because of his race outweighed by the number of additional African-Americans who turned out on his behalf, as they did in a greater percentage than whites in 2012.― it's not a tuomas (benbbag), Sunday, 13 September 2015 22:16 (two years ago) Permalink(...)the biggest question is the german-american vote. now that obama isn't running, where will they turn???― 1996 ball boy (Karl Malone), Monday, 14 September 2015 22:57 (two years ago) Permalink
― it's not a tuomas (benbbag), Sunday, 13 September 2015 21:29 (two years ago) Permalink
(...)
Did you actually read what I wrote? It was highly relevant that he was from middle-American Illinois and shares the most predominant ethnic heritage in America (if only because we make such fine distinctions as to the British isles, from which Appalachians don't acknowledge they hail). Or did you think it was because he was "black and socialist and Kenyan" that in 2008 he won neighboring Indiana (only because of the third-party candidate, as in NC, but still), came within 2/10 of a percent in neighboring Missouri, and pushed nearly the entire mountain west leftward, losing Montana by less than 1/2 a percent? That would seem to prove my point that a half-African-American has broader appeal than someone from a more minoritarian white-ethnic heritage like mine, with the substantial number of Democrats who would not vote for him because of his race outweighed by the number of additional African-Americans who turned out on his behalf, as they did in a greater percentage than whites in 2012.
― it's not a tuomas (benbbag), Sunday, 13 September 2015 22:16 (two years ago) Permalink
the biggest question is the german-american vote. now that obama isn't running, where will they turn???
― 1996 ball boy (Karl Malone), Monday, 14 September 2015 22:57 (two years ago) Permalink
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 March 2018 02:59 (six years ago) link
gold
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:05 (six years ago) link
I can't read Sanskrit.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:10 (six years ago) link
That's colonialist.
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:19 (six years ago) link
“The suburbs” is not necessarily a useful category in determining whether or not labor was a key factor in the vote. You need a little more information than that.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:19 (six years ago) link
ha! if we're going to go down memory lane, this was fun.
yeah, don't forget that America was intensely concerned with to which precise decimal point obama was of german ancestry rather than widely but shallowly registering the fact of those german roots, well-publicized in connection with the massive speech he gave in berlin in the middle of his overseas tour in the summer of '08 as planned by a very smart campaign famous for its "microtargeting" of the electorate and surely aware of the german-american cast of both the contemporary ethnic composition and historical root culture of the middle america from which he sought to identify as hailing.obama kenyan roots - About 370,000 resultsobama irish roots - About 1,540,000 resultsobama german roots - About 8,040,000 resultsbeing a smart-ass means never having to the confront the possibility that i might have identified a perhaps-highly salient political/demographic factor that you had never considered, expressive of my deeper understanding of the electorate/country, i guess.― it's not a tuomas (benbbag)(...)Obama "Kenyan roots" 30,800Obama "German roots" 6850Hmmmmm― a strawman stuffed with their collection of 12 cds (jjjusten)
obama kenyan roots - About 370,000 resultsobama irish roots - About 1,540,000 resultsobama german roots - About 8,040,000 results
being a smart-ass means never having to the confront the possibility that i might have identified a perhaps-highly salient political/demographic factor that you had never considered, expressive of my deeper understanding of the electorate/country, i guess.
― it's not a tuomas (benbbag)
Obama "Kenyan roots" 30,800Obama "German roots" 6850
Hmmmmm
― a strawman stuffed with their collection of 12 cds (jjjusten)
sorry to dredge up things totally unrelated to anyone who might be posting in this thread, although the condescending tone of the original posts makes me not so sorry
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:22 (six years ago) link
You guys figure out where the German-Americans went yet?
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:26 (six years ago) link
https://www.buzzfeed.com/peteraldhous/trump-and-the-white-votehttps://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/4/1607288/-Did-German-Americans-voting-for-one-of-their-own-help-elect-Trumphttp://www.electionanalysis2016.us/us-election-analysis-2016/section-4-diversity-and-division/why-are-the-german-americans-trumps-most-loyal-supporters/
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:32 (six years ago) link
somehow the weirdest thing to me, out of everything, is that you won't just say who you are
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:33 (six years ago) link
by the way, not sure if you read all of that first buzzfeed link you posted, but
https://i.imgur.com/p6ZNQPj.png
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:38 (six years ago) link
The Dailykos article just shows that Trump did well in states that have a high German-American population, many of which lean Republican anyway, without commenting on how well he did with German-Americans specifically, relative to previous candidates. The Buzzfeed article actually says that German-Americans disapproved more strongly of Obama than did other large white American communities, and that people who identify strongly as German-American tend to be more likely to support any Republican, not just Trump.xp!
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:41 (six years ago) link
The take-away from the Urlaub article also seems to be that the German-American community tends to have conservative leanings generally, not that they identified with Obama and then with Trump because of some kind of ethnic solidarity.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:42 (six years ago) link
The Buzzfeed article actually says that German-Americans disapproved more strongly of Obama than did other large white American communities
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:41 AM (fifty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Between September 22 and October 2, 2016, yes.
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:43 (six years ago) link
:-|
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:45 (six years ago) link
best to remove emotions and personal history from the equation and just let hard science settle the score
gabbneb was rightAbout 6 results (0.32 seconds)
gabbneb was not rightAbout 19 results (0.52 seconds)
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:45 (six years ago) link
You may have noticed that German-American Donald Trump had been a national political candidate for over a year preceding that poll, and more than five years earlier had started to build that national political profile upon an effort to delegitimize the Presidency and obscure the ancestry of Barack Obama.
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:46 (six years ago) link
gabbneb: "I am the FBI."
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:47 (six years ago) link
*half* German-American
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:47 (six years ago) link
He actually is not "half" German-American. His maternal ancestry is primarily English.
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:49 (six years ago) link
first rule of holes: stop digging
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 16 March 2018 03:50 (six years ago) link
m bison otm
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:53 (six years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:42 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Was kam zuerst, das Huhn oder das Ei?
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:54 (six years ago) link
https://pa1.narvii.com/6609/4e1cd18d0384e0369c23e3dbcb2d630da0183979_hq.gif
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 March 2018 03:59 (six years ago) link
let me just go ahead and do a hard thread reset, this should only take a few minutes
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 04:26 (six years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/8xz940A.png
there we go, now we're fresh
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 04:27 (six years ago) link
People, there's a link just after Bookmark. Use it wisely.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 16 March 2018 04:29 (six years ago) link
back to the thread topic, i feel this image perfectly encapsulates the spirit of "people who want joe biden to run for president"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYL1seNXUAAHcJi.jpg:large
― map, Friday, 16 March 2018 04:34 (six years ago) link
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), 16. marts 2018 04:19 (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm just paraphrasing. How about maps showing that Lamb did much better in areas where a larger percentage was college educated than in areas where a smaller percentage was college educated?
― Frederik B, Friday, 16 March 2018 10:26 (six years ago) link
Don't e.g. teachers' unions count as "organized labour"?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 16 March 2018 11:58 (six years ago) link
well they get summers off
― j., Friday, 16 March 2018 13:27 (six years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Friday, March 16, 2018 3:45 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Agreed.
Here was the primary ancestry (per census 2000) in every county that flipped by more than 15 points from voting for Obama in '12 to voting for Trump in '16:Huerfano, CO: GermanLas Animas, CO: SpanishWindham, CT: FrenchQuitman, GA: AfricanAllamakee, IA: GermanBoone, IA: GermanBremer, IA: GermanBuchanan, IA: GermanCedar, IA: GermanCerro Gordo, IA: GermanChickasaw, IA: GermanClarke, IA: GermanClinton, IA: GermanDes Moines, IA: GermanDubuque, IA: German [Dubuque has the highest percentage of residents of German ancestry of any large community in America]Floyd, IA: GermanHoward, IA: GermanJasper, IA: GermanJefferson, IA: GermanLee, IA: GermanLouisa, IA: GermanMarshall, IA: GermanMitchell, IA: GermanMuscatine, IA: GermanPoweshiek, IA: GermanTama, IA: GermanUnion, IA: GermanWebster, IA: GermanWinneshiek, IA: GermanWoodbury, IA: GermanWorth, IA: GermanAlexander, IL: IrishCarroll, IL: GermanFulton, IL: GermanHenderson, IL: GermanHenry, IL: GermanJo Daviess, IL: GermanKnox, IL: GermanMercer, IL: GermanPutnam, IL: GermanWarren, IL: GermanWhiteside, IL: GermanDelaware, IN: GermanLaPorte, IN: GermanPerry, IN: GermanVigo, IN: CarpathianGermanElliott, KY: "American"Somerset, MD: African Androscoggin, ME: French-CanadianAroostook, ME: FrenchFranklin, ME: FrenchKennebec, ME: EnglishOxford, ME: FrenchSomerset, ME: FrenchWashington, ME: EnglishBay, MI: GermanCalhoun, MI: GermanGogebic, MI: FinnishLake, MI: GermanMacomb, MI: GermanManistee, MI: GermanMonroe, MI: GermanShiawassee, MI: GermanVan Buren, MI: GermanBeltrami, MN: GermanChippewa, MN: GermanFillmore, MN: NorwegianFreeborn, MN: NorwegianHouston, MN: GermanItasca, MN: GermanKittson, MN: NorwegianKoochiching, MN: GermanLac Qui Parie, MN: NorwegianMahonmen, MN: NorwegianMower, MN: GermanNorman, MN: NorwegianTraverse, MN: GermanSwift, MN: GermanWinona, MN: GermanBlaine, MT: American Indian Hill, MT: GermanRoosevelt, MT: American IndianRobeson, NC: American IndianBenson, ND: American IndianRansom, ND: German [ND has the highest German-American population percentage of any state]Sargent. ND: GermanSteele, ND: NorwegianThurston, NE: American Indian Sullivan, NH: EnglishSalem, NJ: GermanCayuga [Stupid Fucking White Man], NY: IrishCortland, NY: EnglishEssex, NY: FrenchFranklin, NY: FrenchMadison, NY: GermanNiagara, NY: GermanOswego, NY: IrishOtsego, NY: GermanSt. Lawrence, NY: FrenchSeneca, NY: GermanSullivan, NY: GermanWashington, NY: IrishAshtabula, OH: GermanErie, OH: GermanOttawa, OH: GermanPortage, OH: GermanSandusky, OH: GermanStark, OH: GermanTrumbull, OH: GermanColumbia, OR: GermanErie, PA: German [Erie is a top-10 large county for German population percentage]Luzerne, PA: Polish [Luzerne is the only Polish-ancestry-dominant county in America]Kent, RI: IrishChester, SC: African Corson, SD: American Indian Day, SD: GermanMarshall, SD: GermanRoberts, SD: GermanZiebach, SD: American Indian Cowlitz, WA: GermanGrays Harbor, WA: GermanPacific, WA: GermanAdams, WI: GermanBuffalo, WI: GermanColumbia, WI: GermanCrawford, WI: GermanDunn, WI: GermanForest, WI: GermanGrant, WI: GermanJackson, WI: GermanJuneau, WI: GermanLafayette, WI: GermanLincoln, WI: GermanMarquette, WI: GermanPepin, WI: GermanRichland, WI: GermanSawyer, WI: GermanTrempeleau, WI: NorwegianVernon, WI: Norwegian [one of the few among the 20 or so counties in which German is the most common non-English language that are not also among those with the highest proportion of Pennsylvania German speakers; the others all voted for Romney in '12, but shifted Republican between '12 and '16 by as many as 45 points]
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link
Here are the states with the largest percentages of German-Americans and the degree to which their margin shifted towards Obama in '08 (from '04) and towards Trump in '16 (from '08) [compare to national margin shifts of +10 and +5, respectively]:
North Dakota (47%): +19, +27 (#4 Trump state)South Dakota (45%): +13, +21 (#7 Trump state)Wisconsin (44%): +14, +13 (Trump flipped, Kerry and Gore had both nearly lost)Nebraska (43%): +12, +10 (#11 Trump state)Minnesota (38%): +7, +9 (2nd highest college-educated population percentage among these states, highest turnout of any state in both '08 and '16, 2nd-closest Clinton state) Iowa (36%): +9 (Obama flipped), +18 (Trump flipped)Montana (27%): +18, +20Ohio (27%): +6 (Obama flipped), +14 (Trump flipped) (3rd largest of these states)Wyoming (26%): +8, +14 (#1 Trump state)Kansas (26%): +10, +5 (3rd lowest non-hispanic-white and 5th highest college-educated population percentages among these states; )Pennsylvania (25%): +8, +11 (Trump flipped; largest of these states)Missouri (24%): +7 (Obama almost flipped), +18Indiana (23%): +22 (Obama flipped), +20Colorado (22%): +14 (Obama flipped), +4 (highest college-educated and 2nd lowest non-hispanic-white population percentages among these states; hispanic population grew 40% 2000-2010; 4th-highest turnout in both '08 and '16)Oregon (21%): +12, +5 (4th lowest non-hispanic-white and 6th highest college-educated population percentages among these states; hispanic population grew 65% 2000-2010)Michigan (20%): +13, +16 (Trump flipped) (4th largest and 5th lowest non-hispanic-white population percentage of these states)Illinois (20%): +15, +8 (2nd largest, lowest non-hispanic-white and 4th highest college-educated population percentages among these states)Idaho (19%): +13, +7 (#10 Trump state)
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 16 March 2018 15:41 (six years ago) link
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:50 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Agreed
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/040/257/timecubeflierimg.gif?1318992465
― in conclusion, it is good to peel the sheeps (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 March 2018 15:43 (six years ago) link
hey, they got al capone on tax evasion - if moo v goes down for wasting everybody's time with walls of text that give everybody hand cramps from scrolling, i'm fine with that.
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 16 March 2018 15:44 (six years ago) link
If 'German' is the 'primary ancestry' of most counties in the US, that list doesn't necessarily prove much.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 16 March 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
bean bag, everything you are talking about can be explained by whiteness and not some 19th century fixation on many generations-removed european nation of origin, distinctions muddied each subsequent generation by the crossfuckin of various "ethnic" whites.
signed, an italian-american on my maternal grandmother's side
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Friday, 16 March 2018 15:50 (six years ago) link
Was it over when the German-Americans bombed ILX?
― I leprecan't even. (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 16 March 2018 15:50 (six years ago) link
https://imgur.com/a/NMxZW
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 March 2018 15:58 (six years ago) link
I think the idea that Obama's popularity had something to do with his German ancestry to be a v fascinating and provocative assertion but I think I need to see exactly how that played out. Do you think there's something about Obama's temperament that he inherited from his mother that resonated w/ German voters? Or do you think they *knew* he had German ancestry and they liked that? (That seems v unlikely to me considering the ignorance of the general populace about far less esoteric information.) What are the dynamics within which this ethnic affiliation/affinity played out?
― Mordy, Friday, 16 March 2018 16:18 (six years ago) link
his thick, nearly impenetrable german accent obv - amazing he ever got anywhere in politics with that but clearly once he reached the national level it was a winner, just look at those percentages
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 16 March 2018 16:33 (six years ago) link
Why, why are you all taking the bait like this. Just give him his SB, add him to your killfile, and move on
― Dan I., Friday, 16 March 2018 16:34 (six years ago) link
bean bag gives this place some pep, no way do i wanna FP him
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Friday, 16 March 2018 16:36 (six years ago) link
Old IL senate codger: “Obama—what is that, Irish?”
“It will be when I run for President”
(from Remnick’s Obama bio)
― sciatica, Friday, 16 March 2018 16:40 (six years ago) link
Your ignorance of Harmonic Cube is demonic
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Friday, 16 March 2018 16:46 (six years ago) link
Why ban him? He's entertaining and a change of pace from the manifold Trump impersonations and breathless updates.
― Mordy, Friday, 16 March 2018 16:46 (six years ago) link