"are you annoyed at me"

"Look, we know it's a thing, we're both kind of assholes, we aren't going to talk about it in great and personal detail because that's for hippies and people in therapy, and scoring points off each other on not-terribly-important matters is satisfying and enjoyable."

not messing, you really have nailed the basics i think.

we aren't going to talk about it in great and personal detail because that's for hippies and people in therapy
sweet mother of pearl
yes

my boyfriend and i do a lot of "processing," we're practically lesbians in that regard tbh

"Look, we know it's a thing, we're both kind of assholes, we aren't going to talk about it in great and personal detail because that's for hippies and people in therapy, and scoring points off each other on not-terribly-important matters is satisfying and enjoyable."

For people who like to do this, would saying the above in so many words risk taking the fun out of future zinging?

Ha, Jeff and I had many, many awesome fights not about the actual words, but about tone.

― she is writing about love (Jenny), Monday, September 28, 2009 11:54 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

unquestionably the best kind of fight, basically a grown up version of accusing someone who says "im sorry" of "not meaning it"

xp oh, you absolutely can't acknowledge this, it spoils it.

laurel i think those are decent ground rules -- companionable bickering is pretty natural in many relationships but if your partner zings u and it really actually really hurts you gotta be frank and just say so!

or go post about it

I'm afraid I will be the zinger, tbh. I hold back b/c I'm not sure what will hurt too much, and then I get slapped w something that makes me really mad because I'm letting the other party get away with murder already (in my mind).

Right now I am struggling w someone (non-romantic) because the things that're bothering me & that I want to bicker about are going to undermine her confidence and be the exact issues she fears. Basically I think her fears are true and well-founded and could she please get her shit together before I lose my mind, and that takes them out of bickering territory.

is this person a friend or family member? that could make a huge difference.

I'm not one for convivial bickering, but I think it's a real bad idea to "zing" someone, whatever their relationship to you, about something that you seriously think is an issue. Usually those end up coming across less like "zings" and more like "STABS IN THE GUT."

Ugh, regretted that immediately.

it's hard. in your mind you think you're sort of, 'helping' by pointing out all these hometruths to the person, that it will set them on their way to becoming less annoying. but more often than not, it just tears a big hole in their confidence, because all that you hear if someone says those things to you is SEE LOOK HOW CRAP YOU ARE. Even if that's not what's meant by it. So it's a matter of how close the person is to you, and if you want them scampering away an possibly never talking to you again. Or getting REALLY freaking mad and sending some hometruths your way.

Been there, done that.

Actually the above pretty much describes my relationship with my Mum. Sometimes I just HAVE to tell her...and then she tells me back. Then one of us hangs up the phone. Then a week later we apologise and we go back to the beginning where we make small talk. It's not exactly healthy, but I figure actually getting it out is better than swallowing it.

also seeing the other person's shortcomings as his/her problem rather than a thorn in your butt would help frame the issue better.

"i find your low self esteem extremely aggravating" is not going to go over well, unless you want to hear something similarly leathery.

One of my girl friends phrases this as, "No blaming, even if you really want to poke them in the eye."

But there's never really a good way to frame a statement that says, in effect, 'This is what I don't like about you.'

"YOU ARE BAD AT LIFE"

i really should not be on this thread, but, lol relationships

I feel like a little bickering goes on in my current relationship but its pretty much all on my side - and this pisses me off, because I know I'm not at all a bickery/naggy person when *I'm with the right personality*. My last partner - we never ever bickered, fought, raised our voices, disagreed, or got upset at each other. We talked all the time - aimiably, enjoyably, as something we just liked doing.

My current partner is passive quiet and reserved - a lot quieter and less talkative than me. I'm not used to it and I find myself asking him whats the matter quite often simply because he will come home, sit down, and start doing something (interwebbing or whatever) without so much as a hello let alone a smile. Apparently thats just how he is though, and it's been difficult to "read" sometimes. sigh.

sounds like your boyf is a clone of my husband! :)
I am still figuring it out. I'm naturally talkative, I talk even when I don't need to...and hub will talk when there's *something to say*. Not a miser with words per se, but he doesn't waste them. I found myself for a long time trying to THINK of things to talk to him about, because it would be what felt like unnaturally quiet when we were driving, or whatever. But forcing him into conversation would be worse because he'd resent being made to talk, which would lead to a snarky answer, which would lead to...bickering. And I would get on his case about his tone of voice...but then it all came from him not talking in the force place, and me forcing him into it.

Bler. Anyway. There's no easy answer, I don't think I've found it yet. But I have found myself noticing people's tendency to talk away silence, and that being around my husband has taught me that it's kind of cool to be able to REALLY talk when important things come up, when things that are worth talking about actually happen, and that unlike my weird chatty coworkers I don't have to talk all the time to be happy.

But a quiet spy-like spouse takes a lot of getting used to. I don't know if it ever gets "easy"

"not talking in the force place" should read "not talking in the FIRST place"...lol

But you do find yourself questioning the 'healthiness' of your relationship by the simple fact that you're both not talking the day/evening away. You remember past relationships or see other couples who are totally chatty and you think 'Are we weird? Are we not right together? Why aren't we like that?" It's weird. Because I can't imagine being with anyone else more perfect for me.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with all of that :)

and could have said it all in about 2 sentences. curse my longwindedness :)

Hahah. Its funny actually, I curse my mother for being such an endless blabbermouth, and yet I'm just as bad, haw.

My dad has been henpecked into silence by my, well, aggressive mother. I always thought me turning into my mum was pigs might fly stuff. It's incredibly difficult for a woman NOT to turn into her mother once you're married. Luckily Clay knows when I'm getting too big for my britches :)

he will come home, sit down, and start doing something (interwebbing or whatever) without so much as a hello let alone a smile

See, I don't think that's okay. It's not like he has to come in and stare raptly into your eyes while you recount the minutiae of your day, but I think it is completely reasonable to ask him to say hello to you when he comes in the door. Then he can sit on the computer and be quiet and whatever without you worrying if there is something wrong, because he did you the small respectful gesture of saying hello to you when he came home. It's win-win: you feel valued and acknowledged and he feels like he has space for himself.

OH, I'm making him sound terrible - he's not! Usually he will say hey and flop about going 'blargh work sucked' or randomly mention something that he saw/did. And we do talk! Hes just frequently quiet and I have to learn not to say "whats wrong? Whats wrong" whenever he goes silent for 5 minutes haha :/

This isn't really apropo of anything but I learned that onlookers don't always 'get' me and my husband. Anyone who knows us knows we are super tight and great mates, but...I learned a while back that a co-worker suspected that Mr Veg was abusive towards me! That was a whole lot of WTF. All because she observed us together at a work function and she saw that any time he was standing near me, or walked by me, that he would poke me. The thing is, that's what we do. If we haven't seen each other all day, or if we've been on opposite sides of the room, we give a little poke, like "Hey whats up I missed you." Or lean a shoulder in, or gently give a little kick, no big deal. Not like "GRR! YOU'RE SO ANNOYING! STOP DOING THAT THING i HATE THAT YOU DO." I was a little dismayed that someone would interpret us so wrongly. Then again she's a silly bint so it doesn't surprise me.

Haha if people had overseen me and my last bf N together they would have come away thinking we were both mildly retarded, I suspect.

Glad we're not under 24 hour surveillance. Onlookers would be like wtf is rong with these two.

I'm not one for convivial bickering, but I think it's a real bad idea to "zing" someone, whatever their relationship to you, about something that you seriously think is an issue. Usually those end up coming across less like "zings" and more like "STABS IN THE GUT."

This has been a problem I've had in relationships -- I generally fight to win, but winning in this case is a serious pyrrhic victory. It's been hard learning to pull punches.

Naw, Trayce, I don't think you made him sound terrible, or that it sounded like you don't talk! That's kind of a thing for me - say hello when you come in, say goodbye when you leave, etc., and it took me a few years to be able to articulate that I needed those little social fripperies and recognize how important they were to me. So in other words, I was projecting some there!

All good! And I should point out I totally <3 my guy loads, he's adorable and crazy talented... but as Sunny said once, lol musicians =)

xpost Sarahel: LOL. Learning to squash some of my "HA! SEE? IT *WAS* YOUR FAULT! IN YOUR FACE!!!" instinct is a very difficult lesson indeed.

and the: "Here's why I was right, for future reference" dissertation. Very difficult to quell.

especially if you've been in the habit of doing this for over half your life.

I feel you.

oh I cant bear to be right when I disagree with someone :/ Its a stupid thing, but even though I want to correct a person, I'll always immediately undermine it with "at least thats what I heard" or "I *think*... maybe I'm wrong!" because I hate it when I contradict someone I like/respect and they look at me like "aw what, you're patronising me!". Maybe its the tone in my voice.

My thing is I go into my "Ha! In Your Face" rant first, without even thinking...and then I have to find a way to stumble out of it once I realise that I'm being a total dick. I tend to back down if face with immediate and loud opposition though, since I don't like shouting matches. I like my own loud sermons, uninterrupted :)

xp - see, I have had to condition myself to feel this way ...I think I also sometimes have this confrontational or domineering tone of voice such that when I ask simple questions, it isn't interpreted as I intended, "What are you doing?" but rather, "What the fuck are you doing that for?"

I just initiated an argument about how voicemail is like electricity and running water and he should embrace the modern world and leave me a freaking message when he calls, because any other way lies irritation and hurt feelings. Namely, mine. He asked me to call him later so we can "discuss" it in more detail. Okay it wasn't much of an argument, it was more just me being annoying. But...baby steps, right?

good for you.

I can't date anyone I have to be nice to, because then I feel like I have to be nice all the time and it ruins things. Unfortunately I'm not sure I have the chops to deal w someone who is possibly a lot meaner than I am. But I'm trying.

the bf and I have been together almost 11 years, and have worked through a lot of things, though the constant challenge is that I'm a venter and he's a "bottler" -- in that there are times I'm completely unaware that I've been doing things to piss him off until he finally snaps, and the awareness is painful.

Really? Are you sorry when that happens? I mean, sorry that you've been doing those things? He must have a way of snapping that isn't too scary or destructive, or else obv you'd have a whole different reaction?

no he's not destructive or abusive (i had an ex that was), but I am sincerely sorry. Because he doesn't say anything at the time, I often assume that it doesn't bother him.

I'm a bottler. But I'm getting better at actually saying when something bugs me right away, than just storing it away. Hub is, well... I guess logical is the best way to describe him. If the argument veers of into the stratosphere by getting overly emotional about stuff that maybe doesn't matter as much as I think it does, he'll bring it back down to earth. Which I don't always love because sometimes I just want him to get upset too. But the thing is, he doesn't see that there's anything to respond to, because I'm being a) emotional b) irrational or c) some combination of the two. So I'm getting better at checking my tone before I 'start' something. But I grew up in a house where Mum just threw things at Dad if he didn't talk to her so it's been a difficult lesson to learn.