Democratic (Party) Direction

Being performatively upset this one spending bill is an extremely “who cares” situation given the context of the various emerging foreign policy crises and the whole “John Bolton exists” thing.

Even if I am performatively upset I should still be able to find a decent answer from someone! then my upsetness (performative or otherwise) could go away! or at least dissipate somewhat

I may also be upset about other things in other places, detailed on the appropriate threads

I understand if you don't want to give an answer, but someone pro this spending should be able to give one, and I'd be happy to read it from anyone, doesn't have to be from any one particular person

I would ask though, that you accept I am being genuine in my question and not performative. I'd like to think I've only ever been genuine here and that a straight question should still hopefully lead to a straight answer

Have you reacted this way to lots of spending bills previously? Is it a regulator thing where you see how much money is allocated and you’re like “whoa whoa whoa whoa”

ftr I’m agnostic on the spending bill I’m just drawing attention to the “primary everyone” take may not have great perspective. I have noticed a thing online where people I know who complained about Obama drones a lot literally didn’t know what the Iran Deal is not do they complain about drones now even though the strikes have been greatly increased.

*nor do they

Have you reacted this way to lots of spending bills previously? Is it a regulator thing where you see how much money is allocated and you’re like “whoa whoa whoa whoa”

no I haven't! This is probably the first, to be honest

I'm prepared to accept that I'm not clued up enough, and that worse things have happened and I didn't realize, or question them at the time!

But thats why I want to know! Am i being persuaded into thinking this is worse than it is? Possibly! Can I be persuaded back? Possibly!

I'm not upset by the bill per se. I'm surprised by the bill, and then disquieted that I can't understand the reasoning. Where i became 'upset' was that I couldn't find a rationale, and none of the people pro the bill were prepared to give me an answer

surprized by the fact every democratic voted for it, i mean

oh I hadn't even thought about the primary everyone bit. I dont...actually really have a take, just wanted an answer so i could understand better, then got a bit riled up when there wasn't one

Bit of a detour, but to try and put more succinctly

I'm not riled up by the bill

I'm riled up that every single Democrat voted to both expand military spending and work with the Republicans and I don't know why and can't find a proper rationale. I'm prepared to accept there is one, i just want to know what it is

I'm riled up that this is happening right before the midterms, and I don't understand the optics, of being perceived as the war party and why they are not coming out to defend against that. I also don't understand why they are happy to be seen to be colloborating with Trump, righg before the midterms and doesnt this take the wind out of the sails of the base

I'm riled up that in the face of seemingly bad optics the senators above just seem not to be answering and I don't know why

I'm riled up that I don't understand. And not understanding something is always irritating!

Sorry for derail everyone, I usually try not to repeat-post!

Just slightly upthread there’s “let’s primary every democrat that voted for this one spending bill regardless if they would have never done/will strongly oppose the very dangerous Iran Deal pullout”

So your assumption is that the progressive primary challenger who wouldn't have voted for the obscene defense spending bill would not oppose Trump re: Iran Deal or possible war.
That makes loads of sense.

Still not an either/or situation.

Being performatively upset

blood is the mother's milk of the American empire

“ I also don't understand why they are happy to be seen to be colloborating with Trump, righg before the midterms and doesnt this take the wind out of the sails of the base”

Agreeing to military funding doesn't really register as collaborating with Trump. Military civilian relations are much broader and complex than who the president happens to be. Military spending isn’t pro war. It’s very distinct from decisions related to intervention.

Thanks! I'd still prefer a clearer message on the positive benefits of the increased spending though!

I don't use social media so I've probably missed out on people's reasoning for why its good, but I've now emailed some friends i know that might answer. If any of them do think its a good idea I will report back and post their reasoning here.

Also, anyone in particular worth reading, who is good/trustworthy on this? Either for increased military spending in general, or preferably purely in the context of this particular bill and the timing of it?

Military spending isn’t pro war.

you're delusional and I'm done negotiating with you in good faith

you clearly represent the worst sort of liberal politics, which I reject

good luck selling millenials on this garbage

fuckin Gabbneb Mk II up in here, even the condescension is the same

You didn’t know what the Iran Deal is.

Having the appropriate knowledge or opinion of the Iran Deal surely shouldn't be a pre-requisite of getting an answer as to why its a good idea for Democrats to vote for increased military spending though?

If i was pro iran deal, anti iran deal, or though the iran deal was card game, I still should be able to get a straight answer to this question!

That Nerdstrom interprets "what's that got to do with it?" as "I don't know what that is" doesn't say much for their reading comprehension, frankly.

so far the only coherent defense for voting "yea" on this seems to be "jobs!". wonder if there's some other job-creating projects that might help counter the stuff that's actually way, way more likely to kill us all than anything the military-industrial complex can handle.

build ten million units of high-quality public housing in ten years, replace every lead water main in the nation, clean up a thousand superfund sites, build fifty new transit systems and address long-deferred system expansions in existing ones. build a thousand solar power plants, restore and improve ten thousand neighborhood parks, build a million new elementary schools to reduce crowding. call it the "war on everything being all worn out and shitty all the time." or the "war on three decades of pretending there is no money for any of these things."

Doc for prez

i've already secured the most critical endorsement

but convincing middle ILMerica is another ball game and if our polling model is to be trusted i face an uphill battle

shouldn't we be taking that money and giving it all away in one big megajackpot lotto drawing?

Doc Casino, I like your version of Infrastructure Week.

sadly it is a watered down, corporate-dem shell in comparison to the earlier, more ambitious program laid out in the basic income thread some months back. the campaign trail has just been one long sellout.

love the mastery with which complexity is shell gamed into a pudding politic itt

"the largest and most lethal employer on the planet is complicated, you guys, lets not raise questions about whether endlessly inflating their budget could have anything to do with 20 years of war"

Military spending isn’t pro war. It’s very distinct from decisions related to intervention.

This is hilarious, did you manage to keep a straight face while typing it?

the largest and most lethal employer on the planet

new board description?

by the way nerdstrom just to inoculate in advance i've been complaining about the NDAA for 15 years and built digital infrastructure enabling thousands of constituent calls to demand saving the iran deal so don't fucking try it with me

Great. Glad you agree with me saying saving the deal was way more important than this spending bill.

v convenient that this unpleasant & condescending poster is called Nerdstrom Poindexter

Woah hey that’s out of line.

saving the deal was way more important than this spending bill

Woah hey that’s out of line.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, September 21, 2018 4:35 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you named yourself, man

Doesn’t matter. Crut’s post was a transgression against the standards of this great community.

Xpost The “primary everyone” post about it is extremely stock ”both parties are the same”. I’ve found (anecdotally) that most people who get loudly worked up about stuff like that didnt seem to care about the Iran Deal, which is interesting imo.

Get a new shtick, this one is boring

fwiw i have no idea how you get from "primary everyone" to "both parties are the same." i feel like this only makes sense if you're refusing to believe posters who tell you they perceive these politicians as being "good" on some issues and "bad" on others... like if you were ignoring those posts or reading them as "i see these politicians as all-bad" then i guess you could get to "i see these politicians as indistinguishable from republicans"........... i guess. or are you saying that a democrat being primaried equals a win for a republican and so that would only make sense if someone thought both parties are the same....... i mean this is a lot of work so maybe it'd be better to start from assuming people mean the actual thing they type rather than some other position that they didn't, ymmv tho

The initial “primary everyone” post and subsequent defenses of it had nothing remotely close to reasonable mentality of “these politicians are good on some things but bad on others” so no I can’t refuse to believe something no one told me.

If you’re not treating “vote out the GOP” as an imperative now with stakes as high as possible and letting one spending bill turn you into an Intercept comment section then yeah you’re helping the GOP.

I’ve found (anecdotally) that most people who get loudly worked up about stuff like that didnt seem to care about the Iran Deal, which is interesting imo.

No, you haven't.

Yes, I have. The posts by Sleeve for example (which you might have seen and are in this very thread) represent this exact type.

ah, so by 'anecdotal people' you meant 'phantoms I've created in my head.'

No one posting in this thread doesn't care about the Iran Deal, it appears that you're just the only person who considers the issues mutually exclusive.

Sure

Nerdlinger isn't wrong that the Jill Stein types who will readily holler about the NDAA have a myopic high volume disdain for anything related to the Obama legacy and so might not leap to defend the Iran deal.

Where Nerdlinger is wrong is in imagining these are the same people interested in primarying Democrats. If anything these people tend to think the Dems are a fool's game. The people working to shift the party have wholly separate motivations, intentions, strategies and key players. By repeatedly conflating the two Nerdy is just slipping on his own banana peel over and over.

So for God's sake shut the fuck up already