It's official: America loves gays

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Or at least are willing victims of brilliant marketing. TIME on the Brokeback phenom:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1151805-1,00.html

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:38 (twenty years ago)

How the West Comes

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:40 (twenty years ago)

Maybe once Stephen Harper's new government reverses all the Gay-Friendly Canadian Laws (aka the Charter of Rights & Freedoms), Canadian gays will start moving to the USA.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:40 (twenty years ago)

Ned, you're confusing gay jokes with sex jokes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:50 (twenty years ago)

Gays don't have sex.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:51 (twenty years ago)

They do, but that's not all they do.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Or I mean, at least make it a GAY sex joke.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:53 (twenty years ago)

haha new favorite word: troglodyte

― AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:55 (twenty years ago)

How the West Ced on America's Ts.

Wait, still not gay.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:55 (twenty years ago)

ANYWAY.

This is another article about Brokeback where a dude claims that he can't go see it by himself because it looks weird. I really don't understand this. Are straight guys afraid that people are going to suspect that they're secretly gay just by showing up?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:56 (twenty years ago)

In a word, yes.

Besides, Brokedull was only #5 at the b.o. this weekend! Y'all still hate us!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:57 (twenty years ago)

Larry David wrote that semi-funny column satirizing this attitude a few weeks ago.

(as a sidenote I'm lecturing on a Chekhov story whose plot points are remarkably similar to BBM's and I remarked on this in class. There were a few nervous chuckles – from the guys, of course. After class, one of them came up to me, rather gingerly, and asked, "So, it's a good movie? I should go see it?")

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 17:59 (twenty years ago)

It'll probably make as much money as Million Dollar Baby.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:00 (twenty years ago)

When I was like 15, I went to see, um, what was it called? The Living End at a local art house theatre, by myself. I went because I read a review that called it "a gay, post-punk Thelma & Louise", and all that popped out to me was the word PUNK, which held a lot of sway when I was 15. It wasn't until after the movie ended (it was way more gay than punk) and I looked around the theatre until I realized...I don't know what I realized. I didn't feel that weirded out, I just, um, figured, hey, none of those other dudes have girlfriends either!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:00 (twenty years ago)

I think I convinced a straight guy I was flirting with in a chat room to go see Brokeback. I had to assure him that the sex wasn't all that explicit, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:04 (twenty years ago)

I'm pretty I'll eventually watch it with my dad. He's a big Annie Proulx/Larry McMurtry fan and got me reading them. My mom only likes singing cowboys and movies with happy endings, so my dad and I generallly watch downer flicks together.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

I am pretty, but I'm also pretty SURE I'll watch BBM with my dad.

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Of course the movie was marketed toward women. My half-assed joke theory =

- Straight men like watching femme fake-lesbians get it on, because it involves women exhibiting what's perceived as the same lust for the female body straight men experience. This depends on pretending the lesbian desire is strictly sexual and supercedes emotional connection and vulnerability and such.

- Straight women like watching butch fake-gay men fall in love because it involves men exhibiting the kinds of emotional connections and vulnerabilities straight women crave from them. This depends on pretending the gay desire is curiously non-sexual and transcends the everday body-lust that straight women are the objects of.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Er, what's the punchline?

― Dan ("It's Drivin' Me Nuts!") Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

The joke part is just in the vast inaccurate generalizations there! But insofar as it's sometimes true, it amuses me just on the face of it. Because it's kinda based on pretending gay people are straight. Like straight guys want to imagine hot girls making out with each other because they're kinky (because girls fall in love with guys, see, so if they're making out it's just cause they nasty). And then straight guys want to imagine hot guys having relationships with each other because they're noble and loving (because guys want to fuck chicks, see, so if they love each other it's pure and beautiful). But then of course oops, wait: they're gay!

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:35 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, that latter part should obviously be that straight girls want to imagine hot-guy relationships like that.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:36 (twenty years ago)

I was hoping for "We're the aristocrats!"

― Dan (Oh Well) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Not all

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1692548,00.html

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)

"Oops, wait, they're gay!" is a pretty funny joke though.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)

"Brokeblack Mountain"

― Dan (ROFFLE) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:39 (twenty years ago)

from that guardian article, this is so dumb:

McGreevey is white; Plummer is black. Although McGreevey was a public official, his transgression was generally regarded as a personal flaw. Although Plummer was a private citizen, his infidelity was regarded as part of a public health crisis. McGreevey's infidelity drew a mixture of contempt and pity; Plummer's betrayal fed a moral panic. McGreevey was being unfaithful; Plummer was on the "down-low".

yes, the people of new jersey just went "ho hum" about mcgreevey, sure.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

I had the same reaction to that paragraph. On what is he basing those conclusions?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 18:43 (twenty years ago)

That graph makes some big weird leaps. The idea would be generally plausible, except that it mixes up a whole bunch of different audiences. A whole lot of the real vehement disapproval of black bisexuality (on the down low or not) comes from inside the black community, where you have a different set of attitudes toward homosexuality, and then even there it's mixed up with a whole bunch of other concerns about AIDS and family structures and such. And then views of it from outside the community are going to be wound up in a bunch of possibly paternalistic or even racist ideas about, well, AIDS and family structures and stuff. There are maybe too many audiences and issues to imagine there's a single audience enforcing some double standard.

That said, the notion's right -- the stuff approached with compassion in Brokeback is stuff being called out as a horrible trend elsewhere. And the obvious difference is that one's dramatizing a specific case, while the other is some nebulous "trend." And disapproval or not, for some people the prescription for both of those things is the same -- to marry right in the first place. It's not contradictory to dislike an abstract trend of infidelities but have compassionate feelings toward invidivual instances of people experiencing them.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:15 (twenty years ago)

Alfred, what's the title of the Chekhov story?

It'll probably make as much money as Million Dollar Baby.

Perhaps (tho $100M domestically. I'm not so sure)... another competently made, dreadfully familiar genre film with a gender switch that gives it political 'importance.'

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:30 (twenty years ago)

the political importance in mdb came from the plug pull right? i don't think anyone in america finds the idea of girls playing sports 'mindblowing' or 'radical' anymore (morbs excepted obv).

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:33 (twenty years ago)

yes, the plug pull (get back to that Living Will blunty).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:36 (twenty years ago)

did the plug pull switch her gender???

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:38 (twenty years ago)

It's been known to happen.

Morb: Chekhov's "The Lady with the Little Dog"

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:40 (twenty years ago)

I'm still utterly uninterested in this movie.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Nice jpeg here showing how Fox's discomfort at the film fed into its reporting and predictions, which were unfounded.

http://boneyboy.antville.org/static/boneyboy/images/foxnews%20on%20brokeback.gif

― beaux knee (boney), Monday, 23 January 2006 19:52 (twenty years ago)

such nice writing in that last paragraph

― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:02 (twenty years ago)

The question that resurfaced when I saw the thread title: Are there any famous homosexuals in America that are do not have their sexuality as part of their fame? An equivalent of Elton John/Will Young/Graham Norton?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Okay, apart from Tom Cruise.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Anderson Cooper?

― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:07 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Liberacerings.jpg

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:08 (twenty years ago)

famous homosexuals in America that are do not have their sexuality as part of their fame

what does this mean? people whose homosexuality is famous but whose fame is not predicated in part upon their homosexuality? and does it assume that they're sexuality has been open since the beginning of their fame?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

What does that mean, not having their sexuality as part of their fame? I mean, I guess John Waters has his sexuality as part of his fame, but does Todd Haynes? Ellen Degeneres does, but Paula Poundstone maybe less so?

xpost

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

I really want to read this "Brokeback Mountain Micheal Jackson Holiday Poem".

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.madle.org/liberace.JPG

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:09 (twenty years ago)

On the other hand, Elton John qualifies as not having his sexuality be part of his fame?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

What about RuPaul's closet heterosexuality, does that count?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Anderson Cooper isn't any further 'out' than Kevin Spacey, is he?

Waters and Haynes both make 'gay movies,' at least most of the time, or at least on the way to winning what fame they possess.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Are there any American celebrities whose sexuality is not part of their fame (aside from Dennis Franz)?

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:11 (twenty years ago)

Shawn Alexander?

xpost

― Jimmy Mod (I myself am lethal at 100 -110dB) (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh yes. I went there.

― Jimmy Mod (I myself am lethal at 100 -110dB) (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 23 January 2006 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 72 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

he was on Leno a few nights back and was near-unwatchable due to fidgeting. is he always like htat?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 23 January 2006 22:58 (twenty years ago)

he just cain't quit fidgeting

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 22:59 (twenty years ago)

Gyllenhaal as usual is the sassy one:

OPRAH (to Ledger and Williams): How'd you guys fall in love?

JAKE (interrupting): Here's how it happened: Heath and I made out, Michelle got pregnant.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:02 (twenty years ago)

i hear anne's feisty in the movie and michelle just lies there? confirm/deny? also conflicting reports re: hathaway - 'she's nekkid' vs. (the daunting) 'she topless for like a second' - settle debate plz. also how ridiculous is the 'many years later' makeup? ridiculous enough? is there any crying in this movie? by dudes? heath ledger: actor? really?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:05 (twenty years ago)

Blount, fer chrissakes, YE IGNORANT HETERO.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:07 (twenty years ago)

also how ridiculous is the 'many years later' makeup?

pretty ridiculous

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:07 (twenty years ago)

Feisty: do you mean in bed? Her character is more feisty, that's for sure.

She's topless for like a second.

And her makeup is not aging makeup as much as it's "rich Dallas socialite" makeup. Thankfully, the movie didn't go all Jennifer-Garner-in-A Beautiful Mind.

There are tears shed.

And Ledger is good.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:08 (twenty years ago)

oh, man, if only I'd known this was Oprah's Gay Special, I'd have watched this afternoon.

Hathway doesn't really get any aging makeup. They just put her in a bad blonde wig with some bright red lipstick.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

see milo knows what i'm looking for

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:09 (twenty years ago)

Damn straight.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:10 (twenty years ago)

Williams and Ledger have one medium-to-hot sex scene, Hathaway and Gyllenhaal have one hot-to-spicy scene climaxing (ahem) with a shot of her impressive cleavage.

I'm the only one on this thread who's seen the movie who will defend both Gyllie's old age makeup and his petulant kiss-off scene, so I'm obviously no authority.

And, yes, Ledger's fairly great. I was more aware of this on my second viewing this weekend, how convincingly in the later scenes he showed a man imploding, subsisting on Marlboro Reds and Bud.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:10 (twenty years ago)

The "Oprah" episode hasn't aired yet.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:11 (twenty years ago)

when's it on?

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:11 (twenty years ago)

you don't even know

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:13 (twenty years ago)

I really didn't think the Ledger/Williams sex scene was hott. The breast shot is longer than one second and it's well lit though. Actually, Williams sex scene with Cloe Svigney is probably always going to be her gold standard for hottness (and as a bonus, Ellen's boobs in the same movie!)

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:17 (twenty years ago)

It's official: Don loves lesbians AND gays.

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:18 (twenty years ago)

also, Hathaway in her red lipstick

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/gofugyourself/GFY112005/56605378.jpg

― don weiner (don weiner), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:19 (twenty years ago)

I really didn't think the Ledger/Williams sex scene was hott.

Well, in life, as in art, I'm a sucker for unexpected domestic sex.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:20 (twenty years ago)

* cue 'diary of horace wimp' *

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:23 (twenty years ago)

is she supposed to look like Ronald McDonald?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:28 (twenty years ago)

she's definitely a burger

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:28 (twenty years ago)

< / cockroach >

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:28 (twenty years ago)

Because I think this has something to do with why Anthony and others would say the film's not about "gay" cowboys.

Well, "gay" implies more than (or other than, even) man-on-man action. Ancient Athenians might have had their homosexual pinings and whatnot but they were nothing like what we'd think of when we think of gay. Same seems to be the case with these fictional cowboys.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:29 (twenty years ago)

Well, for ancient Athenians (and Montaigne's too) a deep male-male relationship consisted of soul meeting soul in harmony, with a little head and anal love once in a while (this is not in Montaigne).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 23 January 2006 23:34 (twenty years ago)

Well, "gay" implies more than (or other than, even) man-on-man action.

So if I have no use for gay culture, but exclusively fuck dudes (and don't try to hide that fact), how would you suggest I identify?

― cheshycat (chëshy f cat), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 00:19 (twenty years ago)

cheshycat

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 00:25 (twenty years ago)

good answer!

― cheshy f cät (chëshy f cat), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 00:28 (twenty years ago)

Wait, Paul Lynde was GAY?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 01:18 (twenty years ago)

via DRUDGE -

BUSH: NO 'BROKEBACK'
Mon Jan 23 2006 17:09:44 ET

President Bush has so far skipped BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN -- the Hollywood hit about two homosexual cowboys.

During a Q&A session at Kansas State University today, a student asked Bush: "I was just wanting to get your opinion on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN if you'd seen it yet."

The crowd laughed softly before the student said loudly: "You would love it! You should check it out."

"I haven't seen it," Bush said flatly. "I'd be glad to talk about ranching, but I haven't seen the movie," he said to laughter. "I've heard about it."

The president waited a second or two, then said, according to a transcript: "I hope you go -- (laughter) -- you know -- (laughter) -- I hope you go back to the ranch and the farm, is what I was about to say. I haven't seen it. (Laughter, applause.)"

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 01:29 (twenty years ago)

vid of the event

― kingfish kuribo's shoe (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 01:44 (twenty years ago)

alfred's right - heath and michelle are sitting next to each other! how consummately heterosexual! and heath's wearing gel - WE GET IT, YOU'RE STRAIGHT. god next they'll have a kid, just cuz it's 'straight'.

They do have a kid. Ain't they cute?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 04:06 (twenty years ago)

Here's a trailer for the "Oprah" special:

http://www.youtube.com/w/BBM-Cast-coming-to-Oprah%21?v=6fO-0yCFj2k&search=brokeback

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 04:09 (twenty years ago)

Why are you so obsessed with this Oprah appearance??

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 05:28 (twenty years ago)

I mean, Oprah?? Call me when they're on Springer.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 05:29 (twenty years ago)

Nah, O'Reilly.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 05:29 (twenty years ago)

http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/0/04/7HAE2QLZJ22TRUBL7E7W5ADO6VV6W7AR.jpg

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 05:35 (twenty years ago)

Bwaha!

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Straight women like watching butch fake-gay men fall in love because it involves men exhibiting the kinds of emotional connections and vulnerabilities straight women crave from them.
It may be that I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd, but most of the women that I know who are turned on by gay men are into hardcore porn. Most were disappointed that the movie did not feature more graphic/kinky sex, among other things.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 06:04 (twenty years ago)

I figure the phenom is also femme-powered in a Kirk/Spock, Spike/Angel sorta way.

― Ian in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 06:30 (twenty years ago)

Now I'm imagining Spock bucking broncos.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 06:35 (twenty years ago)

-- Andrew Farrell (afarrel...), January 23rd, 2006.

I still can't figure this out. Are you sying being gay isn't a big part f those three people's careers?

Probably for Will Young it's least important, although it was a nice filip to his career immediately after he won that talent show, when the media would otherwise have been losing interest.

But Elton John? Surely that's what he's most famous for, even above piano playing by now? He must have had hundreds of fromt pages about his various shags.

And Graham Norton? His whole TV personality is about how camp he is.
You can't watch him for 10 seconds without realising he's playing it up.

(Camp doesn't always equal gay, I know.)

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 12:44 (twenty years ago)

Elton John may be famous for being gay now, but he only started admitting his gayness in the media pretty late in the day. Late eighties or early nineties I'm guessing, even though his career stretches back to the late sixties. He even married a woman, for God's sake! Yes, he was always camp, but Britain has a long tradition of camp entertainers who are by no means necessarily gay.

― John RT, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 13:16 (twenty years ago)

What Gyllenhaal aging makeup? All I saw was a funny mustache.

BBM's mediocrity is forgiven, as I saw the infinitely more 'evolved' but inept Happy Endings last night. Yikes.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 14:29 (twenty years ago)

America loves gays but hates gay sex (unless it involves vaginas).

― Dan (Obvious) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 15:00 (twenty years ago)

So if, say, Graham Norton and Elton John killed, skinned and wore, say, Paris Hilton and Paris Latsis then got it on, that'd be okay?

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:21 (twenty years ago)

What Gyllenhaal aging makeup? All I saw was a funny mustache.
BBM's mediocrity is forgiven, as I saw the infinitely more 'evolved' but inept Happy Endings last night

Jeez. I almost rented Happy Endings last night until its length forced me to re-rent Lost in America instead.

Gilly's makeup: in his last scene you can see salt-and-pepper hair beneath his hat, and he did wear a fake paunch.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:25 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, that's probably in bad tatse, I was getting carried away after reading a very confusing Paris Hilton thread.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:25 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

McKellen sez H'wood 'fraid o' gays

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 13 February 2006 17:35 (twenty years ago)

But the film industry was still reluctant to cast an openly gay man in a leading role, he said.

The same was not true on Broadway, where people were "very at ease with being open and honest".

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 13 February 2006 17:39 (twenty years ago)

Taking futures in fag ventures is perilous at best.

― Nigger With No Money (Nigger With No Money), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:57 (twenty years ago)

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