it takes a religious studies professor to remind us all that the real culprit here is the rising tide of equality and the diminishing value inherent in classical notions of masculinity. if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.
this is misplaced condemnation couched (clumsily) in the language of social critique and serves only to make clear how out of touch the author is
― building a desert (art), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 13:19 (nine years ago) link
if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.
Yes, in the home, where it belongs.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 13:22 (nine years ago) link
it takes a religious studies professor to remind us all that the real culprit here is the rising tide of equality and the diminishing value inherent in classical notions of masculinity. if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.― building a desert (art), Wednesday, June 4, 2014
― building a desert (art), Wednesday, June 4, 2014
i must not have read the article closely enough, if this is the point he was making.
― Daniel, Esq 2, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 16:44 (nine years ago) link
do try again
― mattresslessness, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 16:49 (nine years ago) link
There's a social background to every murderer, but there is also the murderer himself in particular
― cardamon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 18:57 (nine years ago) link
Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy
― cardamon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 18:58 (nine years ago) link
why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 18:59 (nine years ago) link
xp A bit like saying Charles Manson happened because of the 60s
― cardamon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 18:59 (nine years ago) link
Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy completely wrong and fucked-up
― marcos, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 19:04 (nine years ago) link
feminism and equality man, they're just the omelet
― Nhex, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 19:07 (nine years ago) link
Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy― cardamon, Wednesday, June 4, 2014 1:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― cardamon, Wednesday, June 4, 2014 1:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes, esp. since the whole culture seems to have produced very very few killers of this nature. that's something people who write hasty think-pieces often forget.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 23:51 (nine years ago) link
in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events
the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 23:52 (nine years ago) link
Or a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.
― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, 5 June 2014 04:26 (nine years ago) link
― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:51 PM (6 hours ago)
also, esp, since misogyny and misogynist violence/murder are hardly some novel product of the modern era.
― riot grillz (contenderizer), Thursday, 5 June 2014 06:38 (nine years ago) link
Something going down in Canada now, 24 yo man in camo has killed 3 Mounties and is still on the loose.
http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/national/details.asp?c=62755
― nickn, Thursday, 5 June 2014 06:48 (nine years ago) link
why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meetingOr a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:26 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:26 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it'd be dismissed as "false flag" by the crazies as soon as it happened.
― it definitely wasn't designed to be a pants pocket player (stevie), Thursday, 5 June 2014 08:06 (nine years ago) link
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27709530
― can't shtup the music (brownie), Thursday, 5 June 2014 12:02 (nine years ago) link
― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Seriously, stop talking.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 5 June 2014 12:42 (nine years ago) link
we have a difficult time thinking about how culture dictates behavior on the individual level because we dont have a clear grasp of causal relationships that are neither necessary nor arbitrary.
that's what's so clever about the NRA/right-wing fixation on "mental illness," which amounts to "this is an issue with this particular individual and doesn't speak to societal problems." then of course they talk out the other side of their mouth and affirm a crisis of masculinity or the like.
― ryan, Thursday, 5 June 2014 14:37 (nine years ago) link
24-year-old Megadeth-quoting Rambo wannabe on the run in New Brunswick after shooting 5 cops, 3 dead.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/06/05/justin_bourque_wanted_to_go_out_with_a_bang_report.html
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:02 (nine years ago) link
― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, 5 June 2014 04:26 (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:04 (nine years ago) link
oops sorry was going to say 2 Fort Hood shootings kind of did that already, didn't seem to slow down the "if everybody was armed" argument
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:05 (nine years ago) link
I would be bummed if it happened at a gun fair, loads of children/families there. but a meeting of NRA brass is kind of guaranteed to be 100% assholes
xp
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:06 (nine years ago) link
im not sure this is a productive discussion
― ryan, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:07 (nine years ago) link
Most gun shows, quite reasonably, require you to unload any weapons on entering. Why, it's almost as if they know that a roomful of testosterone addicts with loaded guns is likely to lead to trouble!
See, e.g. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/11/1435631/gun-show-safety/
and
http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/faqs.php
― Disagree. And im not into firey solos chief. (Phil D.), Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
xpost yeah that was kinda my pointI'm cool with no mass shootings, even ones in ironic locations
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
The dumb accidental shootings that happen at those things are bad enough
― Nhex, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
oh was there a productive conversation discussion happening here, I hadn't noticed
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:13 (nine years ago) link
maybe fantasize about mass murder in another thread?
― ryan, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:14 (nine years ago) link
i thought it was okay for people to die if they like guns
― macklin' rosie (crüt), Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:17 (nine years ago) link
this is all just idle chatter, but let's not pretend that any of us are gonna cry any tears over the grave of Wayne LaPierre. maybe milo z.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 16:22 (nine years ago) link
ban megadeth
― dn/ac (darraghmac), Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:13 (nine years ago) link
shakey, go fuck yourself.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:25 (nine years ago) link
i know being callous about the dead is kind of your thing but your idle chatter in this instance is pretty fucking abhorrent
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:29 (nine years ago) link
what dead am I being callous about
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:34 (nine years ago) link
think you are misreading me
fwiw I do think it's sad that this recent thread revive has been dominated by exactly the kind of debate the NRA would like everyone to be having, i.e., in depth discussions of mental health issues/culture of violence etc instead of the actually centrally important issue, which is gun control. and then I make some offhand comments about how it would be maybe preferable if Wayne LaPierre and co., who I basically consider mass murderers at this point, were victims of their own policies and I'm the bad guy. ok.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:37 (nine years ago) link
this guy has a point guys
― famous instagram God (waterface), Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:38 (nine years ago) link
makes you think
― djenter the dragon? (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:57 (nine years ago) link
I'm expecting a lot of sneering from NRA type about "See Canada has gun control and mass killings too!" coming up now
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 17:58 (nine years ago) link
killer's FB page is full of gun nut shit btw: https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682?fref=ts
― Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 18:03 (nine years ago) link
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:42 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
if you have a problem with what i wrote, perhaps you can explain. i engaged in deliberate overstatement here, obvious the shooters' misogyny connects to things in our culture as we've discussed at great length ITT. but i am more than a little skeptical that this is really //about// misogyny in the same way it is //about// easy access to guns. people kill people with guns, for many reasons (and non-reasons) every day in this country. men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women... not very often. if all it takes to create an elliot rodger is the existence of an aggressively misogynist subculture, then why is this sort of thing so damn rare?
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:16 (nine years ago) link
It's almost as if violence against women was a global phenomenon that happens every single day of the year
― 龜, Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:32 (nine years ago) link
men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women...
So it's only misogyny if the victims are random and it's not if the perpetrator knew the victims beforehand, I get it now
yeah, that was a mistake, phrasing it that way.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:36 (nine years ago) link
i'm arguing on the side of posters i think are dumb, and i'm being argued against by posters i think are smart, so i'm willing to accept that i'm not looking at this the right way.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:39 (nine years ago) link
i wish people would actually argue against me (as 龜 has) rather than just be snarky (like orbit).
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:40 (nine years ago) link
this is ilx 2014
― dn/ac (darraghmac), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:44 (nine years ago) link
ilx has always been like this
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:45 (nine years ago) link
just different trolls once upon a time