Shooting in downtown Seattle synagogue - one dead, all victims women

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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279302_shooting28ww.html

It was the work of an ostensibly Muslim American man. He came and said, paraphrased, "I'm a Muslim American and I am angry at Isreal!" as he started shooting... not proof, but clear inference. Investigation is still pending.

I realize this is a spit in the ocean even compared to the recent massacre at the raver afterparty house, much less what's going on in the Middle East right now. But hitting so close to home, and at a building I pass by everyday to get home on my final connecting bus, I'm not dealing with this incredibly well.

Thankfully, this man acted alone, and spokespeople from Seattle based Muslim and Jewish institutions both condemned the man's actions.

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Saturday, 29 July 2006 04:29 (nineteen years ago)

I wish I could have posted this earlier, but between this and and a biker protest tonight, downtown was in chaos, and all the buses were rerouted to wherever the fuck they went, because all the buses I need are on the very street where the crime took place.. so I had to walk home, taking a break in between in lower Queen Anne. Anyway, just got home from work now.

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Saturday, 29 July 2006 04:32 (nineteen years ago)

it's a shame, but there are always going to be stray, misguided lunatics. shooting up a seattle synagogue full of american jews isn't going to change anything in israel.

― gothic Buddhist meets Old Hollywood (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 29 July 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

I love humans oh so much.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 July 2006 05:25 (nineteen years ago)

Here's as much you ever wanted to know about Naveed Haq..

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=45119

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:08 (nineteen years ago)

And stories about the one victim that died, Pamela Waechter...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003166062_webfuneral31.html

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:09 (nineteen years ago)

also http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003164328_waechterfamily31m.html

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:11 (nineteen years ago)

That Haq article is fascinating.

― starke (starke), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

Always fab to have another murderer from your general area!

― ALLAH FROG (Mingus Dew), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279424_convert30ww.html

― gbx (skowly), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 04:43 (nineteen years ago)

I don't mean to offend at all, but how does it matter that all victims are women? Is that somehow worse?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 05:46 (nineteen years ago)

Naveed worked where I do. Though I didn't work with him or know him, my immediate manager hired him. Everyone in the engineering dept. was distraught yesterday, wondering if there would have been anything they could have done to prevent this, to spot that he would do something so horrific.

― Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

I don't mean to offend at all, but how does it matter that all victims are women? Is that somehow worse?

-- Tuomas (lixnix...), July 31st, 2006.

Um, maybe I expected this statistic to be paraded around Europe moreso, but do you not realize how much more domestic and non-domestic violence in the U.S. is committed against women than men, but isn't reported as often?

My point in mentioning this was just to initially underscore this phenomenon. However, it turns out the shooter had actual issues preventing him from having a girlfriend of any kind, which not only makes more sense, but makes this more heinous, IMHO.

Obviously, it's atrocious either way, but if you're insinuating the "all victims were women" part was superfluous... dude, wtfuckingf!

― dottie nuttie dach nach dtnt hhhhhhhh (donut), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

I don't mean to offend at all, but how does it matter that most Holocaust victims were Jews? Is that somehow worse?

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

while this guy obviously had women problems, i don't see clearly that he sought to take vengeance on women. did he know the number and gender proportion of people who worked at the jewish center? the muslim-vengeance thing appears to have come out of left-field, but is it more likely that it was a cover for his real motive or that he went non-specifically nuts?

i also don't see what domestic violence has to do with this case, which clearly is not an instance of domestic violence. do murders of women go more unreported than murders of men?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

>I don't mean to offend at all, but how does it matter that
>all victims are women? Is that somehow worse?
>Tuomas

Of course. Society sees men as the traditional protectors
of women and children. Or was it a rhetorical question?

I really don't see anything wrong with this protective
instinct, as long as it isn't also possessive or restrictive.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

A good rule of thumb: if you have to say "I don't mean
to offend anyone..." you probably do.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 00:54 (nineteen years ago)

do you not realize how much more domestic and non-domestic violence in the U.S. is committed against women than men, but isn't reported as often?

Actually, more men than women are victims of violent crime, at least according to DOJ statistics:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/vsxtab.htm

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

Crap, that was supposed to be:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vsx.gif

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:44 (nineteen years ago)

do one for gender of perp now

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:45 (nineteen years ago)

So I think we should hold off and wait for more information about the killer's motivations before calling this a repeat of the Marc Lepine mass murder in Montreal (which, by contrast, was totally gender-related and all the more heinous because of it).

xpost Oh, men would certainly be way higher in that percentage. If you want, I'll check though...

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:48 (nineteen years ago)

The best I can find at the moment is this:

Women comprise a small minority of all convicted criminals, constituting around 15 per cent of convicted criminals in most of the ECE countries according to 1996/1998 figures. While women are more likely to commit non-violent crimes, such as theft and economic crimes (such as cheque forgery and illegal credit card use), or resort to violence in self-defence, men commit the majority of violent crimes, according to the Fourth UN Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1986-1990) referred to in Women and Men in Europe and North America (2000).

In most ECE countries, fewer than 1 in 10 assaults are committed by women, as said by the same report. For both women and men in most countries, convictions for assault, i.e. physical attack, comprise less than 20 per cent of all convictions, with few exceptions. The most violent crime, homicide, is one of the rarest crimes committed by both men and women. In general, close to 90 per cent of all homicides are committed by men, with the exception of Canada, Hungary, Latvia and the United States, where women account for between 14 and 23 per cent, according to official figures from 1980, 1990, and 1998.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:51 (nineteen years ago)

you're making a non-sequitur, in response to a non-sequitur

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 02:54 (nineteen years ago)

Who is, and how so? (NB I'd really rather not have this turn into an "Are men the devil, or are they not?" thread.)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 03:10 (nineteen years ago)

Of course. Society sees men as the traditional protectors
of women and children. Or was it a rhetorical question?

I really don't see anything wrong with this protective
instinct, as long as it isn't also possessive or restrictive.
[about a million line breaks deleted]
-- Squirrel_Police (goblinatri...), August 1st, 2006 9:53 PM. (Squirrel_Police) (later) (link)

...........

uh what.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Not that this is the right thread for this discussion, but sure it's fine -- if you take the gender out completely: people [are] the traditional protectors of people. Thank you. Protests of imbalance of size and strength will have to go in some other thread.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

only Momus can improve this conversation

― kingfish cyclopean ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

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