How will you celebrate British Day?

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Britain should have a day to celebrate its national identity, Gordon Brown has proposed in a speech portraying Labour as a modern patriotic party.
-- BBC News

I'll probably have a pint and a fight.

― Mike W (caek), Saturday, 14 January 2006 19:51 (twenty years ago)

i'll watch the office.

― killy (baby lenin pin), Saturday, 14 January 2006 19:55 (twenty years ago)

Find a Scotsman and a Welshman and go into a pub?

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 19:56 (twenty years ago)

Was talking about this this afternoon. It was decided that rather than have a "British day" we should embrace all national days from other parts of the country. Day off for St George's Day, St David's Day, St Andrew's Day and St Patrick's day. Give us a chance to celebrate the various facets of our rich and diverse country.

The fact that this would mean an extra four bank holidays had no bearing at all on this thinking, oh no, not at all.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:00 (twenty years ago)

killy: good idea. Maybe I'll watch the US Office on 4 July.

― Mike W (caek), Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:07 (twenty years ago)

there should be an extra public holiday between August and Christmas, say the last Monday in October

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:14 (twenty years ago)

I'll suck off Billy Bragg.

― Masked Gazza, Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Drinking Earl Gray while listening to The Who.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:20 (twenty years ago)

being at work while everyone else gets a bank holiday, as usual.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 14 January 2006 20:22 (twenty years ago)

By achieving alcohol poisoning, wearing regalia.

― Cadaver Carl (Cadaver Carl), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:19 (twenty years ago)

It was decided ...I should say it was decided by me, it's not anything official until I get to take over the country.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

By shoving a union jack up gordon browns arse.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Kill a gypsy.

― MitchellStirling (MitchellStirling), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:50 (twenty years ago)

Stick an effigy of the Queen Mother on top of a bonfire.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Then help K find a really rough thick Union Jack.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 21:53 (twenty years ago)

Send Gordon Brown a Morrissey DVD.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:00 (twenty years ago)

Send Morrissey a Gordon Brown DVD.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:01 (twenty years ago)

Send Gordon Brown, Morrissey.

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:09 (twenty years ago)

Richard Grant celebrates British Day:

http://www.agonybooth.com/hudson_hawk/hudson_hawk_056.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:11 (twenty years ago)

Redevelop Hadrian's Wall as a sophisticated nitespot called Togas.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:19 (twenty years ago)

"You're not coming in. Those sandals are casual."

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:26 (twenty years ago)

i'm going to watch hudson hawk, of course. (i'm only half british)

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:26 (twenty years ago)

Toilets signed as Picts and Pritanis.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:26 (twenty years ago)

For one day I will listen to what Ian Paisley has to say.

http://www.unison.ie/images_papers/news/41/11790/pictures/326460.jpg

― Mike W (caek), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:27 (twenty years ago)

B-b-b-b-but he's not British.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:28 (twenty years ago)

Shet yer moowth ye fenian bashtard.

― Dr. Ian Paisley (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:30 (twenty years ago)

Live there.

― Gatinha (rwillmsen), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:36 (twenty years ago)

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/3042/lgart0121yo.jpg

― Mike W (caek), Saturday, 14 January 2006 22:55 (twenty years ago)

i think i will listen to some def leppard.

― awesome is as awesome does (lucylurex), Saturday, 14 January 2006 23:05 (twenty years ago)

Rock of Ages for National Anthem!

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Saturday, 14 January 2006 23:06 (twenty years ago)

fuckin a

― awesome is as awesome does (lucylurex), Saturday, 14 January 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

I was wondering if there was gonna be a thread about this...

Despite the response the last time I started a thread about "English" patriotism, this makes me deeply, deeply nervous. Perhaps it was his comments about "the British version of the Fourth of July" because I always found the Fourth of July one of the more awful things about the US.

Also, why Remembrance Day? What has that day to do with Britain? If they *insist* on doing it, why not pick a day that has more to do with something we would be better celebrating? Something more... well, British. The Anniversary of the Battle of Hastings? The signing of the Magna Carta? The Act of Union with Scotland?

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:33 (twenty years ago)

British Day is a very silly idea. I'm not opposed to the idea of a national day but the fact is that Britain is already a country of nations, and each of those nations already has its national day. Which Britons feel truly British first and foremost, and English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish only secondarily? Very few I imagine. And yes, having it replace Remembrance Day would be doubly bonkers, since Remembrance Day is observed and is a public holiday in many European countries.

― Alberto Antunes, Monday, 16 January 2006 11:43 (twenty years ago)

Yes I want to keep Remembrance Day as it is, please. Celebrating the Act of Union would be a bit incendiary in some quarters and who wants to celebrate being invaded? Ailsa otm upthread

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:47 (twenty years ago)

Which Britons feel truly British first and foremost, and English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish only secondarily? Very few I imagine.

Plenty of non-white Britons feel this way.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:49 (twenty years ago)

I think we should celebrate the signing of the Magna Carta. I mean, even if it's about the rights of a gang of Toffs over the King, still, it's the basis of all British rights, and our first stand against absolute government and symbolic of British resistence to Tyranny, blah blah, if I carry on this way, then Rule Britannia will start up in the background so I'll stop...

But anyway, I do actually think "British Day" is a stupid idea and that the British, en masse, will just not go for it. And even if it's trying to reclaim nationalism back from yobs and bigots, those are the only people who will end up celebrating it. Sigh.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:51 (twenty years ago)

We can celebrate the independence of our nation by blowing up a small part of it.

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:53 (twenty years ago)

Which Britons feel truly British first and foremost, and English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish only secondarily? Very few I imagine.

Plenty of non-white Britons feel this way.

Or maybe they feel ethnicity first, British second. My lot are relatively recent immigrants (c.100 years) and that's how I feel sometimes. It changes daily I guess. But we must Pin It Down for survey and census and database cos otherwise the country will collapse.

Magna carta is English though xpost

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 January 2006 11:55 (twenty years ago)

I don't know; I've talked about my curious sense of nationality, and the confusion over it, before.

My family are Scots, but they were colonials, and spent so long administering Africa, India, Singapore, that they, instead of going "native" (though doubtless, bits did rub off on us) they responded by becoming "more British than that British".

I was born in England - does that make me English? But raised, in another country, by a family who were still clinging onto their (colonial) British identity. So yes, I feel more "British" than I feel English or American or certainly Scottish. But it is an identity that was formed in opposition to other cultures, rather than an positive identity.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:03 (twenty years ago)

The UK is largely a political rather than a cultural construct. I think it's pretty hard to say what, culturally, it actually means to be British.

― Alberto Antunes, Monday, 16 January 2006 12:05 (twenty years ago)

God, you can tell I haven't had my coffee yet.

My family are Scots, but they were colonials, and spent so long administering Africa, India, Singapore, that, instead of going "native" (though doubtless, bits did rub off on us) they responded by becoming "more British than theBritish".

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:06 (twenty years ago)

The UK is largely a political rather than a cultural construct.

Well, yes, that's why I thought it would be more appropriate to celebrate some political gain like the Magna Carta. (Yes, I know that's only English, but something like that.)

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:07 (twenty years ago)

Or maybe they feel ethnicity first, British second.

This construction implies that "ethnicity" is solely something to do with the non-British aspects of one's identity. Britishness is an ethnicity as well as a nationality, or it can be if that's the way you feel about yourself.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:07 (twenty years ago)

xpost I read it as "more British than that there British" - which makes perfect sense to me. Maybe it's because I haven't drank enough tea yet.

As for Britishness - I'm definitely English first. Britain doesn't actually mean anything at all to me, at least so far as how I feel towards it. We might as well have an EU Day.

― Johnny B Was Quizzical (Johnney B), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:11 (twenty years ago)

But Britishness *isn't* an ethnicity! It's a political construct!

x-post

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:12 (twenty years ago)

To be contrary, I'd say there is a British cultural identity, maybe borne out of political contingencies, but still there. It just suits everyone better to say that there isn't. The English and the Scottish have at least as much in common culturally as a New Yorker and a Texan. And probably have more in common than the Flemish and the Walloons.

― jz, Monday, 16 January 2006 12:14 (twenty years ago)

Identity does rely on 'the other' so 'positive identity' in a sense is a difficult thing to define. When people have a strong nationalistic streak and are asked to identify what they love about their country, you get answers like 'a nice cup of tea' or 'fair play' or technological achievements or famous sons and daughters, but I suspect what's most important to a lot of people is that they aren't English/French/German/American/whatever. It depends on what they're reacting to, too: e.g. British vs EU or the world, English vs France, Scottish vs English etc. It's dependent on the inferiority complex.

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:18 (twenty years ago)

It's easy to be British in Africa, or to be British in America. It is almost impossible to be British in England.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:19 (twenty years ago)

Alba, how Indian do you feel? I feel I'm intrinsically about as British (English maybe, though I am part Scottish too and it does make a difference) as they come, but I still enjoy and celebrate and am proud of my half-foreign blood.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:19 (twenty years ago)

My parentage is so mixed (Scots, Welsh, Irish and English mixing it up good in Manchester and Liverpool during the industrial revolution) that I can't help but feel British rather than English. And what does it mean to be English anyway?

If ethnicity is anything to do with race, then very few people in Britain, and least of all in England, can point to any meaningful, distinct ethnic roots; we're such a mixture. Which is a good thing, imo.

― Zora (Zora), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:20 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 36 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

No, Kate. The island is GREAT BRITAIN.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:57 (twenty years ago)

Let's do that with Englishness instead of Britishness, Kate.

Racial? Nope (for the same reasons you gave)

National? Nope. Fill out visa forms immigration and you're BRITISH not ENGLISH

Religious? Nope (for the same reasons you gave)

Linguistic? Plenty of non-English speakers

Cultural?

Now that's an even more nebulous concept than ethnicity.

The most important one though, I'd say.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:58 (twenty years ago)

UK includes Northern Ireland, Kate. Anyway, including Northern Ireland in Britain seems to me the same kind of political gesture as confusing Northern Ireland with Ulster; those aren't definitions I subscribe to.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:59 (twenty years ago)

The British Isles aka Great Britain *do* include the Isle of Wight and the Hebrides and probably the Isle of Mann, but do not include Ireland.

The British Isles is a geographical term that does include all of Ireland.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 12:59 (twenty years ago)

And the British Isles do include Ireland, usually. Which is a bit unfortunate, politically. Hence Davies' use of The Isles.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:00 (twenty years ago)

I'm all for the extra day off regardless of what I identify myself as, and I'm 100% behind Ailsa's cunning plan (though I think we should add an extra day or two for Cornwell and the Isle of Man and maybe the Channel Islands).

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:01 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, yes, British Day. Rubbish idea. Part of my idea of Britishness involves aversion to the idea of vulgarly waving one's flag for a national day. It's just not... cricket.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:03 (twenty years ago)

great britain = the island of wales-england-scotland (and, facing it, the isle of wight, the western isles)

uk = that plus n. ireland (and maybe isle of man?)

british isles = plus s. ireland

britain = up for debate.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:03 (twenty years ago)

IOM not part of the UK.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:04 (twenty years ago)

I have checked the usual reference and my clumbsy arguing aside, I think we're saying that same thing. What I'm trying to say is that "Great Britain" and "The British Isles" and "The United Kingdom" are neither geographically nor politically synonymous.

"Britain" as a geographical entity does not include Northern Ireland (though "the British Isles" does) - though the United Kingdom does.

So which of these geographical or political entities are we referring to when we say "British"?

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:04 (twenty years ago)

Also, ha ha, the Channel Islands, though not geopgraphically even part of the British Islands, belong to the UK because they are the last remnant of the Duchy of Normandy. Heh. Interesting.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:05 (twenty years ago)

I don't really feel English, either. I've never understood what the patriotic feeling is like.

x post:

Yeah, I think we can all agree on the key point here, which is that Gordon Brown was talking shite.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:06 (twenty years ago)

IOM is a "British crown dependency", whatever that is.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:07 (twenty years ago)

Part of my idea of Britishness involves aversion to the idea of vulgarly waving one's flag for a national day.

I agree. If you're British you just KNOW that you're better than the Americans, French etc. You don't need some special day to convince yourself of the fact.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:07 (twenty years ago)

Like I said, we will all celebrate "British Day" by having a long, pedantic argument about the geographical boundaries of "Britain".

Part of my idea of Britishness involves aversion to the idea of vulgarly waving one's flag for a national day. It's just not... cricket.

Well, yes, OTM.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:08 (twenty years ago)

IOM is a "British crown dependency", whatever that is.
-- Onimo (gerry.wat...), January 16th, 2006

i shd really know this shit.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:10 (twenty years ago)

It means they're almost toothless.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:11 (twenty years ago)

It's easy to be British in Africa, or to be British in America. It is almost impossible to be British in England.

maybe it is if you're an english. as a welsh living in england i feel way more british than welsh. my mum is an english though, which may have something to do with it i guess.

if they're gonna give us another bank holiday, please bring it on. also please do it sometime in mid-to-late september, perhaps the third monday? so it's still warm enough to go in the sea. doing it on remembrance day is a completely stupid idea - remembrance day is not about celebrating, it's about remembering something awful in an effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. you don't want boors charging around drunk in two-foot-tall furry hats on a day like that, which is inevitably what would happen.

― emsk ( emsk), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:13 (twenty years ago)

Let's celebrate British Day by having this argument once a year.

― Mike W (caek), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:14 (twenty years ago)

British Crown dependency is like Bermuda, I think, where Mrs Vague was born. They had a referendum not so long ago as to whether they wanted independence. They voted no. Naomi was gutted cos she fancied a Bermudan passport.

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:15 (twenty years ago)

And the British Isles do include Ireland, usually. Which is a bit unfortunate, politically. Hence Davies' use of The Isles.

I rather like the term "the Atlantic Archipelago". It doesn't get used much.

Archaeologists, particularly Iron Age ones, will often use "insular" as an alternative to "British" that also includes all of Ireland.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:17 (twenty years ago)

The Isle of Mann is the geographic centre of the British Isles, so it's a bit rubbish that they have such a miserable political designation.

Anyway, how can they use Islands of the North Atlantic, because surely that would include also the Faroe Islands and perhaps even Iceland! (Though maybe Iceland would rather be British than Scandinavian?) ;-)

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:19 (twenty years ago)

Iceland is Nordic, not Scandinavian :-P

At least "Islands of the North Atlantic" isn't as vague as "Insular", which is now the standard term in British and Irish archaeology.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:21 (twenty years ago)

the manx are proud to have an older parliament than england or some old rot, so they have some legal independence, viz no seatbelts, 'birching', and illegal gaying (until recently).

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:22 (twenty years ago)

Incidentally, not many people realise that "no gay goings-on" was the law in Northern Ireland until the early 80s, at least 15 years after it was legalised in England, Scotland and Wales.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:23 (twenty years ago)

x post

And the right to sentence people to death, send them the case to the UK and have it commuted to life, yeah?

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

I'll celebrate by shaving my head, beefing up, and marching through the streets waving a union jack. I'll then stand outside my dads house and tell him to go back to where he came from.

― Rumpie (lil drummer girl parumpumpumpu), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

Forest, why am I not the slightest bit fucking surprised to find that out?

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

(FP, we had a whole nother thread about what comprised "Scandinavia" as an entity, and whether Iceland and Finland were included or not, so I was making a joke reference to that.)

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:26 (twenty years ago)

Heheheh.

(when the original legalisation law was passed, Northern Ireland still had its own parliament and government)

xpost: Sorry, Kate. I know we did. I am an incorrigible pedant, though.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:27 (twenty years ago)

Would we also get Greenland? And also, perhaps the Azores and Canaries?

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:28 (twenty years ago)

Sorry to drop yet more pedantry, Kate, but the Channel Islands are not part of the UK either. They are split into two bailiwicks, each of which is a British Crown Dependency.

― RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:29 (twenty years ago)

We've made a start with the Falklands, St Helena and Tristan da Cunha.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:31 (twenty years ago)

Bermuda is a North Atlantic Island, as well - oh wait, we've already got that.

Actually, if it doesn't even include all the bitty islands around Britain, the UK is a bit rubbish, isn't it?

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:31 (twenty years ago)

I thought St Helena sank?

― Sinister Oink Kingpin (noodle vague), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Don't forget, we annexed Rockall.

There are plenty of little bitty islands that *are* included - the Scillies, Orkney, Shetland, the Flannan Isles, North Rona, Sula Sgeir...

xpost: Nah, St Helena is still there. I think it was Tristan da Cunha that was evacuated in the 60s due to an eruption, but most of the residents moved back after a while.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:34 (twenty years ago)

Isn't St. Helena in the South Atlantic anyway? Ditto, Fawlkands?

(Sorry, I found St. Helena on my big World Map shower curtain the other day, and was surprised by how far away it, was, but I guess they were taking no chances with old Boney, eh? Where was Elba, anyway?)

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:41 (twenty years ago)

Elba's in the Med. Hence, why he got back to France so easily.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:42 (twenty years ago)

I have a friend from Douglas who describes the Isle of Man as "30,000 alcoholics clinging to a rock".

The CIA Factbook lists "dependent areas" of the UK as:

Anguilla, Bermuda, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Montserrat, Pitcairn Islands, Saint Helena & Ascension, South Georgia & the South Sandwich Islands, Turks & Caicos Islands .

Elba's in the Med, a short sail from Tuscany.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:43 (twenty years ago)

Whose stupid idea was to let him stay so *close* to France? St. Helena was a much better idea.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:44 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, they weren't going to make the same mistake twice.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:46 (twenty years ago)

Though just poisoning him was perhaps the best idea of all...

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:47 (twenty years ago)

... with wallpaper!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:53 (twenty years ago)

That'll teach him not to chew the scenery.

― Disciplining And Controlling My Mind (kate), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:53 (twenty years ago)

What's the most remote inhabited island on earth, in terms of distance from the next inhabited piece of land? Pitcairn?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Elba's in the Med. Hence, why he got back to France so easily.

Only a few hundred metres from the coast of Italy at that.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

http://www.diveworld.ch/ImgReise/Elba%20Karte%20gross.jpg

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 16 January 2006 13:58 (twenty years ago)

What's the most remote inhabited island on earth, in terms of distance from the next inhabited piece of land?

Tristan de Cunha, apparently.

http://users.erols.com/jcalder/SUPERLATIVESV2.html

― Johnny B Was Quizzical (Johnney B), Monday, 16 January 2006 14:02 (twenty years ago)

Easter Island

"Located 3600 km (2,237 statute miles) west of continental Chile and 2075 km (1290 statute miles) east of Pitcairn Island, it is the most isolated inhabited island in the world."

I know this because there was an article in the current issue of BEER, the official newspaper of the Campaign for Real Ale [is not joke].

xpost: Bah. Maybe not.

― Mike W (caek), Monday, 16 January 2006 14:03 (twenty years ago)

I wonder how the Ilois of Diego Garcia will celebrate

― beanz (beanz), Monday, 16 January 2006 14:15 (twenty years ago)

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